A venting...

jillio said:
Oftentimes, Clearsky, these chidlren fall behind with the services provided in the public school system, and then, when they no longwer know what to do, the public school refers to the deaf school. The parents at that point are often unwilling to let go of the oral approach.
Click to expand...

It really makes me wonder if those parents are taking all the responsibility to the school. If they want oral approach, they have to do the work at home. The school is only a tool, but parents have to do their part. Doesn't seem like the school is the problem. It's the parent/s.
 
shel90 said:
They want their kids to have both ASL and spoken English but prefer to have hearing teachers. That's where this vent is coming from. It hurts me when I sit in meetings and to have to hear that plus a lot of other situations that are starting to pop up.
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder why they need hearing teachers, but I would also be concerned as a parent if they also want the oral approach when a deaf teacher doesn't want to teach oral as well. Like how many during the day do you mean you'd contribute to spoken English? I mean, because I understand that oral children need a lot of talking from people to learn speech in various environments. I think if you can come up with a direct question asking them why they want hearing teachers over deaf teachers?
 
I wonder why don't the parents or school set up some kind of speech support thing on the side so they continue to get that input during a critical period, and leave the education itself alone?
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. It's okay if they want the oral approach, but parents have to respect the other side of education. Parents have to do their side of the job. Oral education is ongoing for deaf children.
 
shel90 said:
She interviewed my brother and I for that book. :)

Maybe I should go for my PhD. :hmm:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. :hugs: My heart is for the children first and foremost.
Click to expand...

There you go PhD.

I also was thinking, and it's up to you. Have you taken a time to meet deaf students with CI who are doing really well, and taken the time to observe and ask questions to see what makes them do well vs. the parents that show up at the school bombarded with needing so much help? Maybe you'll find a pattern to support your opinions at those meetings.
 
ClearSky said:
It really makes me wonder if those parents are taking all the responsibility to the school. If they want oral approach, they have to do the work at home. The school is only a tool, but parents have to do their part. Doesn't seem like the school is the problem. It's the parent/s.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, many do take all the responsibility to the school. Unfortunately, I have seen many over the years that want the results without having to put in the effort. It is why I became an advocate.
 
jillio said:
Unfortunately, many do take all the responsibility to the school. Unfortunately, I have seen many over the years that want the results without having to put in the effort. It is why I became an advocate.
Click to expand...

BUT BUT BUT, wasn't it you Jillio who said that it would be better for a child to go to a school that uses ASL and be unable to communicate with their family than to be oral. You can't have it both ways, if you want ASL, that the vast majority of hearing parents will not be skilled enough to particapate in the education of their child.
 
faire_jour said:
BUT BUT BUT, wasn't it you Jillio who said that it would be better for a child to go to a school that uses ASL and be unable to communicate with their family than to be oral. You can't have it both ways, if you want ASL, that the vast majority of hearing parents will not be skilled enough to particapate in the education of their child.
Click to expand...

No, that is not what I said at all. Please indicate the post or posts where I said such.

You are forgetting again that Bi-Bi education uses English and ASL. What would prevent an English speaking parent from participating in thier child's education. ASL is used as the language of instruction in the classroom, and parents do not participate in classroom instruction under any school environment. That is the teacher's job. However, there is nothing to prevent an English speaking parent from participating in their child's education. They simply can't be the classroom teacher.
 
jillio said:
No, that is not what I said at all. Please indicate the post or posts where I said such.

You are forgetting again that Bi-Bi education uses English and ASL. What would prevent an English speaking parent from participating in thier child's education. ASL is used as the language of instruction in the classroom, and parents do not participate in classroom instruction under any school environment. That is the teacher's job. However, there is nothing to prevent an English speaking parent from participating in their child's education. They simply can't be the classroom teacher.
Click to expand...

They can't communicate with the teacher or even their child.
 
faire_jour said:
They can't communicate with the teacher or even their child.
Click to expand...

Yes they can. Deaf teachers communicate with hearing parents all the time. And they use English to do it. And if they can't communicate with their child, shouldn't they be doing something to insure that they can communicate with their child? Children in Bi-Bi programs are not all non-speaking.

You are making some assumptions that just aren't realistic.
 
jillio said:
Children in Bi-Bi programs are not all non-speaking.

You are making some assumptions that just aren't realistic.
Click to expand...

I am speaking specifically about the many deaf of deaf who choose no amplification, speech, or speech reading training.
 
jillio said:
Unfortunately, many do take all the responsibility to the school. Unfortunately, I have seen many over the years that want the results without having to put in the effort. It is why I became an advocate.
Click to expand...


Yes, that's what I thought.
 
I believe the stats are something like 5% of hearing parents learn enough ASL to communicate. You are proposing that ALL deaf children be placed in ASL based educational settings. I think it is a resonable assumption that many parents would be unable to participate in their child's education in that situation.

Oh, and post 785 in "why do adults implant their children" speaks to the idea of deaf children with parents who can't sign. I interpreted that post to mean that it is better to have ASL and no family than.
 
faire_jour said:
I am speaking specifically about the many deaf of deaf who choose no amplification, speech, or speech reading training.
Click to expand...

If the children are deaf of deaf, then the parents are deaf. They would have no problem communicating with an ASL using teacher, or with their signing children.
 
faire_jour said:
I believe the stats are something like 5% of hearing parents learn enough ASL to communicate. You are proposing that ALL deaf children be placed in ASL based educational settings. I think it is a resonable assumption that many parents would be unable to participate in their child's education in that situation.

Oh, and post 785 in "why do adults implant their children" speaks to the idea of deaf children with parents who can't sign. I interpreted that post to mean that it is better to have ASL and no family than.
Click to expand...

Why would they be unable to participate in their child's edcuation? That simply doesn't make sense. Just because ASL is the language of instruction in the classroom does not mean that a non-signing parent cannot participate in their child's education.

I am proposing a Bi-Bi educational environment, not an ASL only environment.

Then your interpretation was incorrect.
 
faire_jour said:
BUT BUT BUT, wasn't it you Jillio who said that it would be better for a child to go to a school that uses ASL and be unable to communicate with their family than to be oral. You can't have it both ways, if you want ASL, that the vast majority of hearing parents will not be skilled enough to particapate in the education of their child.
Click to expand...

They can have it both ways if they put in the effort at home. If you want a deaf school that uses sign language to be full-time service (meaning English speaking all the time and listening) to your deaf child along with oral education, you may not be in the right place. You may have to seek a different school or find a school that has an oral program aside and fully support your child when they aren't in school. I understand some parents become really freaked out and want things to be perfect, so they push the school teachers. Still, they should talk about what they are doing with their deaf child.
 
The statement about deaf of deaf is in regards to parents who limit their deaf children by using only one language. I asked the question as to whether it is limiting to them to choose to use ASL only.
 
ClearSky said:
They can have it both ways if they put in the effort at home. If you want a deaf school that uses sign language to be full-time service (meaning English speaking all the time and listening) to your deaf child along with oral education, you may not be in the right place. You may have to seek a different school or find a school that has an oral program aside and fully support your child when they aren't in school. I understand some parents become really freaked out and want things to be perfect, so they push the school teachers. Still, they should talk about what they are doing with their deaf child.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
faire_jour said:
I believe the stats are something like 5% of hearing parents learn enough ASL to communicate. You are proposing that ALL deaf children be placed in ASL based educational settings. I think it is a resonable assumption that many parents would be unable to participate in their child's education in that situation.

Oh, and post 785 in "why do adults implant their children" speaks to the idea of deaf children with parents who can't sign. I interpreted that post to mean that it is better to have ASL and no family than.
Click to expand...

If 5% of the parents can learn sign fluently, what stops the other 95%?
 
ClearSky said:
They can have it both ways if they put in the effort at home. If you want a deaf school that uses sign language to be full-time service (meaning English speaking all the time and listening) to your deaf child along with oral education, you may not be in the right place. You may have to seek a different school or find a school that has an oral program aside and fully support your child when they aren't in school. I understand some parents become really freaked out and want things to be perfect, so they push the school teachers. Still, they should talk about what they are doing with their deaf child.
Click to expand...

But you still aren't addressing the fact that the VAST majority of hearing parents will never become fluent in ASL. You are asking them to turn over their child's education to you, completly in a language that they don't understand and then complain that they aren't involved enough!
 
faire_jour said:
The statement about deaf of deaf is in regards to parents who limit their deaf children by using only one language. I asked the question as to whether it is limiting to them to choose to use ASL only.
Click to expand...

I don't know any deaf of deaf that use only one language. I do know deaf that don't use spoken language. However, that does not mean that they use only ASL. They use English, as well. Nor do I know any deaf parents that restrict their children to one language only. They send them to school, they invariably learn a second language. English. Just because they choose not to use it in spoken form does not mean that they are monolingual. However, the parent who keeps a child in an oral only environment has indeed restricted the child to one language. Even after learning the language in another mode, such as the written form, it is still only English. One language.
 
Back
Top