Dumb access denial excuses for your service dog

LuvsInk · 02-13-2006, 03:30 AM

I have had some real winners.

1. I have been told that I do not need my dog to hear in a store.
2. Asked if my dog was a blind dog.
3. Told no pets allowed.
4. Door greeters watching me park my car in the handicapped spot and
then ask me upon entering the store if I was blind.
5. See me reading labels and ask me if I was blind, if not I needed to leave.
6. A doctor throwing me out of his office because he was afraid of
dogs.
7. A restuarant threaten to close completely in order to avoid access.

I am just curious as to how many access issues everyone else with service dogs have had and what circumstances and how you handled it. Me personally, we now have the police department educated and I simply go outside, call the police on my sidekick via relay, and let them explain the consequences. I no longer allow myself to be upset by others ignorance of the law. I figure I will fight the good fight for myself and those that can't. I don't take no for an answer no matter how much time it takes and how much it might inconvenience me.

pek1 · 02-13-2006, 06:33 PM

LuvsInk,

First of all, welcome to alldeaf.com!

Secondly, good post!

I was stopped once at a rest area here in Minnesota and was told by the attendant that the dog wasn't necessary inside. I was challenged at a laundramat, the clerk there (young kid) asked, "What about people with allergies?" I replied, "Tough." The clerk during the week, when I came back to do some other work, expressed concern about the little kids. She even mentioned about phoning ahead...to that I replied, "Gee, if I was African-American or another nationality, would I need to do that, too?" I have no reason to worry about little kids, I told her, I worry about the parents...thinking this is a good spot to get my kid bit and sue that bastard with the dog. Then they act all dumb around me (the parents do)...grandparents are just as bad. I've never seen so many old people pointing their fingers at me...using of course, their index fingers...

Reba · 02-13-2006, 06:58 PM

This happened in our local area last week:

Quote:

Judge could be reprimanded for how he treated man in court
Published Saturday February 11 2006
CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) - A North Charleston judge could be reprimanded for how he treated a man who brought his medical service dog to court.
The city of North Charleston is forwarding a copy of the taped incident to the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, and the chided man plans to file a formal complaint against Judge George Epps.

Bob Godfrey, of Hanahan, went to court Wednesday with a Spanish-speaking man he is teaching English in case he needed help in translation. The man faced a noise violation.

Shortly after the case was called, Epps asked Godfrey, "What is that dog in here for?" according to a tape released to The (Charleston) Post and Courier through the Freedom of Information Act.

Godfrey explained the dog, a golden retriever named Jasmine, is a medical assistant.

Due to a vehicle accident in 1989, Godfrey has screws and rods in his back and impaired hearing, and his balance is sometimes unsteady. Jasmine alerts him to high-pitched sounds such as a siren, he said.

"If I fall, he helps me get up," Godfrey said.

Epps responded, "It takes his little hands and helps pick you up. ... What does that dog do besides not supposed to be in this building? ... You ought to know better than to bring a dog into a courtroom. That just really upsets me."

Godfrey apologized and offered to remove the dog. He later said he knew federal law allowed the medical dog to be there, but he didn't want Epps to find him in contempt.

"He absolutely berated me and made me feel like a piece of white dirt," he said. "I can be pretty understanding, but I don't think anybody should be subjected to that kind of attitude and belittlement and embarrassment."

North Charleston City Council, which appointed Epps, held a 20-minute closed-door meeting Thursday to talk about the incident. In open session, Mayor Keith Summey said a copy of the tape would go to the state commission, which reviews allegations against judges and makes recommendations to the state Supreme Court.

---
Information from: The Post and Courier, http://www.charleston.net

Cousin Vinny · 02-13-2006, 07:46 PM

Don't get me wrong; I believe the service animal provision of the ADA in Title III is correctly written, should be strongly enforced, and should not be revised, abolished, or curtailed in the future.

However, for Deaf people, what is the utility in bringing a service animal with you, say, at the restaurant? Convenience store? Attending a function? I can easily see why many Deaf people would opt for a service animal in their homes to alert them to sounds, intruders. (I have a dog myself, just for this purpose.) But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

gnarlydorkette · 02-13-2006, 08:28 PM

I am not sure if all hearing dogs are trained to bark whenever the owner's name is called-- my friend's does-- so for her to take the service dog to her school, a restaurant (when you have to wait for your turn to have a table), and whatnot will be useful when people is calling her name out, unaware that she is Deaf.

farmerjoe · 02-13-2006, 09:12 PM

I guess it would be great if I dog could tell me when some one called my name at a drs office or airport .. or something.. but uh what good does it do if the dog barks? Sure I would recognise the bark a lot more easily than a voice of a PA system, but ... there's something ironic about a dog for deaf people that barks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnarlydorkette

I am not sure if all hearing dogs are trained to bark whenever the owner's name is called-- my friend's does-- so for her to take the service dog to her school, a restaurant (when you have to wait for your turn to have a table), and whatnot will be useful when people is calling her name out, unaware that she is Deaf.

gnarlydorkette · 02-13-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerjoe

I guess it would be great if I dog could tell me when some one called my name at a drs office or airport .. or something.. but uh what good does it do if the dog barks? Sure I would recognise the bark a lot more easily than a voice of a PA system, but ... there's something ironic about a dog for deaf people that barks.

You will know when a dog barks if you look at it. I mean, to bark is to open their mouth...
Otherwise, if a Deaf person happens to not pay any attention to the service dog, the service dog will tug for attention. I will know when my dog barks, especially with a leash on because I can feel the vibration via the leash. (and it is not a service dog...)
They are trained to acknowledge when their Deaf owner isn't looking and how they can get their attention.

Tug on pants, touch on the owner's legs with their paws, jump up on the legs, et cetera...

PRETTY COOL, EH?

LuvsInk · 02-14-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyeth

Don't get me wrong; I believe the service animal provision of the ADA in Title III is correctly written, should be strongly enforced, and should not be revised, abolished, or curtailed in the future.

However, for Deaf people, what is the utility in bringing a service animal with you, say, at the restaurant? Convenience store? Attending a function? I can easily see why many Deaf people would opt for a service animal in their homes to alert them to sounds, intruders. (I have a dog myself, just for this purpose.) But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

Because being a woman alone I would like to know that no one is going to sneak up on me in public. Many women have been abducted from just such places, especially parking lots. How about if I drop my keys, my dog alerts me to that. The actual definition of any service dog is "an animal trained to mitigate an individuals disability". Mine is just different from yours is all.

LuvsInk · 02-14-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerjoe

I guess it would be great if I dog could tell me when some one called my name at a drs office or airport .. or something.. but uh what good does it do if the dog barks? Sure I would recognise the bark a lot more easily than a voice of a PA system, but ... there's something ironic about a dog for deaf people that barks.

My dog is trained to nudge my hand and I know to look up and around and follow the direction of his gaze.

EyesBlueDeaf · 02-14-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvsInk

I have had some real winners.

1. I have been told that I do not need my dog to hear in a store.
2. Asked if my dog was a blind dog.
3. Told no pets allowed.
4. Door greeters watching me park my car in the handicapped spot and then ask me upon entering the store if I was blind.
5. See me reading labels and ask me if I was blind, if not I needed to leave.
6. A doctor throwing me out of his office because he was afraid of
dogs.
7. A restuarant threaten to close completely in order to avoid access.

I am just curious as to how many access issues everyone else with service dogs have had and what circumstances and how you handled it. Me personally, we now have the police department educated and I simply go outside, call the police on my sidekick via relay, and let them explain the consequences. I no longer allow myself to be upset by others ignorance of the law. I figure I will fight the good fight for myself and those that can't. I don't take no for an answer no matter how much time it takes and how much it might inconvenience me.

Umm.. for number 4 - you parked in the handicapped space because you are deaf? or is it because you have walking difficulities. JUST CURIOUS.

02-14-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesBlueDeaf

Umm.. for number 4 - you parked in the handicapped space because you are deaf? or is it because you have walking difficulities. JUST CURIOUS.

I was going to post. But yes, I wonder about it.

Deaf individual may have another disablities, such as heart condition.

Why is the big deal if deaf customer walks around in the big "Walmart" shopping zone. I am sure that it is a bit farther than the distance between handicapped parking zone and front door. Oh boy...

Quote:

A doctor throwing me out of his office because he was afraid of
dogs.

Any person have right to refuse any service dog into the private/commerical office becasue of allegeric, phobias, etc. If a person with service dog sues against the doctor, the doctor can easily win in court room because of panic attack disorder. Moreover, the plaintiff would have to pay to defendant(s) the cleaning bill plus attonery fee and court fee.

Can you imagine ADA person vs. ADA person....

Nesmuth · 02-14-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyeth

But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

I seen Mark Sullivan from California Association of the Deaf bring his hearing dog with him many time everywhere he goes especially SCRAD-OC pizza places.

And a known deaf actress bringing her 3 chihuahuas with her wherever she went.

With the majority of the ASL extremists worshiping them and kissing the ground these 2 people walk on, we should be following their examples and bring our hearing dogs everwhere we go as they are our ears just like the guide dogs are the eyes for the blind.

Richard

EyesBlueDeaf · 02-14-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyeth

Don't get me wrong; I believe the service animal provision of the ADA in Title III is correctly written, should be strongly enforced, and should not be revised, abolished, or curtailed in the future.

However, for Deaf people, what is the utility in bringing a service animal with you, say, at the restaurant? Convenience store? Attending a function? I can easily see why many Deaf people would opt for a service animal in their homes to alert them to sounds, intruders. (I have a dog myself, just for this purpose.) But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

Ah, I thought I was the only person for thinking that.. Please don't get me wrong, too. I'm Deaf (Capital D).. I cannot see why you have to drag your hearing dog everywhere you go.. I think the hearing dog would be better if left at home and be used for protection, noticer, etc...
I think that it's a wee bit excessive to bring your hearing dog to a restaurant, movies, workshop, church, etc. Now I will sit back and wait to get

LMM · 02-14-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

However, for Deaf people, what is the utility in bringing a service animal with you, say, at the restaurant? Convenience store? Attending a function? I can easily see why many Deaf people would opt for a service animal in their homes to alert them to sounds, intruders. (I have a dog myself, just for this purpose.) But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

For LMM she takes her service dog, Where ever she go. Before she recived her comb- service dog. She was in a brutal arm robbery. It happen durning broad daylight, She never hear the men come up from behind her. They had guns. Which one did use on her, Cuz they didn't understand she was Deaf.
They did catch they guys, yes they get time fines... Now she had her service dog, They shot dog they be facing more then just time fines. When you shot hurt service dog same as when you shot police dog, They are all working dogs. The prosecution is stiff ! They have no marcy on people who hurt our working dog!
The only time LMM dog barks in home at intruders! Or if she out in public and her dog feels a treat. LMM can tell her bark on command. Which is a sign she uses!
Since LMM & her dog have be team, She feel more save in public!If she is walking someone calls her name, Her dog will stop sit and look at the way person calling her name! If she is sitting at resturant waiting for them to call her name her dog will paw her take her to person!
her dog have had prowerful training, & they both stay in training everyday.
to see her dog learn new signs from her is amazing.
Yes LMM had to make out more police reports then most people, I have been w/her when she had to have police straight out people about her rights! She have no fear. LMM use to sit back let people take advation of her! She is a stronger person because of her dog! She is very greatful to have her dog teach her more then anyone could of!
Believe me when comes to service dogs & rights even if other person think they are right, You better take another shot at it!

J · 02-14-2006, 01:26 PM

Lets face it, there are always going to be jerks and idiots out there, that refuse to let you do such and such.

Most don't even care if you're deaf or whatnots, they just boss you around and tell you what you can and cant do in their place. They don't listen to reason, and ignore you at some point.

There's nothing we can do about this, in reality. I mean, it just like racism, we can't do anything about that. Everyone has their opnions, just some choose to voice it, and act it.

Unfortunately, they happen to have a bad opinion and it can be hurtful and so on.

Life's not perfect, and it never will be.

pek1 · 02-14-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesmuth

I seen Mark Sullivan from California Association of the Deaf bring his hearing dog with him many time everywhere he goes especially SCRAD-OC pizza places.

And a known deaf actress bringing her 3 chihuahuas with her wherever she went.

With the majority of the ASL extremists worshiping them and kissing the ground these 2 people walk on, we should be following their examples and bring our hearing dogs everwhere we go as they are our ears just like the guide dogs are the eyes for the blind.

Richard

Richard,

You knew I was going to jump on this...do you have more information on this, not only to post but to pm me with? Thanks in advance!!

pek1 · 02-14-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [COLOR=Sienna

gnarlydorkette[/COLOR]]You will know when a dog barks if you look at it. I mean, to bark is to open their mouth...
Otherwise, if a Deaf person happens to not pay any attention to the service dog, the service dog will tug for attention. I will know when my dog barks, especially with a leash on because I can feel the vibration via the leash. (and it is not a service dog...)
They are trained to acknowledge when their Deaf owner isn't looking and how they can get their attention.

Tug on pants, touch on the owner's legs with their paws, jump up on the legs, et cetera...

PRETTY COOL, EH?

gnarlydorkette,

You made my day!!

This is precisely what Snickers does for me!!

pek1 · 02-14-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

This happened in our local area last week:

Reba,

A few thoughts entered my mind and I will be nice (promise). First, this judge needs to be retired or retrained, especially in ADA laws. Isn't this what he trained to do when in law school, to uphold laws?

Perhaps he was out ill when they covered that.

Second, I'd suggest a lawsuit against both the judge AND the county and fine him a hefty amount. This is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard!!

I'd like to see him squirm out of this one and claim something as ludacrous as "judicial priviledge."

Reba · 02-14-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

Reba,

A few thoughts entered my mind and I will be nice (promise). First, this judge needs to be retired or retrained, especially in ADA laws. Isn't this what he trained to do when in law school, to uphold laws?

Perhaps he was out ill when they covered that.

Second, I'd suggest a lawsuit against both the judge AND the county and fine him a hefty amount. This is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard!!

I'd like to see him squirm out of this one and claim something as ludacrous as "judicial priviledge."

Don't worry; he is in big trouble in our community. There are other complaints against him, and he is being investigated. It is "hot" news here.

02-14-2006, 03:17 PM

I bet Reba and Pek1 never thought of the lawsuit case: ADA person vs. ADA person. how will the judge make a decision?

pek1 · 02-14-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mookie

I bet Reba and Pek1 never thought of the lawsuit case: ADA person vs. ADA person. how will the judge make a decision?

Maybe by playing Texas Hold 'Em?

pek1 · 02-14-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Don't worry; he is in big trouble in our community. There are other complaints against him, and he is being investigated. It is "hot" news here.

Hope this goes on National news.

Reba · 02-14-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mookie

I bet Reba and Pek1 never thought of the lawsuit case: ADA person vs. ADA person. how will the judge make a decision?

Actually, I have thought about that before. I'm afraid it will come to a point when litigants will be arguing, "my disability is worse than your disability". Whose "disability" will take precidence?

I think some people may have to learn the meaning of some "C" words:

communication
compromise
consideration of others
common sense

Taylor · 02-14-2006, 04:06 PM

I really do not mean to make light of the situation, but I couldn't help but laugh at these two:

Quote:

4. Door greeters watching me park my car in the handicapped spot and
then ask me upon entering the store if I was blind.
5. See me reading labels and ask me if I was blind, if not I needed to leave.

What the heck happened to common sense?

LuvsInk · 02-15-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesBlueDeaf

Umm.. for number 4 - you parked in the handicapped space because you are deaf? or is it because you have walking difficulities. JUST CURIOUS.

I have mobility problems as well. My service dog doesn't just alert me. He keeps me from falling down and helps me get up if I do. The handicapped plaque is for the walking problems.

LuvsInk · 02-15-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mookie

I was going to post. But yes, I wonder about it.

Deaf individual may have another disablities, such as heart condition.

Why is the big deal if deaf customer walks around in the big "Walmart" shopping zone. I am sure that it is a bit farther than the distance between handicapped parking zone and front door. Oh boy...

Any person have right to refuse any service dog into the private/commerical office becasue of allegeric, phobias, etc. If a person with service dog sues against the doctor, the doctor can easily win in court room because of panic attack disorder. Moreover, the plaintiff would have to pay to defendant(s) the cleaning bill plus attonery fee and court fee.

Can you imagine ADA person vs. ADA person....

Where did you get this information from? If someone states they have an allergy the allergy has to be life threatening and documented by a doctor. If someone states they have phobia, which also has to be documented, then I can be asked to enter by a different door and I should and would be happy to enter via a different door. Otherwise just anyone could use those as excuses to deny access. As to cleaning bill, I have no idea what you mean by that. I am responsible for any mess my service dog makes but my dog is well trained. But even the best of trained service dogs can have an accident and I carry with me at all times items to remedy that should it occur. Any medical excuse that anyone uses has to be documented just like mine should it end up in court, which it wouldn't if they can't prove it.

Angel · 02-15-2006, 12:24 AM

I don't see a problem with people who bring their service dogs everywhere they go....

If they need those service dogs to help them, then let them take them, I don't think its right for someone to say why or how come?....It's printed very clearly in the ADA laws and they have a right to bring their service dogs with them period....

Second, if someone has a handicapped sticker or sign on their mirror, then that's their business, I dont believe it someone's place to ask such a question of why.....As long they have a sticker to prove they are allow to park on the handicapped spot then it shouldn't matter what you see or think of that person....

I don't even ask such a question when it's none of my business....

EyesBlueDeaf · 02-15-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^Angel^

I don't see a problem with people who bring their service dogs everywhere they go....

If they need those service dogs to help them, then let them take them, I don't think its right for someone to say why or how come?....It's printed very clearly in the ADA laws and they have a right to bring their service dogs with them period....

Second, if someone has a handicapped sticker or sign on their mirror, then that's their business, I dont believe it someone's place to ask such a question of why.....As long they have a sticker to prove they are allow to park on the handicapped spot then it shouldn't matter what you see or think of that person....

I don't even ask such a question when it's none of my business....

What about the hearing dog - I still don't see why Deaf people have to drag them along everywhere they go.

02-15-2006, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesBlueDeaf

What about the hearing dog - I still don't see why Deaf people have to drag them along everywhere they go.

Yeah, Everyone does that. Even my old deaf roommate always brought his dog to public as long as it had good manners. He ordered a Hearing Dog vest. Yeah, it is also deaf...

02-15-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuvsInk

Where did you get this information from? If someone states they have an allergy the allergy has to be life threatening and documented by a doctor. If someone states they have phobia, which also has to be documented, then I can be asked to enter by a different door and I should and would be happy to enter via a different door. Otherwise just anyone could use those as excuses to deny access. As to cleaning bill, I have no idea what you mean by that. I am responsible for any mess my service dog makes but my dog is well trained. But even the best of trained service dogs can have an accident and I carry with me at all times items to remedy that should it occur. Any medical excuse that anyone uses has to be documented just like mine should it end up in court, which it wouldn't if they can't prove it.

Just my theory.

Give me you location and I will search a business owner who has a phobia to dog or panic attack disorder. Would you be first volunteer to be ready for real ADA vs. ADA case in court?

02-13-2006, 03:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
LuvsInk LuvsInk Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 75	Dumb access denial excuses for your service dog I have had some real winners. 1. I have been told that I do not need my dog to hear in a store. 2. Asked if my dog was a blind dog. 3. Told no pets allowed. 4. Door greeters watching me park my car in the handicapped spot and then ask me upon entering the store if I was blind. 5. See me reading labels and ask me if I was blind, if not I needed to leave. 6. A doctor throwing me out of his office because he was afraid of dogs. 7. A restuarant threaten to close completely in order to avoid access. I am just curious as to how many access issues everyone else with service dogs have had and what circumstances and how you handled it. Me personally, we now have the police department educated and I simply go outside, call the police on my sidekick via relay, and let them explain the consequences. I no longer allow myself to be upset by others ignorance of the law. I figure I will fight the good fight for myself and those that can't. I don't take no for an answer no matter how much time it takes and how much it might inconvenience me.

02-13-2006, 06:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
pek1 Journalist. Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: When I survey the wondrous Cross . . . Posts: 3,963	LuvsInk, First of all, welcome to alldeaf.com! Secondly, good post! I was stopped once at a rest area here in Minnesota and was told by the attendant that the dog wasn't necessary inside. I was challenged at a laundramat, the clerk there (young kid) asked, "What about people with allergies?" I replied, "Tough." The clerk during the week, when I came back to do some other work, expressed concern about the little kids. She even mentioned about phoning ahead...to that I replied, "Gee, if I was African-American or another nationality, would I need to do that, too?" I have no reason to worry about little kids, I told her, I worry about the parents...thinking this is a good spot to get my kid bit and sue that bastard with the dog. Then they act all dumb around me (the parents do)...grandparents are just as bad. I've never seen so many old people pointing their fingers at me...using of course, their index fingers... __________________ Pete

02-15-2006, 12:24 AM	#27 (permalink)
Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 19,089	I don't see a problem with people who bring their service dogs everywhere they go.... If they need those service dogs to help them, then let them take them, I don't think its right for someone to say why or how come?....It's printed very clearly in the ADA laws and they have a right to bring their service dogs with them period.... Second, if someone has a handicapped sticker or sign on their mirror, then that's their business, I dont believe it someone's place to ask such a question of why.....As long they have a sticker to prove they are allow to park on the handicapped spot then it shouldn't matter what you see or think of that person.... I don't even ask such a question when it's none of my business.... __________________ "When we do the best we can, we never know what miracle is brought in our life, OR in the life of another." ~ Helen Keller

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02-13-2006, 07:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cousin Vinny Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 693	Don't get me wrong; I believe the service animal provision of the ADA in Title III is correctly written, should be strongly enforced, and should not be revised, abolished, or curtailed in the future. However, for Deaf people, what is the utility in bringing a service animal with you, say, at the restaurant? Convenience store? Attending a function? I can easily see why many Deaf people would opt for a service animal in their homes to alert them to sounds, intruders. (I have a dog myself, just for this purpose.) But taking the service animal with you everywhere you go, this is where I'm not 'getting' it.

02-13-2006, 08:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
gnarlydorkette is leaving for good. Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,764	I am not sure if all hearing dogs are trained to bark whenever the owner's name is called-- my friend's does-- so for her to take the service dog to her school, a restaurant (when you have to wait for your turn to have a table), and whatnot will be useful when people is calling her name out, unaware that she is Deaf.

02-14-2006, 01:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
J Seize the Day! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I live in Devon..exactly where I live? Don't be so nosey! Posts: 28	Lets face it, there are always going to be jerks and idiots out there, that refuse to let you do such and such. Most don't even care if you're deaf or whatnots, they just boss you around and tell you what you can and cant do in their place. They don't listen to reason, and ignore you at some point. There's nothing we can do about this, in reality. I mean, it just like racism, we can't do anything about that. Everyone has their opnions, just some choose to voice it, and act it. Unfortunately, they happen to have a bad opinion and it can be hurtful and so on. Life's not perfect, and it never will be.

02-14-2006, 03:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
Mookie Guest Posts: n/a	I bet Reba and Pek1 never thought of the lawsuit case: ADA person vs. ADA person. how will the judge make a decision?