Fireman Suspended Over US Flag Decal

Status
Not open for further replies.
Maria

Maria

Active Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
10,305
Reaction score
0
Fireman Suspended Over US Flag Decal
posted: 40 MINUTES AGOcomments: 168filed under: National News

(Oct. 17) -- A Pennsylvania firefighter who put an American flag sticker on the front of his locker has been suspended without pay for refusing to take the Old Glory decal down.
James Krapf, along with nearly a dozen other Chester, Pa. firefighters, were ordered to remove personal items from the outside of their lockers -- a violation of department policy, MyFoxPhilly.com reported.
Krapf refused to do so and the department suspended him Thursday. So far, he's the only one on forced leave.
"I shouldn't have to remove the flag of the country I believe in. I love my country," Krapf told the Fox affiliate.
The department directed firefighters to keep the outside of their lockers undecorated after some employees took offense to a racially-motivated cartoon posted last summer.
Department officials told The Philadelphia Inquirer that banning any decor from lockers was the only way to prevent fighting among employees.
"The directive says 'everything,' " Capt. John Barbato, vice president of the department's union, told the newspaper. "I never would've thought the American flag would be included in that."


http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news...uspended_Over_American_Flag_Sticker_On_Locker

I would do the same like this firefighter. I will refuse to take it down. I support my country.
 
It's a zero-tolerance policy in this case. If you allow one thing, then people will try to subvert the rules by putting offensive things under a guise.

I don't agree with it, but I can see the logic behind it.
 
rule's simple - no decor on locker - including everything. what's so hard? it does not matter what decor you're using - American flag, the Constitution, Obama, GWB, "Support Our Troop" ribbon, your family portrait, etc.

learn how to follow the simple rule and everything will be ok. you are not above the law. you are not exempted from the law. rule's rule. I support officials' decision to suspend him.

if you hate this rule - blame it on idiots who ruined it for everybody by posting offensive material
 
Very simple, really. Follow the rules, and you won't get suspended.
 
Note the news source, and it all becomes clearer...
 
Maria said:
"I shouldn't have to remove the flag of the country I believe in. I love my country,"
Well, the other firefighters might have something they believe in, but they followed orders. Maybe they had breast cancer ribbons, support our troops, etc, Where do you draw the line? The supervisor drew the line with the word everything.

"The directive says 'everything,' " Capt. John Barbato, vice president of the department's union, told the newspaper. "I never would've thought the American flag would be included in that."
What part of everything excludes the American Flag?

I would do the same like this firefighter. I will refuse to take it down. I support my country.
Click to expand...
There are other ways to show your support. Putting a decal on your locker, in violation of mandated rules, looks like insubordination to me. BTW, where was the decal made, China?
 
saywhatkid said:
There are other ways to show your support. Putting a decal on your locker, in violation of mandated rules, looks like insubordination to me. BTW, where was the decal made, China?
Click to expand...

Well, if they violate it and want to take it down -- then wouldn't you think it is okay to burn the USA flag down in despite if, people support/believe in their country ? USA flag is STILL the same image as decal, no matter where the decal was made from.
 
souggy said:
It's a zero-tolerance policy in this case. If you allow one thing, then people will try to subvert the rules by putting offensive things under a guise.
I don't agree with it, but I can see the logic behind it.
Click to expand...

Well, this is America. I still protest.
 
Maria said:
Well, if they violate it and want to take it down -- then wouldn't you think it is okay to burn the USA flag down in despite if, people support/believe in their country ? USA flag is STILL the same image as decal, no matter where the decal was made from.
Click to expand...
There are two different issues here. First, about following the instructions of your supervisor. Second, defacing the flag. They are not telling him to deface the flag. They are telling him to move it to a different location. Big difference.

People need to respect their managers. My supervisors have made me do things I felt were stupid, but I did them out of respect for the supervisor. If somebody wanted to stick a flag decal over the windshield of a school bus, I would insist on that person removing that flag decal. This is much different from the firefighter thing, but you see where I am going. That location is not allowed by rules.

The firefighter can cover the entire length of their personal vehicle with decals. There is none allowed on the locker at work. It is about flexing their personal wishes into their work. Imagine if there was a good old boy from Georgia, one that wanted to post his Confederate flag on his locker, right next to an African-American's locker. It is about that person's beliefs. That good old boy might feel just as strongly about his choice as the Old Glory guy.

I can already see the lawyers lining up for this one....
 
Note the part where it said "decal" or "sticker". Stickers can be tricky to remove from the front of the lockers.

The only reason why they're making a big deal out of it is because it is the... *gasp* American flag!
 
Minnesota Law requires

Minnesota has a law requiring all US flags sold here must be made in the USA. And I say well done on this law!
Source: Laws Require Flags to Be Born in USA
BRIAN BAKST | July 3, 2007 11:03 PM EST |

ROSEMOUNT, Minn. — What's red, white and blue _ and made in China? A move is on in state legislatures to ensure that the flags folks will be flying and buying this Independence Day were made on this fruited plain.

Minnesota has passed the strongest measure, a new law that goes into effect at year's end requiring every Old Glory sold in state stores to be domestically produced. Violations are a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail.

In Arizona, schools and public colleges were required starting July 1 to outfit every classroom from junior high up with a made-in-the-USA flag. Tennessee requires all U.S. flags bought via state contract to be made here, and similar bills are moving forward in both New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

The Fourth of July is considered peak season for flag sales with millions of them lining parade routes and flying above back yard barbecues.

Most of the major domestic flag makers are privately held companies that don't release their sales figures, so it's difficult to gauge the inroads being made by foreign manufacturers.

The U.S. Census bureau estimates that $5.3 million worth of U.S. flags were imported from other countries in 2006, mostly from China. That figure has been steady over the past few years. The big exception was in 2001 when $51.7 million in U.S. flags were brought into the country, most on the heels of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Sandy Van Leiu, chairman of the Flag Manufacturers Association of America, said the imports are cause for concern even though U.S. companies still dominate the flag market.

"That door is going to keep opening," said Van Leiu, a sixth-generation executive at the family owned Annin & Co., a 160-year-old business that supplies retailers like Wal-Mart. "It starts small, then it gets big. You're just opening Pandora's box."

To help consumers identify the origin of their flags, the association created a certification program two years ago that bestows a seal-of-approval logo to flags made with domestic fibers and labor.

Whether Minnesota's law violates international trade agreements _ and whether anything would be done about it _ is an open question.

Under World Trade Organization standards, the U.S. government can't treat foreign products less favorably than those produced within its boundaries, said Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland and the former chief economist for the U.S. International Trade Commission. How the rules apply to states is debatable, he said.

Morici said a foreign business harmed by the law would have to get its government to take action against the U.S. government. Robert Litan, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution think tank, said while the likelihood of Minnesota's law sparking a dispute is slim, the symbolic message is hard to miss.

"It's symptomatic of an anti-foreign bias moving through the country right now. It would not surprise me if other states copied it," Litan said. "It's hard to oppose politically."

When the bill was debated this spring, some legislators argued it sent the wrong message to close Minnesota's borders to foreign-produced flags.

"That flag should be made throughout the world because it is our message to the world that there is hope for freedom and justice," Republican Rep. Dan Severson said at the time.

The law's sponsor, Democratic Rep. Tom Rukavina, said the flag deserves extra protection. To celebrate his legislative victory, he plans to hand out 1,000 miniature flags at Fourth of July parades in his district.

"The biggest honor that you can give the flag is that it be made by American workers in the United States of America," he said. "Nothing is more embarrassing to me than a plastic flag made in China. This replica of freedom we so respect should be made in this country."

The new law doesn't spell out a penalty for violators. In Minnesota, the default punishment for prohibited acts is a misdemeanor offense, carrying up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail.

 
Banjo said:
Note the part where it said "decal" or "sticker". Stickers can be tricky to remove from the front of the lockers.

The only reason why they're making a big deal out of it is because it is the... *gasp* American flag!
Click to expand...
Yes, and about "How the big government is persecuting all the patriotic citizens from showing how they feel." Toss that into the same bin with Wal-mart not allowed to use the term "Merry Christmas" but instead "Happy Holidays" forcing all those God-fearing Christians to keep their religion to themselves. Mom was very bitter about this. She was a greeter at the big W, and that rule nearly angered the Catholicism out of her. "Too bad for all the Jewish, Muslims, and the rest. This is America, and we worship Christ here! You either go along, or go to heck!" Yes Mom was spunky.
 
Last edited:
The Supreme Court held that flag burning was protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution in Texas v. Johnson. Yes, you may burn a flag.

The rule here is simple. No stickers. No football team emblems, University stickers, funny bumper stickers, rock group stickers or flag decals. The supervisors are trying to maintain a professional atmosphere. The fire house is not a high school locker room or a dorm room. The supervisors more important things to do than monitor what stickers are decorating the fire station. It's really a non-issue.
 
Maria said:
Well, if they violate it and want to take it down -- then wouldn't you think it is okay to burn the USA flag down in despite if, people support/believe in their country ? USA flag is STILL the same image as decal, no matter where the decal was made from.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but burning flag and forbidding decor on locker are not the same thing. This has nothing to do with free speech. The rule says NO DECOR ON LOCKER. You can put a sticker INSIDE the locker or wear American tshirt if you want to but NO DECOR ON LOCKER DOOR.

do you remember how Wal-Mart employees dress? they wear blue vest over their shirts. That is the Wal-Mart dressing code for employees. So what would you do as a manager if the employee decides to wear a tshirt with American flag on it over blue vest? Would you suspend him for not adhering to dressing code?
 
Maria said:
What's wrong with Fox News, if you had a problem with it ?
Click to expand...

What isn't wrong with Fox News? I think we have all listed any number of things wrong with Fox News.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top