Do we need hearing teachers in deaf ed at all?

[jillio]

hi guys, great thread by the way... I'm sorry I don't write to much because I'm still learning about Deaf Culture and education. For me it is very interesting all the things that you say because my goal is to become someday teacher for deaf kids... I am hearing and english is not my first language, I'm in my second month learning ASL. Eventhough I am a preschool teacher with almost 10 years of experience, I believe I have to learn much more about deaf ed. and how to become the best teacher I can... keep going with this kind of threads, It is very helpfull!!

Glad you are finding it helpful, Juana29.

 

[web730]

Had several hearing teachers who were great deaf ed teachers but certainly not many of them... about half of them were forced to leave the jobs due to their lack of ASL abilities back then (think it happened back in early 90s). Only several hearing teachers (most good ones who knew ASL well) stayed on.

There were roughly about 65% hearing and 35% deaf teachers at ISD in early '80s, but I was told that there are mere like 80% deaf teachers at my school by now. hmm

I'm not sure about FSDB yet but will ask around... but recalled while visiting there few times and noticed quite numbers of deaf teachers there. However, they do have 700 employees there. lol

There will be always some hearing deaf ed teachers around for next 20 years, I'm sure. We do need them otherwise.

 

[flip]

I am asking this to understand it better: Are you saying deaf teachers should teach ASL and related subject, or are you saying all teachers should be deaf regardless of the subject?

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I was thinking about regardless the subject.

 

[flip]

I will have to ask my friend for that research so we can see what the reasons were..BTW..my friend who did the research is a hearing Deaf ed teacher and she even agreed with that research. Dang!

Wow, allways impressing when people manages to take the perspective of different ways of thinking. They open windows for the rest of us, at least me!

 

[flip]

Seeing it from a different perspective than the deaf, even though they are fluent in ASL. It is language combined with the experience of having been a deaf child.

Sounds plausible. A hearing person would perhaps need some extra skills to see the different perspective, while a deaf don't. Perhaps it's the same way around, too. A deaf person needs extra skills to understand the hearing perspective?

 

[flip]

What about deaf people who grew up oral or mainstreamed? They don't have the collective experience of a Deaf school, should they be disallowed as well? What about CI users? Late deafened?

I am not talking about "disallowing" specific people to work as teachers, but aren't it much more effective to use as much as possible deaf people in deaf ed, reducing the risk of misunderstanding and lack of progress in students, with the cultural difference in mind?

I know deaf CI'ers that are more hardcore deafmute than I am, so I wouldn't dream of measuring a person by CI status. CI or not seems to be more of a concern in the health service and parents. As for late deafened, it would depend how late they got deaf, if their mind have been assimilated into the asl community or other deaf community, and if they are able to understand other deaf people as whole humans.

 

[jillio]

Sounds plausible. A hearing person would perhaps need some extra skills to see the different perspective, while a deaf don't. Perhaps it's the same way around, too. A deaf person needs extra skills to understand the hearing perspective?

Yeah, it would work in the reverse. The thing is, no one knows exactly what it is to be a deaf child except a deaf adult who grew up as one. They see things in other deaf children that they experienced themselves, and so they recognize them right away.

That was the principle I was operating on when I went into the Deaf community as asked, "Will you tell me what it is to be a deaf child? I was a hearing child, so I don't know, and I want to know what my son is experiencing from his perspective."

 

[flip]

I just need to clarify. When you say Deaf Education, are we talking about classes that are taught in ASL only? I don't see the need for hearing people for this. I understand the concept of BiBi but am not sure about the specifications of it, as in is Biology in high school taught in ASL only and there is a class solely for speech therapy? I don't think it's possible for a deaf person to be a speech therapist or at least if the job involves correcting the speech, unless I'm missing something.

HOWEVER, I don't think it is wise to automatically dismiss a potential teacher based on the fact they can hear, because you are reducing the pool of people for Deaf Education. Deaf people are STILL a minority, so if they hire deaf people only, doesn't that reduce options?

I was thinking about all education, all classes, not ASL only. For speech it would be natural with a hearing therapist, but that person does not need to be a teacher, just expert in speech training?

You can create a insanely big pool, with billions of people to work in deaf ed, but with the culture and language in mind, I am askin if this pool isn't getting pretty small if you don't want to waste time finding the best teacher. If culture and language plays a big role in education, would it be sufficent to fill this pool to deaf people only to get satisifying results. Would it matter if we filled this pool with hearing teachers too, or not? WOuld results perhaps been better if this pool only was filled with deaf teachers, as risks was reduced? This is perhaps not possible due to the small numbers of deaf teachers some places, so this is also a hypothetical question.

 

[flip]

Yeah, it would work in the reverse. The thing is, no one knows exactly what it is to be a deaf child except a deaf adult who grew up as one. They see things in other deaf children that they experienced themselves, and so they recognize them right away.

That was the principle I was operating on when I went into the Deaf community as asked, "Will you tell me what it is to be a deaf child? I was a hearing child, so I don't know, and I want to know what my son is experiencing from his perspective."

Impressive.. I belive this is the easiest way for parents and children. Too sad many parents feels ASL and the deaf culture is a threat to their bonds to the child. Let the child go, and they will come back!

 

[flip]

Deaf teachers seems to be able to take larger classes than hearing teachers in average? From the perspective from a superident, more deaf teachers would probably free more money in the budget to employ the best teachers and speech therapists available?

 

[shel90]

Impressive.. I belive this is the easiest way for parents and children. Too sad many parents feels ASL and the deaf culture is a threat to their bonds to the child. Let the child go, and they will come back!

I agree! It usually does the opposite.

 

[Buffalo]

Sounds plausible. A hearing person would perhaps need some extra skills to see the different perspective, while a deaf don't. Perhaps it's the same way around, too. A deaf person needs extra skills to understand the hearing perspective?

That would explains why I tend to break up with deaf boyfriends while hearing boyfriends break up with me.

 

[Buffalo]

I am reading a book about cultural differences, and it hit me that the biggest difference between a hearing and deaf teacher is what culture they belong to. Hearing people can become fluent in ASL, but they are still part of the american culture. Deaf teachers often belong to the deaf culture. Cultures have different ways to get to a conclusion. The mind simply works different in people belonging to different cultures, though results are the same. Everything from logical thinking, identy and understanding of time is different from culture to culture. The american mainstream culture is a "I do not belong to a culture, I am indepedent, what happens in the future?" culture, for example.

The nature of ASL and how content is expressed are influencing the deaf culture. With this is mind, wouldn't a teacher who do not understand how to make statements in the deaf way, and randomly gets puzzled at how students expresses themselves, have a big disability in educational settings? Deaf teachers would be superior?

The only thing I can think of where it requires a hearing teacher is a speech therapist. I don't mind hearing teachers as long as 1) they are very very good at ASL, 2) know the subject they are teaching quite well, 3) and NOT paternalistic. I would love to see more deaf teachers because they can be good role models for the kids. When the deaf kids see deaf teachers, they would know immediately that they, too, can achieve something better than menial jobs or dead-end jobs.

 

[Buffalo]

Impressive.. I belive this is the easiest way for parents and children. Too sad many parents feels ASL and the deaf culture is a threat to their bonds to the child. Let the child go, and they will come back!

I agree, I agree. Oralism has done some serious damage to family relationships, in my opinion. It also make a deaf child feel so alienated. I know that because I really do feel isolated in the sea of non-signers.

 

[jillio]

Impressive.. I belive this is the easiest way for parents and children. Too sad many parents feels ASL and the deaf culture is a threat to their bonds to the child. Let the child go, and they will come back!

Exactly. It has actually increased the bond between my son and I. Mutual understanding.

 

[AlleyCat]

Exactly. It has actually increased the bond between my son and I. Mutual understanding.

Couldn't agree more. If I had any children, I would teach them to sign fluently, whether they were deaf or hearing. (I know the roles are reversed with your example, but I'm speaking of the bond.)

 

[jillio]

Couldn't agree more. If I had any children, I would teach them to sign fluently, whether they were deaf or hearing. (I know the roles are reversed with your example, but I'm speaking of the bond.)

Reversal of the roles wouldn't matter. The issue is the same...sharing in each others world. It would increase the bond either way. And the children you have some day will thank you for making that effort.

 

[faire_jour]

I am not talking about "disallowing" specific people to work as teachers, but aren't it much more effective to use as much as possible deaf people in deaf ed, reducing the risk of misunderstanding and lack of progress in students, with the cultural difference in mind?

I know deaf CI'ers that are more hardcore deafmute than I am, so I wouldn't dream of measuring a person by CI status. CI or not seems to be more of a concern in the health service and parents. As for late deafened, it would depend how late they got deaf, if their mind have been assimilated into the asl community or other deaf community, and if they are able to understand other deaf people as whole humans.

But you are talking about "disallowing" people...hearing people. Why do you think that a late deafened, or oral deaf person would understand ASL or Deaf culture more than a hearing person? Just because their ears are different?

 

[Bebonang]

Remember in the movie call "Children of a lesser God" where the hearing teacher who tried to make Sarah talk? Well, the hearing teacher knows ASL but he does not seem to know Deaf Culture at all and he wanted all the deaf students to speak in the classroom except for one young boy who refused to speak. Does the principal ever thought that he should not hire him if the hearing teacher treat them differently what Deaf teachers teach them about Deaf Culture and just teach the subjects. It was suppose to be a Deaf Institution where ASL is allow to but I understand many other Deaf Institutions have oral classes like the teacher in the movie. So that is a reality check. As for me when I was mainstream, I did not get ASL nor any of the special accommodations to help me understand in the classroom with the hearing students. That is why I needed ASL in the classroom for the deaf students and have the ASL interpreters to interpret on what the hearing teacher and the hearing students. I would love to have Deaf teachers in both Deaf Institutions and public schools today and the future.

 

[flip]

The only thing I can think of where it requires a hearing teacher is a speech therapist. I don't mind hearing teachers as long as 1) they are very very good at ASL, 2) know the subject they are teaching quite well, 3) and NOT paternalistic. I would love to see more deaf teachers because they can be good role models for the kids. When the deaf kids see deaf teachers, they would know immediately that they, too, can achieve something better than menial jobs or dead-end jobs.

Good at ASL, know the subject, not paternalistic. Thats a good list!

Perhaps it's just me, but I feel it's often two out of three. For example good at ASL, know the subject, BUT paternalistic. Or know the subject, not paternalistic, but sucks at ASL. Or not paternalistic, good at ASL, but don't know a shit.