Where does racism come from?

[The Heretic]

A lack of sexual interest.

Yes, you read that right. Not something forbidden in this egalitarian era - the desire to be superior - but a cultural tweaking of an existential condition.

Why I think sexual interest is at the root of racism is precisely this: the fundamental drive of man is "desire"- not necessarily libidinal sex drive- but best characterized as "lack." Human consciousness is always aware of itself, that it is imperfect, that it lacks.

However, this creates problems when other human beings are the object of the desire. As an object of desire, the Other never coincides with the desiring consciousness. Sexuality vacillates between sadism and masochism, in which either the other or oneself is merely an object, a thing. This plays on as long as both practitioners remain in bad faith. All intersubjective relationships are doomed. Coming to grips with this futility, that human intimacy is sentimental bad faith, the consciousness attempts to define the "other" as an object with a simple look by perceiving the person in an act that defines his existence. One freedom threatens another. Objectification is a threat of freedom, a simple look endangers the absolute freedom of the consciousness. This look reifies and deprives the Other of his transcendence, diminishing his freedom by reducing him to an object, a thing. The other has two options- dominate the situation and suppress his/her own freedom, or allow himself/herself to be dominated by the looker's freedom. But the "other" will fail, because he/she will always recognize his/her own freedom as well as the observer's in order to suppress it. Then his/her world, as "whatever he was doing," no longer belong to him/her anymore, for it belongs to the "observer." So there is a tug-of-war battle of wills between the consciousness and the Other in defining one another with the "Look." This is called objectification or projections. Life is a series of relations with other people that amounts to "stare downs" of an existential nature.

You may be asking at this point, how does this relate to racism? This phenomenological exposition on human relations plays a part when the look objectifies the "other." It takes a racist to categorize a "race" and consequently the people in that racial class is defined by the racists. However, taking a person to be an "object" is in bad faith, and denies the "other's" freedom. A person is not a racist in the same way he is a brunette. He chose to be a racist, because he fears freedom, openness, and change and desires to be as solid as a thing. He is in search for an identity. With the façade of a racist, the person escapes his freedom (momentarily) and once this 'façade' has become second nature, the racist has abdicated his humanity. Racism is not merely an opinion, but it is a global attitude, a passion and a way of living one's life. It is an emotion and involves a choice of oneself as that of a particular passion. The racist cannot incorporate his prejudice into his other attitudes as if it was a separate entity among other separate entities. His prejudice dictates his worldview and consequently brought to bear on all men in general.

Bottom line: If a person judges a group of people as a substandard race, he or she has ruled them out as potential partners in a relationship.

 

[The Heretic]

Quick Example: a man and a woman are both in bed, flush with passion and are about to have sex. The guy is excited and prepares to mount her, but the woman takes this opportunity to inform him that she is a Jew. The guy, being an anti-semite, loses his erection immediately. Conclusion? Racism comes from a lack of sexual interest.

 

[AL-KHAWARIZMI]

Quick Example: a man and a woman are both in bed, flush with passion and are about to have sex. The guy is excited and prepares to mount her, but the woman takes this opportunity to inform him that she is a Jew. The guy, being an anti-semite, loses his erection immediately. Conclusion? Racism comes from a lack of sexual interest.

Hilarious!

Racism isn't based purely on sex Sure. . it's one of the contributing factors.

Racism is basically set upon the premise, as you pointed out, that the person has determined on his own, either via faulty reasoning or observation, that a person who happened to be affiliated with a group must be substandard for one reason or another, therefore be bounded for euthanasia. Racism, in my opinion, is a Japanese notion of team-work in ensuring that "one" team survives all the elimination.

Downside to this type of notion, once all certain groups but one has been eliminated. it is only inevitable that it will turn on itself, for it will divide itself into subsets of a certain group meant to cannibalize each other.

Now, the Jewish example.

Sure, the Jews can be "considered" a different race in terms of "religious" beliefs. However, you asked for "racism" but quoted an "semite" example, whereas I see race as basically a melanin identifier. You did say "a simple look reduced them . ."

Perhaps you have a different definition, but wouldn't you assume, that if the anti-semite knew right off what he despised the most, that he would have never been caught in bed with someone whom he considers substandard? However, the fact remains, he was sexually attractive to her. He was at full mast, ready to penetrate the furry desert of the Mount Arafat caverns.

What you're pointing out , if I read you right, is that racism is basically a byproduct of the mind in terms of "notion" of what ought be, rather than what really is.

Let me rephrase your example into another scenario in which will illustrate my point better.

Quick Example: a black man and a white woman are both in bed, flush with passion and are about to have sex. The guy is excited and prepares to mount her, but the woman takes this opportunity to inform him that she is white. The guy, being an Racist, loses his erection immediately. Conclusion? Racism comes from a lack of sexual interest.

Doesn't quite work, now does it?. .mmmm

Is there a difference between Visual and Mental racism? How does one determine racism, if the visual aspect doesn't come into act? Your Jewish example would be an example of one.

However, is it possible that one might consider racism as a positive aspect of improving ones stock? Consider India and certain Asian areas, where the breeding of their stock with some European whites are considered an upward mobility in grand scheme of genetic dilution

Ah well.

 

[Beowulf]

Interesting.
I would venture to say that hatred in general comes from impotence, a biopathic disorder. and a need to make everyone else suffer the malady.
Look what is happening nowadays...people are frothing in hatred towards Clinton for having hank panky, while Bush cannot even bring it up, and he is practically the Media Messiah, he can do no wrong.
Go figure.

 

[The Heretic]

at last, a substantial response!

Before I reply to Al Khawarizmi, I want to stress my method of analysis is existential in its speculations, but is grounded on a schopenhauerian premise that the consciousness is but a paper-thin mask that doesn't truly determine the individual's behavior, for the sexual impulse is not merely a choice but a biological imperative. The consciousness can only redirect this impulse, and only the genius can sublimate this impulse.

>Hilarious!
>
>Racism isn't based purely on sex Sure. . it's one of the contributing factors.

What are the other contributing factors?

>Racism is basically set upon the premise, as you pointed out, that the person has determined on his own, either via faulty reasoning or observation, that a person who happened to be affiliated with a group must be substandard for one reason or another, therefore be bounded for euthanasia.

Not quite my premise. Racism is an existential condition because of the limited access people have of one another. Their access is mediated by language, by culture and by society, and that leads to generalizations of people who have been identified by a certain ethnicity. In other words racism is incurable, for we are condemned to judge with our limited perspectives, biases, etc. It is bad faith to consider a person like an object, a thing, but bad faith is truly inescapable. Even sincerity is another form of bad faith.

Racism, in my opinion, is a Japanese notion of team-work in ensuring that "one" team survives all the elimination.

This would be a cultural account for racism, but I'm always more interested in the individual level where people make conscious choices about ethnic identities and invent stereotypes and caricatures based on a sample of the population.

>Downside to this type of notion, once all certain groups but one has been eliminated. it is only inevitable that it will turn on itself, for it will divide itself into subsets of a certain group meant to cannibalize each other.

Can you support this assertion with historical examples?

>Now, the Jewish example.
>
>Sure, the Jews can be "considered" a different race in terms of "religious" beliefs. However, you asked for "racism" but quoted an "semite" example, whereas I see race as basically a melanin identifier. You did say "a simple look reduced them . ."

Correction: I consider Jews to be a cultural group, not a religious one.

>Perhaps you have a different definition, but wouldn't you assume, that if the anti-semite knew right off what he despised the most, that he would have never been caught in bed with someone whom he considers substandard? However, the fact remains, he was sexually attractive to her. He was at full mast, ready to penetrate the furry desert of the Mount Arafat caverns.
>
>What you're pointing out , if I read you right, is that racism is basically a byproduct of the mind in terms of "notion" of what ought be, rather than what really is.

There's no such thing as "racism" beyond the beliefs of the individual. No biological basis, no scientific concept of race. Therefore, the idea of race stems from ethnic or cultural identities.

>Let me rephrase your example into another scenario in which will illustrate my point better. >Quick Example: a black man and a white woman are both in bed, flush with passion and are about to have sex. The guy is excited and prepares to mount her, but the woman takes this opportunity to inform him that she is white. The guy, being an Racist, loses his erection immediately. Conclusion? Racism comes from a lack of sexual interest.
>
>Doesn't quite work, now does it?. .mmmm

Why not?

The only way that can happen is if the black man fails to identify the female as "white," and that would indicate her ethnic identity isn't predicated on her skin color. The same thing with the antisemite.

>Is there a difference between Visual and Mental racism? How does one determine racism, if the visual aspect doesn't come into act? Your Jewish example would be an example of one.

No. I don't think there is such a thing as a "visual" racism distinct from the "mental" unless you'd like to justify that distinction? If something is independent of the subjective beliefs, it is objective. I don't think you can go that far without subscribing to some objective determinant of human nature, and turn out to be an essentialist.

>However, is it possible that one might consider racism as a positive aspect of improving ones stock? Consider India and certain Asian areas, where the breeding of their stock with some European whites are considered an upward mobility in grand scheme of genetic dilution Ah well.

"Nothing human is alien to me" In other words, there is nothing inherently evil with racism.

I am being a racist when I determine my sexual partners to come from a certain ethnic group(s).

 

[Beowulf]

I am being a racist when I determine my sexual partners to come from a certain ethnic group(s).[/QUOTE]

Speak for yourself.
I have personality conflicts with 500 pound waitresses.

 

[AL-KHAWARIZMI]

Before I reply to Al Khawarizmi, I want to stress my method of analysis is existential in its speculations, but is grounded on a schopenhauerian premise that the consciousness is but a paper-thin mask that doesn't truly determine the individual's behavior, for the sexual impulse is not merely a choice but a biological imperative. The consciousness can only redirect this impulse, and only the genius can sublimate this impulse.

Fair Enough.

What are the other contributing factors?

1. cultural
2. socioeconomic
3. political
4. legal determinants.

Not quite my premise. Racism is an existential condition because of the limited access people have of one another. Their access is mediated by language, by culture and by society, and that leads to generalizations of people who have been identified by a certain ethnicity. In other words racism is incurable, for we are condemned to judge with our limited perspectives, biases, etc. It is bad faith to consider a person like an object, a thing, but bad faith is truly inescapable. Even sincerity is another form of bad faith.

True. I do consider myself as a bona-fide racist. I have a taste for Asian, Eriterian, Indian ladies, purely on their "race" factor. I tend to judge ladies that share the same "racial" identity higher than I do of others that I do not.

There is however different type of racism being practiced. Negative and Positive Racism. Although a positive racism, to those who are currently reading this thread, might appear to be an oxymoron. Well, it actually does work in two different subsets.

1. positive racism
a. Seeing ones own racial identity as the end all
b. Seeing certain racial group as the ideal group for a certain activities.

Example:
Asian males are expected to excel in school.
African males are expected to excel in sports and music.
European Males are expected to excel in science, mathematic, and philosophy.


Now, the word "positive" does not necessarily mean it's a "good thing", but a perspective to be taken by the beholder in which favors the racial identity in which the person holds in high esteem.

Anyway, back to the point of "exposure" as you pointed out that racists (in this sense, I'm talking about those who have this deep irrational hatred of a certain racial group for one reason or another) are not exposed to enough of folks in a certain "racial" group.

However, I'm speaking from experience, that sometimes. . .too much of an exposure can lead to racism. I'll admit that I tend to judge the African Americans more harshly than I do when it comes to those who actually are first or second generation Americans that immigrated from Africa, regardless of which tribe/state/country they came from.

Of course, that is basically a generalization that cannot be justified for one reason or another, only from experience that one can make an approximation of what a certain racial group would behave in a given setting.

I always wonder whether it's just a narrow- perspective that I tacked upon that particular group that determined/colored my outlook. I do recall that during my youth that I attempted to be as inclusive as possible in my interest in those in different racial groups, naturally since I was heavily involved with sports that I hung out with those who were in that type of field.

Perhaps I have a irrational/colored perspective of "Jocks" rather than just an racial issue

This would be a cultural account for racism, but I'm always more interested in the individual level where people make conscious choices about ethnic identities and invent stereotypes and caricatures based on a sample of the population.

True. Another example of Racism where it's actually beneficial is police-work. If one spotted a rampage of dead bodies strewn over time, killed in the same methodological manner, one assumes a serial killer is on loose.

What's the first impression that comes to your mind when profiling such a serial killer.

Sure. . . a white male, in his early 40s

Can you support this assertion with historical examples?

Sure, how about the Romans, Egyptians, Sumerian, India, and Babylonians? At the height of their power, they all turned in on themselves and divided themselves up into warring states and weakened themselves a whole that allowed them to be easily invaded by barbarians.

Correction: I consider Jews to be a cultural group, not a religious one.

Well, they can be considered both/either/or just one of each. . however they are not a race, although the 1980 Supreme Court decision disagrees with me.

Although a good example would be, I cannot become Black nor Asian, but I can become a Jew. Blacks and Asian can become a Jew as well (Sammy Davis Jr and Connie Chung).

There are secular Jews, as well as religious gentile Jews, just as-much as there are militant JEWS.

As for Jews being a cultural group. Well, that's the primary belief of American Secular Jews. Focusing mainly on dishes, yiddish language, and certain holiday observance.

However, being a Jew isn't a final claimant.

The American Secular Jews practice what is called Ashkenazic Jewish culture, whereas a Sephardic Jew would say that Yiddish, bagel and lox, chopped liver, and so forth are NOT part of his culture. He would claim that Jewish cooking includes pastries filled with cheese. Heck, his ancestors probably wouldn't know what to do with a dreidel.

However, what you could call/describe the Jews as is better defined as a "Nation" or a "People", however not in the territorial or political entity, but more or less a group of people with a common history, common destiny, and a sense that they are "connected" to each other, an extended family, so to speak.

Judaism 101: What is Judaism?

There's no such thing as "racism" beyond the beliefs of the individual. No biological basis, no scientific concept of race. Therefore, the idea of race stems from ethnic or cultural identities.

I agree.

Why not?

Well, aside the fact that the black guy automatically should have known that she was white, without having her need to tell him?

The only way that can happen is if the black man fails to identify the female as "white," and that would indicate her ethnic identity isn't predicated on her skin color. The same thing with the antisemite.

Right. Hence, the skin color isn't the only determining factor. Right?

No. I don't think there is such a thing as a "visual" racism distinct from the "mental" unless you'd like to justify that distinction? If something is independent of the subjective beliefs, it is objective. I don't think you can go that far without subscribing to some objective determinant of human nature, and turn out to be an essentialist.

Visually, I mean spotting the "Jews" automatically without needing any verbal cues.

Mentally, spotting a "Jew", only after that person has "identified" themselves such as.

I know that it's an obscure definition, but lets just work on that one for the time being.

"Nothing human is alien to me" In other words, there is nothing inherently evil with racism.

I am being a racist when I determine my sexual partners to come from a certain ethnic group(s).

Sure, but there, as I pointed out, are two types of racism, in which I identified as positive and negative racism, the negative one, I would presume is the evil aspect of racism?

I define evil as something that impends my way from achieving my goals.