We ALL Dropped the Ball

[Eve]

I watched NBC news last night, and although I generally view the media as biased (and they are), I did pay attention to the message they were sending. I don't agree with them on all lines, but I do concede that the Feds were just as much to blame as anyone else. Basically, the blame lies with EVERYONE from Katrina aka mothernature, to the citizens, to the mayor, governor, Michael Brown, and yes, even my beloved Bush. I do, however, appreciate Bush's stance in that he has admitted there have been mistakes made, now let's see what we can do to improve (which he has) and learn how to do things differently in the future.

SO, WHAT CAN WE DO NOW? HOW DO WE PREPARE DIFFERENTLY FOR THE NEXT BIG ONE?

CITIZENS - If you are going to live in a hurricane prone area which is below sea level, you must be responsible for protecting yourself and your family by being informed and prepared for inevitable destruction. Have a hurricane pack ready in your home. Have an evacuation plan that doesn't necessarily rely on the government. Have a family plan in place, where you will meet and how you will get in contact should phone lines not be available.

NOLA's mayor - When asked who was at fault, replied "Everybody". And, on THAT I can agree. However, when he was asked what he could have done differently, he responded "scream louder". Here I have issue. He could have had a better evacuation plan in place, utilizing school and municipal buses to transport the poor out of Katrina's wrath, rather than just telling everyone to get the heck out of Dodge. I also saw that the mayor had participated in a hurricane preparation awareness video that was ironically scheduled for release THIS WEEK. A day late and a dollar short, but it may still be beneficial in the future. In the video, they show citizens how to prepare, protect, and escape a hurricane.

STATE - The governor knew this was coming, just as everyone else did. Yet, was just as slow with response as anyone. National Guard should have been deployed long before it was done. The governor should have been the one "screaming louder" to get the leavees up to a functional level. AND, the governor should have reached out to other states for help prior to the hurricane ever hitting.
Also, I saw last night that the state of LA has thousands of sex offenders that have now been spread out to every corner of our nation. I was informed that Florida has a law which requires sex offenders to ride out a hurricane in jail. I think this is imperative to prevent unleashing these bastards on the rest of civilization. We have enough of our own to deal with!

FEDERAL - FEMA has proven to be not quite up to this monumental task. The entire organization has been less than organized. They should have been more prepared and been ready to deploy the moment Katrina hit, rather than waiting days for a half-cocked effort. Although, things have certainly improved, maybe next time we will learn from this and know how to go about things immediately rather than through trial and error.

PRESIDENT - Yes, he cut funding for levee improvement. Now, he will be spending much more on rebuilding NOLA than he would if he had just funded the improvements necessary to prevent much of this destruction from happening in the first place. Let's go ahead and do it right this time. Before rebuilding, let's get those levees functioning and fully operational at whatever the cost.

THE REST OF US - We need to quit our bitching, whining, and finger pointing and learn what we can do to help. Most of us have been helping in whatever way we can, and I understand that we are frustrated at our limitations, but every little bit counts.

 

[AJ]

u can be prepared all u want...but nothing u do is going to stop the hurricanes. to be prepared for a hurricane u need to have a hurricane kit. it has water, non perishable foods, like canned food, a first aid kit, flashlight, batteries, legal documents, and medicine. u can leave when instructed to, but thats not going to stop the damage. all those people in new orleans and mississippi could have ALL left their states and gone to canada for safety. but when they came home everything would have still been in ruins. their houses still would have been flooded. everyone still would be homeless.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I watched NBC news last night, and although I generally view the media as biased (and they are), I did pay attention to the message they were sending. I don't agree with them on all lines, but I do concede that the Feds were just as much to blame as anyone else. Basically, the blame lies with EVERYONE from Katrina aka mothernature, to the citizens, to the mayor, governor, Michael Brown, and yes, even my beloved Bush. I do, however, appreciate Bush's stance in that he has admitted there have been mistakes made, now let's see what we can do to improve (which he has) and learn how to do things differently in the future.

SO, WHAT CAN WE DO NOW? HOW DO WE PREPARE DIFFERENTLY FOR THE NEXT BIG ONE?

CITIZENS - If you are going to live in a hurricane prone area which is below sea level, you must be responsible for protecting yourself and your family by being informed and prepared for inevitable destruction. Have a hurricane pack ready in your home. Have an evacuation plan that doesn't necessarily rely on the government. Have a family plan in place, where you will meet and how you will get in contact should phone lines not be available.

NOLA's mayor - When asked who was at fault, replied "Everybody". And, on THAT I can agree. However, when he was asked what he could have done differently, he responded "scream louder". Here I have issue. He could have had a better evacuation plan in place, utilizing school and municipal buses to transport the poor out of Katrina's wrath, rather than just telling everyone to get the heck out of Dodge. I also saw that the mayor had participated in a hurricane preparation awareness video that was ironically scheduled for release THIS WEEK. A day late and a dollar short, but it may still be beneficial in the future. In the video, they show citizens how to prepare, protect, and escape a hurricane.

STATE - The governor knew this was coming, just as everyone else did. Yet, was just as slow with response as anyone. National Guard should have been deployed long before it was done. The governor should have been the one "screaming louder" to get the leavees up to a functional level. AND, the governor should have reached out to other states for help prior to the hurricane ever hitting.
Also, I saw last night that the state of LA has thousands of sex offenders that have now been spread out to every corner of our nation. I was informed that Florida has a law which requires sex offenders to ride out a hurricane in jail. I think this is imperative to prevent unleashing these bastards on the rest of civilization. We have enough of our own to deal with!

FEDERAL - FEMA has proven to be not quite up to this monumental task. The entire organization has been less than organized. They should have been more prepared and been ready to deploy the moment Katrina hit, rather than waiting days for a half-cocked effort. Although, things have certainly improved, maybe next time we will learn from this and know how to go about things immediately rather than through trial and error.

PRESIDENT - Yes, he cut funding for levee improvement. Now, he will be spending much more on rebuilding NOLA than he would if he had just funded the improvements necessary to prevent much of this destruction from happening in the first place. Let's go ahead and do it right this time. Before rebuilding, let's get those levees functioning and fully operational at whatever the cost.

THE REST OF US - We need to quit our bitching, whining, and finger pointing and learn what we can do to help. Most of us have been helping in whatever way we can, and I understand that we are frustrated at our limitations, but every little bit counts.

AMEN!! Preach it, sistah!!

As I've said to ad nausea, Florida does do things differently and I believe more efficiently. It is on everybody; the citizens AND the local government to make sure that we all our all safe and out of harm's way when a storm hits.

I would like to add something about our citizens that you failed to mention above. Each person needs to know everything they can about their storm coverage. It is also imperative that each person HAVE storm coverage! You'd be surprised how many people neglect this for one reason or another. As prepared as Florida is for hurricanes, there are those who decide that they would rather buy "Little Suzy" a pair of roller skates than pay the premium on their flood and wind storm insurance, and they let their policies lapse. It's enough to make one crazy!

I would say that the biggest problem of all is simple apathy. People think a storm is going to go somewhere else. It sometimes does, but there's always that one time when a storm marks the X on your doorstep, and then, what are ya gonna do?

Prepare yourself for whatever may happen, and you're a lot better off!


There is also one more thing I'd like to add to this...

In Florida, we have a law that deals specifically with criminals. Specifically sex offenders. I recently read that Lousiana has no such law, and I'm really quite upset about it. In the US right now, there are thousands of Lousiana's registered sex offenders scattered all over without anyone keeping tabs on them. I find this inexcusable.

I honestly believe that Lousiana needs to get organized and if necessary completely revamp how they do things there. If you're interested, here's the article that peeved me so much.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050910/ap_on_re_us/katrina_sex_offenders_2

 

[Eve]

There was a suggestion made in another BB-forum by Mark B. I really think this guy has some good ideas on the matter:

1. Pre-position all relief materiel (including food & medicine) and vehicles at the border states where they'd be able to move into the disaster zone within 24-48 hours. Hospital ships would be exempt until they can move into the area safely; however, they can still station themselves away from the hurricane's path in a close-enough area for medivac helicopters to access them.

2. Once the all clear is given, priority will be given to earth-moving equipment to clear a path into the disaster zone no later than 24 hours post-clearance. Right behind will be relief materiel transports & personnel.

3. Right behind that will be security forces to nip the illogical looting crap and gang activity at the bud. Shoot to maim. No questions asked. Dumb suckers' are askin' for it, anyways.

Scwew the political Washingtonese...run it (FEMA) like a gosh-durned private enterprise and run it PROPERLY! Save the people, then pay the bills afterwards.

 

[Eve]

u can be prepared all u want...but nothing u do is going to stop the hurricanes. to be prepared for a hurricane u need to have a hurricane kit. it has water, non perishable foods, like canned food, a first aid kit, flashlight, batteries, legal documents, and medicine. u can leave when instructed to, but thats not going to stop the damage. all those people in new orleans and mississippi could have ALL left their states and gone to canada for safety. but when they came home everything would have still been in ruins. their houses still would have been flooded. everyone still would be homeless.

Maybe not, if we all learn to work together. Sure there will still be destruction brought on by mothernature, but if the levees are up to code to hold even through a level 4 or 5 hurricane, the damage may not be as severe. And, if the residents are prepared and evacuate, at the very least they will have escaped with their lives, which is more than can be said for thousands of Katrina's victims in this round.

 

[Banjo]

AJ, you are right... hurricanes cannot be prevented. However, the impact can be greatly reduced due to some types of land terrains. That's where the wetlands come in handy.

Unfortunately, we've been wiping them out at a rapid rate due to the greed.

Wetlands act as a "speed bump," slowing down storms almost like dry land does, said Kip Patrick, spokesman for America's Wetland. "They take some of the brunt of the force of the hurricane, weakens the storm like any land mass would."

Sidney Coffee, executive assistant to the governor for coastal activities, said about 1,900 square miles of wetlands have disappeared from the area since the 1930s, and the receding continues at a rate of about 24 square miles per year. The erosion has a direct impact on New Orleans' ability to absorb the blow of a storm like Katrina, she said. For every 2.7 miles of wetlands, storm surges are reduced by about one 1 foot, she said.

"We've tried and tried and tried to tell people this is real, this is happening. This is happening a little bit every day," she said. "But it's a real emergency."

More can be read, just click here.

The fact is, people were being warned for years. But did they listen?

No. The developers didn't give a hoot, they just wanted to get rich off the projects on high-risk territories. Yes, they were even temporally prevented from the environmentalists/scientists including Michael Davis, a biologist who worked for the army. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott is a true hypocrite, why?

Because he originally showed some "concerns" for the environmental problems among the coastline and said that no industry/business would be able to develop on the land without an EIS (environmental impact study). A few months later, he completely flip-flopped. After the casino developers unveiled their plans, there were several protests by the EPA and the other environmentalist groups, he complained that they were eliminating the "economic opportunities" by requiring EIS.

Some politicians aren't staying true to their words. They are sometimes caught using their strength of political power to gain due to their self-interests rather than the voters' needs.

More can be found at this link.

The only solution I think is the best is to let New Orleans disappear on its own and everybody else move on to different cities to start a new life. People shouldn't be living in a city that is below the sea level, and it has been sinking year after year. So what's the point in rebuilding the levees when it will just contribute more to the already-present problems?

Even magazines like National Geographic had done pieces on New Orleans and the dangers of living there prior to the disaster. Click here to read the National Geographic article that was published last year.

Both the governments and citizens are at fault because they contributed to the problems. They were warned so many times. There's a consequence for every choice made.

May God rest the souls of the victims. It's such a pity that this happened and it was because they didn't listen.

 

[GalaxyAngel]

*goosebump*, What I've read this http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/ which Banjo's posted about this link.

Impressive published and let everyone know about every details but unfortunally rest of peoples and includes gov't didn't listen what their POV. Until now, Come true which happends already THERE awful damages New Orleans as same may Florida too.
I born raised-vacation in Florida until stopped when I was 16 yrs old. I didn't realized that Heavy hurriance always come to Florida.. I read the news, There will be 74th hurriance come to Florida... Gonna be next 75th near the future depend how seriouis catgerty?

*break my voice* ((speechless))

I wish people should have not closer ocean where people are living... Just far away distance from Ocean... Ocean suitable for beach only.

 

[vfr]

money

those were all good ideas...but they will not happen. to much money.
the people need to look where they live a adjust to the area.
florida ans gulf coast get nasty huricanes ,so build your house HIGH and SRTONG!
e people in india with no schooling have figuered that one out.
people in NY put bars on the windows.
in japan they make earthquake proof houses.( the house bends and twists)
in arizon they make houses real thick to resist the heat(at least mine was!)

the south east coast gets hammered by hurricanes too... i live in MD now and there have been floods ,ECT...but the people here exspect that. the houses here LOOK normal...but the walls are made out of steel reinforced concrete! and the "first floor " is up 8 feet from the ground. they need to do that where every hurricans hit.
which is why i really do not feel sorry for the people. they choose to live there and stay when warned.

my house is a 45 foot STEEL house boat.5 times as heavy as a fiberglass or aluminum models...and it is right on the chesapeak bay....big hurricane zone...all the other boats get pushed and sway alot. a few roofs get riipped..ect..mine just stays and rocks a little ,like a baby carage...........but
if my boat sinks..do not feel sorry for me. i made my choice to live there. so i will accept the results.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

those were all good ideas...but they will not happen. to much money.
the people need to look where they live a adjust to the area.
florida ans gulf coast get nasty huricanes ,so build your house HIGH and SRTONG!

This is all well and good, but for people in wheelchairs like myself, a stilt house is not practical to live in.

 

[sr171soars]

...I wish people should have not closer ocean where people are living... Just far away distance from Ocean... Ocean suitable for beach only.

Interesting fact on this. Most people in this country live within 200 or so miles (can't remember exactly what the figure was) from the coast.

As far as the other comments go, I totally agree everybody dropped the ball on this one. I heard one comment saying to the effect that "Everybody gambled that the big one wouldn't come" and as we can easily see that we all lost that bet.

On a slightly different note...Believe it or not, some of us here in central and eastern NC "sort of" want this latest hurricane (category 1) to hit us...we need the rain badly *<sigh and double sigh>*

 

[vfr]

stilt house....

stilt house huuummmm. i guess if need a ramp ,then you need a ramp.
my feind has one here. it wraps around the house all the way to the 3rd floor! it does had a 2nd floor door but he likes to go straight to the top.!

 

[Dennis S.]

1. Pre-position all relief materiel (including food & medicine) and vehicles at the border states where they'd be able to move into the disaster zone within 24-48 hours. Hospital ships would be exempt until they can move into the area safely; however, they can still station themselves away from the hurricane's path in a close-enough area for medivac helicopters to access them.

2. Once the all clear is given, priority will be given to earth-moving equipment to clear a path into the disaster zone no later than 24 hours post-clearance. Right behind will be relief materiel transports & personnel.

3. Right behind that will be security forces to nip the illogical looting crap and gang activity at the bud. Shoot to maim. No questions asked. Dumb suckers' are askin' for it, anyways.

These are the most well meaning, but DUMBEST ideas ever. They are absolutely worthless in the face of a wide disaster area.

Let me address the points:

1)

1. Pre-position all relief materiel (including food & medicine) and vehicles at the border states where they'd be able to move into the disaster zone within 24-48 hours.

Where will all that relief material be when the "disaster zone" is so huge that even the "neighboring states" are at risk? Suppose we thought only New Orleans was going to get hit, so we put all the relief material in Bilboxi. Never mind that later the storm shifted eastward. It could just as easily moved towards Houston, TX. My point is, what would happen then? The relief just got wiped out. You CAN'T just station something "just outside of the disaster zone" when the disaster zone isn't defined yet!
This disaster zone ended up being HUGE!

2. Once the all clear is given, priority will be given to earth-moving equipment to clear a path into the disaster zone no later than 24 hours post-clearance. Right behind will be relief materiel transports & personnel.

Who is authorized to give the "all clear?" FEMA? The mayor? The governor? The president? This needs to apply to all levels of emergencies, big and small. What if, surprisingly enough, the disaster is too small to involve FEMA? Who says it then?

What if, as it was for this hurricane, "earth moving equipment" wouldn't get recuse workers there fast enough? What if its not needed?

3. Right behind that will be security forces to nip the illogical looting crap and gang activity at the bud. Shoot to maim. No questions asked. Dumb suckers' are askin' for it, anyways.

NO. NO NO NO. THERE is NO such thing as "shoot to maim!" Screw you and whomever thinks that it's okay to try to shoot anyone they want in the kneecaps or wherever else they think is "non-lethal." Guns are SHOOT TO KILL, period.

Don't EVER let anyone with a gun think it's okay to shoot unless they have to kill someone. I don't want you or anyone else to be the innocent bystander to someone getting shot at and them missing, or overpenetrating, or getting caught in a crossfire. I don't want you or anyone else to be assumed a "looter or gang or bad guy" and suffer for the rest of their life, handicapped or paralyzed or lame because someone shot them. You can either get arrested or get killed. I'd rather get arrested and have it sorted out later.

No questions asked

YES, QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED, NEVER ASSUME with a GUN.

 

[Eve]

Dennis, these are some very good points and you are RIGHT! We all need to discuss these issues so that we know what to expect in the future.

Where will all that relief material be when the "disaster zone" is so huge that even the "neighboring states" are at risk? Suppose we thought only New Orleans was going to get hit, so we put all the relief material in Bilboxi. Never mind that later the storm shifted eastward. It could just as easily moved towards Houston, TX. My point is, what would happen then? The relief just got wiped out. You CAN'T just station something "just outside of the disaster zone" when the disaster zone isn't defined yet!
This disaster zone ended up being HUGE!

TRUE, but couldn't we at least have them ready to be deported, knowing that the inevitable is coming? And not just wait till the last minute to start rounding up the troups and supplies.

Who is authorized to give the "all clear?" FEMA? The mayor? The governor? The president? This needs to apply to all levels of emergencies, big and small. What if, surprisingly enough, the disaster is too small to involve FEMA? Who says it then?

In this case, NOBODY was prepared. And yes, we do need to have a chain of command in place where everybody knows their role.

NO. NO NO NO. THERE is NO such thing as "shoot to maim!" Screw you and whomever thinks that it's okay to try to shoot anyone they want in the kneecaps or wherever else they think is "non-lethal." Guns are SHOOT TO KILL, period.

AMEN! But in these cases, I do believe there were a few incidents where "shooting to kill" would have been required and appropriate action. Not necessarily the looters, but certainly the rapists and those beating others. These people were out-of-control, and I don't think a mere warning would have been appropriate.

 

[vfr]

shoot to maim

have you never heard of rubber bullets? bean bag shot guns? tazers? all hurt like hell and WILL drop you with out killing you.

as for using real bullets to maim.. do not try it. just go for the chest and then finish them of with a double tap to the head! :rl:

 

[Dennis S.]

have you never heard of rubber bullets? bean bag shot guns? tazers? all hurt like hell and WILL drop you with out killing you

Even stuff that just "hurts like hell" CAN kill you. I'm at work, so I can't search the cites I want, but I'm sure you can find several shooting deaths that involved rubber bullets, bean-bag shotguns, and tazers. The risk is REAL and I don't want anyone shooting ANY of those things near me. You'll take out an eye, you'll break my ribs, or make me lose some precious reproductive body parts.

 

[vfr]

ouch

yep, there have been a few deaths over the years from that stuff...but mostly by accident ..i would rather be shot by a rubber bullet that a hollow point tallon....which would do a lot more than hurt like hell.!