Wa. State Has 1st Death Under State's Assisted Suicide Law

AlleyCat said:
Ok, if you feel like you have to take those off-label meds, then why talk about whether it's ok to sue him? Only you can justify your decision to take those meds.
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There's a difference between someone choosing to take meds for a lifelong condition that isn't life-threatening, but is likely to become worse over time vs. someone who takes them for a terminal illness who may only have months to live.
 
So it shouldn't be about whether to sue a doctor or not for prescribing meds that you know are off-label. It's about the choice to actually put those pills in your mouth -- it's the decision you or anyone else makes to do that, not that of the doctor.
 
AlleyCat said:
So it shouldn't be about whether to sue a doctor or not for prescribing meds that you know are off-label. It's about the choice to actually put those pills in your mouth -- it's the decision you or anyone else makes to do that, not that of the doctor.
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We aren't debating whether or not it's up to someone to take these meds. PAS already specifies that a person must be of sound mind before being able to make this decision for themselves.
 
AlleyCat said:
So it shouldn't be about whether to sue a doctor or not for prescribing meds that you know are off-label. It's about the choice to actually put those pills in your mouth -- it's the decision you or anyone else makes to do that, not that of the doctor.
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Bingo. And that is what this law is all about. Allowing the patient the autonomy to make that determination and act on it.
 
oh god not again...... let me find my old robot parrot in my closet. :roll:
 
This is the very slippery slope Washington is on...as well as for the rest of the nation once this catches on...and we should be very wary of these kinds of things. Heck, the state may take on the role to decide which patients should live and die and certainly the decision would readily made as part of a the state's budget decision as well. It's cheaper to let one die earlier than to continue another several months of living that could make a difference by millions of dollars.

How Much Money Will Be Saved By Euthanasia? Using euthanasia as a way to ration health care. Euthanasia on demand!
Scoop: How Much Money Will Be Saved By Euthanasia?
 
First of all, PAS is not euthanasia. Two different concepts. Trying to relate the two simply shows either a complete misunderstanding of PAS, or an attempt to prey on the emotions of others by misrepresentation. Secondly, the slippery slope argument has been disproven over and over again, and is nothing more than an emotional tactic used by those that believe people don't have the ability to think for themselves.
 
jillio said:
First of all, PAS is not euthanasia. Two different concepts. Trying to relate the two simply shows either a complete misunderstanding of PAS, or an attempt to prey on the emotions of others by misrepresentation. Secondly, the slippery slope argument has been disproven over and over again, and is nothing more than an emotional tactic used by those that believe people don't have the ability to think for themselves.
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No. I wasn't inferring that but to point out that we're already heading in that direction, hence, the slippery slope we're on right now. PAS was a foreign concept until the last decade or so and it is gaining grounds now as more and more states take up the PAS issue to make it legal. How these things progress and evolve take time, it'd be a matter of time until euthanasia be used or encouraged as a way to help control a state's budget. Once the seed gets planted it's roots go in different and many directions, no telling where it may go. That was my point. The link I provided about Tasmania's attempt to control the budget shortfall by introducing and allowing euthanasia to take place serves my point about where this could go...if we if we let it. How long will it take to get to that point, if ever?
 
kokonut said:
No. I wasn't inferring that but to point out that we're already heading in that direction, hence, the slippery slope we're on right now. PAS was a foreign concept until the last decade or so and it is gaining grounds now as more and more states take up the PAS issue to make it legal. How these things progress and evolve take time, it'd be a matter of time until euthanasia be used or encouraged as a way to help control a state's budget. Once the seed gets planted it's roots go in different and many directions, no telling where it may go. That was my point. The link I provided about Tasmania's attempt to control the budget shortfall by introducing and allowing euthanasia to take place serves my point about where this could go...if we if we let it. How long will it take to get to that point, if ever?
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Yes, you are inferring it as you linked to a Euthanasia website, not a PAS website. If you want to make a point regarding PAS, use PAS as your basis, not euthanasia.

And discuss on a realistic perpsective, not this fear mongering you consistently employ. The facts regarding PAS point to anything but some fictionalized "slippery slope." Stick to the facts, and not your fantasy.
 
kokonut said:
The slippery slope and the seed of idea being planted?
"Legalise Non-voluntary Euthanasia, Says Professor Of Medical Ethics"
Legalise Non-voluntary Euthanasia, Says Professor Of Medical Ethics
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Physician-Assisted Suicide: Ethical Topic in Medicine

Practical Issues in Physician-Assisted Suicide -- Drickamer et al. 126 (2): 146 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

The Debate over Physician-Assisted Suicide: Empirical Data and Convergent Views -- Quill et al. 128 (7): 552 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

Top Reason For Patients Requesting Physician-Assisted Suicide: Worries About The Future

Thoughts on a Hospice Response to Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia

Definition of a Physician Assisted Suicide

Desire For Physician-assisted Suicide Among Patients Receiving Palliative Cancer Care: Survey Results

Please educate yourself on the issues. You can start with these. When you have finished, let me know, and I will supply you with more.
 
jillio said:
First of all, PAS is not euthanasia. Two different concepts. Trying to relate the two simply shows either a complete misunderstanding of PAS, or an attempt to prey on the emotions of others by misrepresentation. Secondly, the slippery slope argument has been disproven over and over again, and is nothing more than an emotional tactic used by those that believe people don't have the ability to think for themselves.
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Ah, ye of little faith.

Letter noting assisted suicide raises questions
A Springfield woman's doctor hoped a new chemotherapy drug would help her but the Oregon Health Plan told her the treatment was not approved. Instead, the state would pay for assisted suicide. "I'm not ready, I'm not ready to die," the Springfield woman said.
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Letter noting assisted suicide raises questions | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | News
Letter noting assisted suicide raises questions | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | Video - article

If that isn't a slippery slope situation on Physician Assisted Suicide then I don't know what is. It'll certainly get to the point to be seen as a cost-saving measure by the state, even perhaps someday at the Federal level, too.

:wave:
 
kokonut said:
Letter noting assisted suicide raises questions | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | News
Letter noting assisted suicide raises questions | KATU.com - Portland, Oregon | Video - article

If that isn't a slippery slope situation on Physician Assisted Suicide then I don't know what is. It'll certainly get to the point to be seen as a cost-saving measure by the state, even perhaps someday at the Federal level, too.

:wave:
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The links is an editorial is only that…an opinion. There is absolutely nothing to back up this claim that PAS is a slippery slope. However, there is sufficient data to show that PAS actually has the opposite effect. Also, the problem the editorial addresses is a problem with insurance companies making decisions regarding medical care that they are neither trained, educated, nor capable of making. Address the real problem…the insurers.
 
Kokonut, why are you talking to a banned member? Did you realize she's banned and she won't be here to reply it...
 
shel90 said:
The links is an editorial is only that…an opinion. There is absolutely nothing to back up this claim that PAS is a slippery slope. However, there is sufficient data to show that PAS actually has the opposite effect. Also, the problem the editorial addresses is a problem with insurance companies making decisions regarding medical care that they are neither trained, educated, nor capable of making. Address the real problem…the insurers.
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Oh, it's a slippery slope. Think of it as "gateway drug" kind of thing. It can lead to one thing after another.

You say there's "sufficient data"...? Show me.

Ah, the "insurers" are the problem? I see where this is goiing.
 
Well....it doesn't happen much. Oregon ONLY had 401 assisted suicides since their law was passed back in the 90's. It is VERY tough to get thru that to approve it. There is no reason to panic about that stuff. It ONLY applies to someone who is termitically sick and can't recover and has a few months to live....it may be considered with an approval from the family/doctors to give a go ahead. You are less likely to end up with assisted suicide than getting shot down in Detroit which has over 400 murders in ONE year.
 
she did not die under PAS nor was forced to get one. pretty much shows you why PAS protocol is still stringent and difficult to get.
 
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