Survivor of Non-Animal Tested Medicines

[Buffalo]

Purpose of this Thread
this is a safe haven for people like dreama who strongly do not believe in animal testing for medical purpose.
....
I think it is appropriate to start this thread... Are there anyone out there who is a survivor of non-animal tested medicines? Speak up and enlighten us!

Thank you, Jiro. The first thing that came to my mind is Lorenzo's Oil at
A Real-Life Sequel to 'Lorenzo's Oil' - washingtonpost.com Notice the part where the scientists thought the oil was dangerous.

Lorenzo passed away earlier this year at age 30 - BBC NEWS | Americas | Lorenzo's Oil boy is dead at 30

The oil works as long as it was given to the child before any of the symptoms appeared. The symptoms can't be reversed after one drinks the oil. It was too late for Lorenzo but he did survived so long with it.

 

[Jiro]

Thank you, Jiro. The first thing that came to my mind is Lorenzo's Oil at
A Real-Life Sequel to 'Lorenzo's Oil' - washingtonpost.com Notice the part where the scientists thought the oil was dangerous.

Lorenzo passed away earlier this year at age 30 - BBC NEWS | Americas | Lorenzo's Oil boy is dead at 30

The oil works as long as it was given to the child before any of the symptoms appeared. The symptoms can't be reversed after one drinks the oil. It was too late for Lorenzo but he did survived so long with it.

excellent example however.... the father did perform... "human testing" on his son. His son suffered though so i don't know how i feel about that but point is.... somebody's gotta suffer before the medicine is invented

 

[Buffalo]

excellent example however.... the father did perform... "human testing" on his son. His son suffered though so i don't know how i feel about that but point is.... somebody's gotta suffer before the medicine is invented

Please clarify your point. I thought you mean medicine that humans used that wasn't tested on animals.

I don't support animal testing because it involved tortures like breaking a monkey's head on purpose or dropping chemicals on rabbits' eyes. I might accept the idea of trying out new stuff on pets in order to help the pets. I have heard of how vets tried out new ways to help a dog with cancer. If that helped the dog, then just maybe it might help the human. I said just maybe because what works for dogs, might not works for humans. At least there is a cure for dogs.

Did you know that there is West Nile fever vaccine but it work only on equine animals like horses, zebras, donkeys, etc. It sounds like somebody did the testings on the equines. That is why I want to see human testings. Believe me there would be a long line for those testings for certain diseases like cancers, AIDS, etc.

 

[dreama]

Please clarify your point. I thought you mean medicine that humans used that wasn't tested on animals.

I don't support animal testing because it involved tortures like breaking a monkey's head on purpose or dropping chemicals on rabbits' eyes. I might accept the idea of trying out new stuff on pets in order to help the pets. I have heard of how vets tried out new ways to help a dog with cancer. If that helped the dog, then just maybe it might help the human. I said just maybe because what works for dogs, might not works for humans. At least there is a cure for dogs.

Did you know that there is West Nile fever vaccine but it work only on equine animals like horses, zebras, donkeys, etc. It sounds like somebody did the testings on the equines.

Exactly, I'm glad someone has some sense. They do test on humans at the moment after they've finished torturing the animals. It's called 'human trials' which comes right at the end.

What we need to do is to use computer modeling, adult stem cells, and other more updated methods first. Then when that is done we do 'human trials' but they would actually be a lot safer because of the updated methods that can predict human results better. We need to put more money into updating these alternates. That's where the hope for cures lies. NOT IN ANIMAL TESTING.

 

[Hear Again]

And because herbals are not tested, they are not quality controlled or dosage controlled, either. Many people have died as the result of such.

And, sometimes a product is discarded before it ever reaches the animal testing phase. The fact still remains that you cannot use humans as your first line of testing. It is unethical and strictly forbidden. In order to test on a living organism, which is a mandatory part of the procedure, animals must be used. The only way around it is to use humans for testing medicines and procedures that we know absolutely nothing about. Experimentation as it was conducted in Nazi Germany is exactly what your reasoning proposes.

 

[Jiro]

Please clarify your point. I thought you mean medicine that humans used that wasn't tested on animals.

Lorenzo's Oil wasn't animal-tested. The father tested it on his son. His son suffered while his father experimented with the medicine. I don't think that was ethical...

I don't support animal testing because it involved tortures like breaking a monkey's head on purpose or dropping chemicals on rabbits' eyes.

Don't confuse medical animal-testing with cosmetic animal-testing...

 

[Aleser]

The only point I want to dispute is the fact that this is down to the animal testing componant since scientists use other methods before and after animal testing and sometimes the evidence they got from testing animals is discarded as being irrevalant. Like with my tegretol. So why do they still do it? I've got no idea. It's not logic or sound to me.

In animal trails for restasis (cyclosporin), we found out that when putting the stuff on a bunch of pregnant rats and rabbits, they experienced a significant decrease in the fetuses weight as well as an increase in pre and post natal mortality- the high doses of restasis killed some of the rats and rabbits born from mothers using restasis. Before that point, no such risks had been assumed.

Do you suppose we should've skipped that step and went right along to testing it on human mothers and seeing if their babies died?

 

[jillio]

and many people died from modern medicines as well. How about this? Why is it that more and more people benefit more from marijuana (a natural herb) than modern medicines? And marijuana's not even animal-tested.

The marijuana issue is a whole 'nother issue. It does not cure, it alleviates symptoms. Hence, the push to legalize medical marijuana.

 

[jillio]

Exactly, I'm glad someone has some sense. They do test on humans at the moment after they've finished torturing the animals. It's called 'human trials' which comes right at the end.

What we need to do is to use computer modeling, adult stem cells, and other more updated methods first. Then when that is done we do 'human trials' but they would actually be a lot safer because of the updated methods that can predict human results better. We need to put more money into updating these alternates. That's where the hope for cures lies. NOT IN ANIMAL TESTING.

What part of "computerized modeling needs the input of human data" do you fail to understand? Or are you just ignoring this very relevent fact?

 

[Buffalo]

Lorenzo's Oil wasn't animal-tested. The father tested it on his son. His son suffered while his father experimented with the medicine. I don't think that was ethical...

What do you mean by Lorenzo suffered? The father save many of kids from the same fate his son was in. He found the cure but it was too late to reverse his son's symptoms. The cure had to be in place before any symptoms appear, hence the push for testing for this condition at birth.

Don't confuse medical animal-testing with cosmetic animal-testing...

What do you mean by that? I know rabbits are used for cosmetic animal-testing and breaking monkey's head is medical animal-testing. It is the torturing of the animals that I don't approved of whether it is for cosmetic animal-testing or medical animal-testing.

Not long ago, there was a dog who lost part of both hind legs in an accident. The doctor came up with unusual prothesises for the dog. It is a metal shaft that goes right into the bone and it ends with a rounded end that is sort of rubberized for traction so the dog won't slip. The idea is that maybe it might be a better leg prothesis for humans and they want to know how the skin fit over where the shaft met the leg bone. I have nothing againist that. He came up with this idea to help the dog and test new idea at the same time. Just don't count on what helps the dog, would also helps the human because that might not work that way.

 

[Jiro]

What do you mean by Lorenzo suffered? The father save many of kids from the same fate his son was in. He found the cure but it was too late to reverse his son's symptoms. The cure had to be in place before any symptoms appear, hence the push for testing for this condition at birth.

The medication wasn't perfected at first. It was experimental so it made him suffer while the father tried many times to perfect it. so in the end..... he found the cure for many kids at his son's expense. I'm not sure I like that

 

[Buffalo]

The medication wasn't perfected at first. It was experimental so it made him suffer while the father tried many times to perfect it. so in the end..... he found the cure for many kids at his son's expense. I'm not sure I like that

Could you please provide a link where it said that Lorenzo suffered from the medication? All I was able to find is that he suffered from the effects of ALD (Obituary: Lorenzo Odone - Telegraph), not from the effects of the medication. The picture of him a week before his death showed him to be calm. His father thinks he is alive for so long is because of the medication.

Ever cook with Canola? Canola is made from rapeseed oil. Rapeseed oil was used for cooking for hundreds of years. Canola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jiro]

Could you please provide a link where it said that Lorenzo suffered from the medication? All I was able to find is that he suffered from the effects of ALD (Obituary: Lorenzo Odone - Telegraph), not from the effects of the medication. The picture of him a week before his death showed him to be calm. His father thinks he is alive for so long is because of the medication.

Ever cook with Canola? Canola is made from rapeseed oil. Rapeseed oil was used for cooking for hundreds of years. Canola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

didn't you see the movie? yes i know that he was suffering from his illness but he suffered more with experimental drug. Don't you think that Lorenzo would feel anything from it?

 

[Buffalo]

didn't you see the movie? yes i know that he was suffering from his illness but he suffered more with experimental drug. Don't you think that Lorenzo would feel anything from it?

I saw the movie when it first came out. I don't remember much of it. Why don't you refresh my memory?

With movies, you have to be careful as Hollywood tends to change alot of facts to make it more dramatic. I don't always believe what was being said in the movies.

 

[Jiro]

I saw the movie when it first came out. I don't remember much of it. Why don't you refresh my memory?

With movies, you have to be careful as Hollywood tends to change alot of facts to make it more dramatic. I don't always believe what was being said in the movies.

that's true. But I believe it is logical that when trying out experimental drug, one would suffer from it - a bad side effect or something. Lorenzo was choking, gasping, having spasm, etc. It took a while till father made a perfect recipe.

 

[jillio]

The problem with being able to do animal testing for the type of disorder that Lorenzo had, is you would first have to find an animal with the disorder or created the disorder in the lab. Since it is very rare, the research dollars were not available for testing of treatments.

 

[Buffalo]

that's true. But I believe it is logical that when trying out experimental drug, one would suffer from it - a bad side effect or something. Lorenzo was choking, gasping, having spasm, etc. It took a while till father made a perfect recipe.

This link: Medicine - ALD - Lorenzo Odone is older but it has alot of information. The reason Lorenzo had trouble swallowing is because of ALD. "By now Lorenzo could
not swallow on his own, he was tube fed, he could not speak or see, and he was almost completely paralyzed ...... By December his levels were completely
normal and by February 1987 he could once again swallow on his own"

 

[Buffalo]

The problem with being able to do animal testing for the type of disorder that Lorenzo had, is you would first have to find an animal with the disorder or created the disorder in the lab. Since it is very rare, the research dollars were not available for testing of treatments.

There are companies who breed animals with disorders like Stargazer (mice with epilepsy). What do you mean by "the research dollars were not available for testing of treatments"?

 

[jillio]

There are companies who breed animals with disorders like Stargazer (mice with epilepsy). What do you mean by "the research dollars were not available for testing of treatments"?

Epilepsy is a fairly common disorder. The more people affected by the disorder, the more research dollars are available. For very rare disorders, like the one Lorenzo suffered from, research monies are limited.