Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

shel90 said:
Many people here havent taken linquistics classes so it is hard for them to understand where we are coming from. Before I took those classes, I had no idea and I probably wouldnt understand what u are saying so I can understand why they are confused.
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I agree, and I apologize if I seemed rude. I guess I just get tired of trying to explain to those who refuse to accept the information simply because they haven't been exposed to it. I will try to be more patient, and continue to attempt explanation because there are those, I realize, that are truly interested in learning.:slap: :giggle:
 
jillio said:
I agree, and I apologize if I seemed rude. I guess I just get tired of trying to explain to those who refuse to accept the information simply because they haven't been exposed to it. I will try to be more patient, and continue to attempt explanation because there are those, I realize, that are truly interested in learning.:slap: :giggle:
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Yea..the concept and complexities of language acquisition and linguistics are not really easy to understand. I struggled in my linguistics classes at first cuz it didnt make any sense to me at all. Now, it finally does. LOL!
 
but to continue to attempt to marginalize the thousands of ci children who have benefited from the ci and to disrespect them and their parents as well.

Accordingly, I am not going to engage in further discussion with you on this topic as it is pointless and a waste of my time.
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Rick, NO I am NOT marginalizing that population, but you don't understand that it's a combonation of hard work and luck. You really don't. You didn't answer my questions..........did your daughter have intensive speech and language services? Did she go to an oral school or program? Did she just benifit from normal parental involvement? There are CI kids who
I guess its basicly the same thing as the nature vs. nurture debate.
I am not saying that it wasn't hard work..........BUT, you don't realize that you were VERY lucky that the first methodology that you tried fit you like a glove. Especially since, your daughter was the first generation of CI kids.....A lot of sucess with them was very hit or miss. You are lucky your daughter did not require VERY intensive therapy such as auditory verbal, oral schools/programs........god your daughter pretty much suceeded in a public school with very minimal accomondations. I'm NOT marginalizing the "hard work".............but just talk to shel and her students who have the language abilty of little kids, even thou their parents "worked hard" with THEM on oral intervention.
 
deafdyke said:
Rick, NO I am NOT marginalizing that population, but you don't understand that it's a combonation of hard work and luck. You really don't. You didn't answer my questions..........did your daughter have intensive speech and language services? Did she go to an oral school or program? Did she just benifit from normal parental involvement? There are CI kids who
I guess its basicly the same thing as the nature vs. nurture debate.
I am not saying that it wasn't hard work..........BUT, you don't realize that you were VERY lucky that the first methodology that you tried fit you like a glove. Especially since, your daughter was the first generation of CI kids.....A lot of sucess with them was very hit or miss. You are lucky your daughter did not require VERY intensive therapy such as auditory verbal, oral schools/programs........god your daughter pretty much suceeded in a public school with very minimal accomondations. I'm NOT marginalizing the "hard work".............but just talk to shel and her students who have the language abilty of little kids, even thou their parents "worked hard" with THEM on oral intervention.
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:gpost::gpost: Marginalization occurs when a dominant society discounts the value of an individual based on superficial charactersitics, as as a result, the marginalized population is afforded lesser opportunity and benefit than the majority. It is a societal concept, not an individual one. The deaf/Deaf/HH population as a whole has been marginalized, and continues to be marginalized by dominant hearing society. Not on an individual basis, per se, but as a group.
 
Cloggy, I AM NOT marginalizing the hard work, BUT it IS a combonation of serendipitity and hard work. I mean its luck that rick's daughter did not have apraxia, that her (first generation) CI got her to functionally hoh levels, that they didn't end up in a school system where if you received sped services, you were automaticly labeled as being one of those "Ummmm who's President Bush?" types.
It DOES take a lot of hard work. But hard work alone isn't going to cut it, in situtions where a dhh kid has apraxia, where they're underserved in a school program, where their hearing device worked well and so on!
In some cases yes, it is exclusively due to hard work......but that's usually seen in families where they're so overprogrammed they give kids toys to increase their SAT scores! Most of the time, its due to a combonation of hard work AND everything falling into place. Like a family that is underinsured, doesn't have too many resources etc will have less chance of suceeding then a middle or upper class family (and I'd love to find out what percentage of AG Bellers are not too affluent. Would make an interesting study)
 
deafdyke said:
In some cases yes, it is exclusively due to hard work......but that's usually seen in families where they're so overprogrammed they give kids toys to increase their SAT scores! Most of the time, its due to a combonation of hard work AND everything falling into place. Like a family that is underinsured, doesn't have too many resources etc will have less chance of suceeding then a middle or upper class family (and I'd love to find out what percentage of AG Bellers are not too affluent. Would make an interesting study)
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You know I've very happy for those kids who have parents who care enough about their options for success in their adult lives that the 'overprogram' them and give them the latest 'trendy' gadgets to help them increase the SAT scores.

Not everyone , even those of us who grew up poor have bad experiences that we then put onto the entire population who may share some of our challenges. Being poor is not an excuse for not persuing what you need to for your children, deaf or not. Besides I see lots of 'poor' people today who have cars nicer then mine, the lastest gadgets (playstations, x boxes sat tv etc, which I probably don't cause they cost $$) and they certainly aren't afluent but they can 'afford' all the latest 'toys'. I probably am according afflutent to your 'assumptions', I also had the expectation that my children would work and achieve good grades at school, one had to work much harder then the other two, the last persents her own unique challenges. Personally I think alot of hoh individuals could use theraphys/statagies developed for people with CAPD to. There are many newer 'trendy' diagnoses that aren't used for the hearing impaired just because they concider those 'symptoms' in someone to be hoh as 'normal' for a hoh person so don't persue stratgies that help normal hearing people.

It actually took me a few years to figure out that hey, the 'teachers' who wrote those IEP's and talked the good talk really didn't give a crap about actually following through on the things in the IEP, it was just a job, and it was really easy to ignore those who were more of a challenge. btdt.
 
jag, Sigh............you're missing my point.
What I mean by hyperinvolved/ hyperprogrammed is not just a "parent being involved" or even a parent ensuring their kids do well. Nothing wrong with that at ALL. Heck some formal enrichment activties definitly benifit both kids and parents. But what I'm talking about when I refer to overprogramed/hyperprogramed is the type of parent who goes overboard with enrichment activtities. Like in the case of a kid with special needs, that means that the kid needs to be in a therapy type mode 24/7 without time for being a kid.
For parents of kids without special needs its the type of family where the norm mode is on getting the edge, b/c after all just imagine if Wittle Smashlie lands a job where
Oh and I'm aware of the fact that there are some poor people with some very poor decision making skills as to where their money goes. My mom works with them. One of her clients althou she had no place to live, went out and bought a purebred dog!
That said, a lot of poor folks don't have extra money for things like access to really good health care. Even "middle class" families have a ton of difficulty with access to health care! (and if you don't think so, you really haven't been paying attention to the news.
We're talking the BASICS here.........not just "oh wittle Smashlie needs some more auditory verbal therapy. They simply have no way to get auditory verbal therapy b/c it's a pure health care need. They need to pay for their ER visits or their prescription meds. Also poor people have to spend more time working and don't have too much time to spend with quality time with their kids. IYIYIYI!!!!!!!!!
 
deafdyke said:
For parents of kids without special needs its the type of family where the norm mode is on getting the edge, b/c after all just imagine if Wittle Smashlie lands a job where >>>>>

I'm aware of this attitude, and there is something to be said about it, since it's very difficult to 'retrain' a mentally disabled child once they get in a rut....

>>>>>
Oh and I'm aware of the fact that there are some poor people with some very poor decision making skills as to where their money goes. My mom works with them. One of her clients althou she had no place to live, went out and bought a purebred dog!
That said, a lot of poor folks don't have extra money for things like access to really good health care. Even "middle class" families have a ton of difficulty with access to health care! (and if you don't think so, you really haven't been paying attention to the news.>>>>>>

I paid for my own health insurance for years, at the time I got a job off the farm we were paying $400+ a month for ppo policy with a $1500 deductible and 20/80 to 10,000 after that. the most out of pocket per person came to hmm, about $3000/yr I think. and that was up to 2 people so if you had a really bad year you were out some big bucks. But we raised 4 kids on policies we purchased to cover our children. One does not 'need' to run to the drs for every sniffle, ache or pain. Even yearly physicals for kids aren't really that necessary. (imo, mine were very healthy) the only child who got/gets a yearly physical is the one with DS and that's because of the things that can be caused by her syndrome and the need to catch them early.

>>>>>>>>>>>
We're talking the BASICS here.........not just "oh wittle Smashlie needs some more auditory verbal therapy. They simply have no way to get auditory verbal therapy b/c it's a pure health care need. They need to pay for their ER visits or their prescription meds. Also poor people have to spend more time working and don't have too much time to spend with quality time with their kids. IYIYIYI!!!!!!!!!
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Yes I'm aware of that. My PPO did pay for ST for my daughter with DS one year when we requested it. Fairly unusual. SHe had that for about a year, with her MN care policy covering what the ins. didn't. There is insurance out there in most states for children. Just that there are also people out there who don't want to pay anything toward it so they don't persue it, actually I don't think MN care is that great, to me the cost was high for the benefit we got out of it for the one child who used it for a few years. When they decided to make my co pay $300 per month we dropped it. She was covered under our PPO policy which while it cost more was very much more cost effective for my family. so please do not tell me about the cost of basic policies and the poor, I had many quarters where making that payment really cut into the budget.

Oh and just for the record, I bought hearing aides for 3 people. Myself, and two of my daughters. I think the youngest had one pair paid for by the states medical insurance under the TEfra act. In that case, the audiologist told me that the state had two or three aides they had approved for kids with her degree of hearing loss and she picked the one she felt was the best. The last couple of times I've paid for them myself, it's a MUCH eaiser process and the only limit on the choice is how much you can pay.
 
Cloggy said:
Yes you are.... straight after the comma....
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Cloggy,

You got it, this is what they have been doing for years going all the way back to Harlan Lane. They label your child "lucky", a "special case", "one of the very few", etc. and once done, then they no longer have to deal with your child. However, as you and I know, our children are very similar to many other kids with cochlear implants.

So no matter how hard they try to marginalize them, it never works.
Rick
 
Hmm, that is worrisome as I would hate the idea of implanting a child that could recover from deafness but it sure makes me think, if they could recover, what is causing them to hear again and is there a way to stimulate nerve growth at that age?
 
netrox said:
Hmm, that is worrisome as I would hate the idea of implanting a child that could recover from deafness but it sure makes me think, if they could recover, what is causing them to hear again and is there a way to stimulate nerve growth at that age?
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All the children in the study concerned suffered from a condition called auditory neuropathy, which means that their auditory nerve isn't working properly when they are born but the equipment for the middle/outer ear is okay. I imagine that this particular group will be targetted as ensuring that more could not be done.

For all other children of other etiologies where there is obvious damage to the hair cells etc they are not going to spontaneously develop hearing again.
 
Cloggy and Rick, NO we're NOT saying that your kids are "special cases" or the exception. We know that there are significent numbers of oral sucesses out there. However, what YOU two aren't acknowleding is that a) there have ALWAYS ALWAYS been many oral sucesses, even BEFORE CI!
What we are saying is that your sucess has more to do with a combonation of luck and hard work, then it has to do with hard work alone.
That doesn't take away from your effort..........but you are VERY lucky to have had access to things like good doctors, good insurance, good therapists and so on. We can point you to just as many kids whose parents tried hard with them to be oral but who didn't suceed, we can point you to many kids who could speak well, but really took off acheivement wise when they received the gift of a full toolbox....................Oh and Rick for your generation YES your daughter WAS the exception. Most dhh kids of the early and mid nineties still required significent special educational and other area help.
It's changing............I agree. But whether that's due to improved technology, or the fact that its now considered the "norm" in some families to be overprogrammed (which fits in perfectly with the goal of oral only as life being an eternal therapy session)
Besides, back when hearing aids were first becoming popular, I'm sure that MANY people back then thought that HAs heralded a sea change in the prospects for dhh kids overall.
Hey.........back in the '60's, 70's and 80's and mid 90s (til CI became popular) parents like you insisted that most dhh kids could get access to the hearing world by hearing aids! It's just a thing of history repeating itself.
Cloggy and Rick...........the sitution with Sign vs speech with dhh people, is exactly like the sititiopn with other special needs. Maybe we should stop fighting about methodology and brainwashing our kids about how using speshal things is a "crutch", and maybe concentrate on the probality that maybe those "speshal needs things could provide the key to ACHIEVEMENT for kids with special needs!
The track record for special needs kids who use "mainstream" methodologies has not been impressive........like blind kids who use talking books or large print haven't done better then Braille users.
Kids with physical disablities who refuse to use wheelchairs, walkers and other adaptive equiptment haven't done better then kids who use them.
Same with oral only kids. Some of them have done amazing things, but overall the track record hasn't been impressive.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy and Rick, NO we're NOT saying that your kids are "special cases" or the exception. We know that there are significent numbers of oral sucesses out there. However, what YOU two aren't acknowleding is that a) there have ALWAYS ALWAYS been many oral sucesses, even BEFORE CI!
What we are saying is that your sucess has more to do with a combonation of luck and hard work, then it has to do with hard work alone.
That doesn't take away from your effort..........but you are VERY lucky to have had access to things like good doctors, good insurance, good therapists and so on. We can point you to just as many kids whose parents tried hard with them to be oral but who didn't suceed, we can point you to many kids who could speak well, but really took off acheivement wise when they received the gift of a full toolbox....................Oh and Rick for your generation YES your daughter WAS the exception. Most dhh kids of the early and mid nineties still required significent special educational and other area help.
It's changing............I agree. But whether that's due to improved technology, or the fact that its now considered the "norm" in some families to be overprogrammed (which fits in perfectly with the goal of oral only as life being an eternal therapy session)
Besides, back when hearing aids were first becoming popular, I'm sure that MANY people back then thought that HAs heralded a sea change in the prospects for dhh kids overall.
Hey.........back in the '60's, 70's and 80's and mid 90s (til CI became popular) parents like you insisted that most dhh kids could get access to the hearing world by hearing aids! It's just a thing of history repeating itself.
Cloggy and Rick...........the sitution with Sign vs speech with dhh people, is exactly like the sititiopn with other special needs. Maybe we should stop fighting about methodology and brainwashing our kids about how using speshal things is a "crutch", and maybe concentrate on the probality that maybe those "speshal needs things could provide the key to ACHIEVEMENT for kids with special needs!
The track record for special needs kids who use "mainstream" methodologies has not been impressive........like blind kids who use talking books or large print haven't done better then Braille users.
Kids with physical disablities who refuse to use wheelchairs, walkers and other adaptive equiptment haven't done better then kids who use them.
Same with oral only kids. Some of them have done amazing things, but overall the track record hasn't been impressive.
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Exactly! That's why I feel the oral-only approach is just too risky and in the oral-only approach, the children are usually being taught by people who have no experience working with deaf/hoh children.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy and Rick, NO we're NOT saying that your kids are "special cases" or the exception. We know that there are significent numbers of oral sucesses out there. However, what YOU two aren't acknowleding is that a) there have ALWAYS ALWAYS been many oral sucesses, even BEFORE CI!
What we are saying is that your sucess has more to do with a combonation of luck and hard work, then it has to do with hard work alone.
That doesn't take away from your effort..........but you are VERY lucky to have had access to things like good doctors, good insurance, good therapists and so on. We can point you to just as many kids whose parents tried hard with them to be oral but who didn't suceed, we can point you to many kids who could speak well, but really took off acheivement wise when they received the gift of a full toolbox....................Oh and Rick for your generation YES your daughter WAS the exception. Most dhh kids of the early and mid nineties still required significent special educational and other area help.
It's changing............I agree. But whether that's due to improved technology, or the fact that its now considered the "norm" in some families to be overprogrammed (which fits in perfectly with the goal of oral only as life being an eternal therapy session)
Besides, back when hearing aids were first becoming popular, I'm sure that MANY people back then thought that HAs heralded a sea change in the prospects for dhh kids overall.
Hey.........back in the '60's, 70's and 80's and mid 90s (til CI became popular) parents like you insisted that most dhh kids could get access to the hearing world by hearing aids! It's just a thing of history repeating itself.
Cloggy and Rick...........the sitution with Sign vs speech with dhh people, is exactly like the sititiopn with other special needs. Maybe we should stop fighting about methodology and brainwashing our kids about how using speshal things is a "crutch", and maybe concentrate on the probality that maybe those "speshal needs things could provide the key to ACHIEVEMENT for kids with special needs!
The track record for special needs kids who use "mainstream" methodologies has not been impressive........like blind kids who use talking books or large print haven't done better then Braille users.
Kids with physical disablities who refuse to use wheelchairs, walkers and other adaptive equiptment haven't done better then kids who use them.
Same with oral only kids. Some of them have done amazing things, but overall the track record hasn't been impressive.
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:h5::h5::h5::h5::h5:
 
Also, Auditory Neuropathy (in my experience) is the source of less than 2 % of all congenital profound bilateral hearing impairments. Other sources are 98+ %. I just want to keep reiterating that point because it would be very sad if people read this article and think "oh, maybe I should delay my child's implant to see if they recover their hearing." Auditory Neuropathy is readily diagnosable with one (or several) of ASSR/ABR/BAER tests combined with an OAE test. If, however, someone wants to delay implanting due to a conclusive diagnosis of Auditory Neuropathy in conjunction with this article and on the advice of their medical service provider, I totally support that.

Sheri

R2D2 said:
All the children in the study concerned suffered from a condition called auditory neuropathy, which means that their auditory nerve isn't working properly when they are born but the equipment for the middle/outer ear is okay. I imagine that this particular group will be targetted as ensuring that more could not be done.

For all other children of other etiologies where there is obvious damage to the hair cells etc they are not going to spontaneously develop hearing again.
Click to expand...
 
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