Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam's IOUs

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TXgolfer said:
The Founders were against government charity. Especially Jefferson. My statement is not anti SSA though. Just anti SSA the way it is being ran currently. There must be a way to earn money with the program when there are not enough people to pay in. Treasury Bonds don't cut it.
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Government Charity? That's not how I see it. I see it as Social Responsibility. That's why we get taxed for public education, library, and civil duty. Now about Jefferson. That's just one man. each Founding Father had a different view. One had Federalist view... elitist view..... masonic view.... and so on. That's why they worked together to hash it out.
 
one thing to add - it is expected that we all help out with each other in the time of needs especially during disaster or war. and now we can't help each other in the time of needs during peacetime?

that's a sham. real sham.
 
Jiro said:
one thing to add - it is expected that we all help out with each other in the time of needs especially during disaster or war. and now we can't help each other in the time of needs during peacetime?

that's a sham. real sham.
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For that last line, somebody stole Jiro's "e"!!:lol:
 
Jiro said:
one thing to add - it is expected that we all help out with each other in the time of needs especially during disaster or war. and now we can't help each other in the time of needs during peacetime?

that's a sham. real sham.
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"Government charity" their words (Jefferson).....not mine.

I am saying we need to stop borrowing from it, and create a long term plan for re-funding it rather than expanding it.
 
Foxrac said:
Do you means that US government did borrow from SSA to spend on war, education, highway expansion, renovation of federal building, FBI, etc for example?
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Yes....That is what Treasury bonds do
 
Jiro said:
well - since you're calling this a Ponzi Scheme, I have to question if you even know what it is because in Ponzi Scheme, the victims don't get paid back. Just because the ratio on the # of workers to retirees continues to shrink..... does not mean it's a Ponzi Scheme.
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That's not true. You can get paid back as long as you pull your money out before everyone else does. It all collapses when too many people try to pull out. That's what happened with Bernie Madoff. Some lucky people made a lot of money from his scheme before financial panic set in. When everyone tried to pull out and the money wasn't there, that's when he got busted.

We're seeing the same thing happen in slow motion with Social Security. It is indeed a Ponzi scheme. Rather than forcing me to pay into it with a payroll tax, I would prefer to put it into my own account where I can choose whether it goes into the stock market, the bond market, or some other sort of fund. If the stock market goes bust, at least it was my decision to take on the risk, and it's better that I get some of my money back than have it go to a Ponzi scheme where I have to wonder if the system will collapse before I ever see a penny.

By the way, as bad as Social Security is, the real elephant in the room is Medicare. That thing will make us rue the day we ever heard the words "Great Society" if we don't seriously reform it soon. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be.
 
darkdog said:
That's not true. You can get paid back as long as you pull your money out before everyone else does. It all collapses when too many people try to pull out. That's what happened with Bernie Madoff. Some lucky people made a lot of money from his scheme before financial panic set in. When everyone tried to pull out and the money wasn't there, that's when he got busted.

We're seeing the same thing happen in slow motion with Social Security. It is indeed a Ponzi scheme. Rather than forcing me to pay into it with a payroll tax, I would prefer to put it into my own account where I can choose whether it goes into the stock market, the bond market, or some other sort of fund. If the stock market goes bust, at least it was my decision to take on the risk, and it's better that I get some of my money back than have it go to a Ponzi scheme where I have to wonder if the system will collapse before I ever see a penny.

By the way, as bad as Social Security is, the real elephant in the room is Medicare. That thing will make us rue the day we ever heard the words "Great Society" if we don't seriously reform it soon. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be.
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just so you know - Social Security is to pay for unemployment benefit, disability, medicaid, medicare, and SSI.

So what's your plan for these unfortunate people? go away?

and beside - what are you whining about? a small piece of your pay goes to Social Security and you'll still have PLENTY enough for your 401k investment (OPTIONALLY). In the end when you retire, you'll reap in your 401K plus Social Security. As far as I'm concerned - Social Security is continuing to pay back and will continue to pay back.

Like I said - the worrisome projection is just an estimation. Yes at this current pace - people within my generation will not see a dime. We obviously are not going to stay on that fixed path and let it happen. We will do something about it. That's the beauty about this country being fluidic. We adapt and response.
 
How can it be a Ponzi scheme when the administration who set up the SSA didn't even see the expenses of the Cold War or global terrorism coming?

The idea is sound, but the people who are controlling the budget lost foresight of the original intentions.
 
souggy said:
Other countries have programs similar to SSA, and they don't have a deficit problem... nor are they worried about people cashing them in. :)

It's the misuse of government money that led you guys into this mess, not social security.
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Amen!!
 
Jiro said:
just so you know - Social Security is to pay for unemployment benefit, disability, medicaid, medicare, and SSI.

So what's your plan for these unfortunate people? go away?

and beside - what are you whining about? a small piece of your pay goes to Social Security and you'll still have PLENTY enough for your 401k investment (OPTIONALLY). In the end when you retire, you'll reap in your 401K plus Social Security. As far as I'm concerned - Social Security is continuing to pay back and will continue to pay back.

Like I said - the worrisome projection is just an estimation. Yes at this current pace - people within my generation will not see a dime. We obviously are not going to stay on that fixed path and let it happen. We will do something about it. That's the beauty about this country being fluidic. We adapt and response.
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Well, let's see that fix before we spend more.......Just as the wave of baby boomers is about to hit we are extended unemployment benefits and suspending 6 months of employer contributions on new hires(Jobs Bill). Like I said earlier that is burning the candle at both ends.

And the guys spending the money have no idea what things cost. They just passed the $15b job bill. Already they are saying oops make that $18b. That happened today. A 20% increase in less than 10 days. Is it any wonder most doubt the health care figures.
 
TXgolfer said:
"Government charity" their words (Jefferson).....not mine.

I am saying we need to stop borrowing from it, and create a long term plan for re-funding it rather than expanding it.
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"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." -Jefferson.

Now that is taken out of context. That quote is better fit for bailouts and military-industrial complex, not SSA. Now let me refer you to James Madison quote -

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
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nothing to do with SSA. it's the deep corruption and greed by our politicians sleeping with lobbyists and corporations. We see this in GWB, Clinton, Obama, and so on. The Founding Fathers want us to stop being sheep and to start demanding our Congressmen to do service for us, not for them.
 
TXgolfer said:
Yes....That is what Treasury bonds do
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Oh, I got it so no surprised about US government used SS funds to spending on anything than any related to SS program.
 
souggy said:
How can it be a Ponzi scheme when the administration who set up the SSA didn't even see the expenses of the Cold War or global terrorism coming?

The idea is sound, but the people who are controlling the budget lost foresight of the original intentions.
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Well it fits the definition because it is a system relies on the contribution of others rather than making a profit elsewhere.

But the system could have worked.....maybe. The cold war and global terrorism should never have affected social security because the money should have never been borrowed for those purposes in the first place.

I say maybe because I still don't see how we would have covered the baby boomer situation.
 
Include choices for privatization, let the consumers decide.
 
kokonut said:
Include choices for privatization, let the consumers decide.
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that's what 401K is for. I'm sure quite a majority of people is going to opt for private retirement funds. so what are we to do for these unfortunate people? go away?

you do not believe we have a social responsibility for disabled and old people who do not make much?
 
Koko,

Are you saying that my sick and bedridden wife is better off being screwed because she can't do physical labor nor take care of herself?

What do you think we should do with people like my wife? Put them all to death?

Yiz
 
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