Skill Communication & Talk

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Chuck said:
I dont think you understand me and this is exactly what Im talking about. Youre taking offense because you think Im being insulting which is not the case. I said he could be very intelligent but the way he writes doesnt make him seem that way. Like I said before and if youve actually took the time to read the entire thread. I have stated I have intelligent deaf friends but their writing is horrible.
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I am not keen on how you are using the poor words about the ASL users. I am the one of those ASL users.
 
Sorry I blocked private messages. I opened it again. Look Im not saying youre stupid. But thats how people in the 'real world' view people who cant write correctly. ANYONE who cant write correctly, not just deafies but hearies too. I was giving my view that ASL is horrible because it changes the way deafies write.
 
Chuck said:
Sorry I blocked private messages. I opened it again. Look Im not saying youre stupid. But thats how people in the 'real world' view people who cant write correctly. ANYONE who cant write correctly, not just deafies but hearies too. I was giving my view that ASL is horrible because it changes the way deafies write.
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It's your view because you are hanging out with your deaf friends who use ASL who writes poorly. I don't know about them, and what if they have limited communication between them and their parents or family. Maybe they had not read the book in their early age, and maybe they had poor teachers. I had a horrible teachers at Deaf school because they "hearing" do not know how to sign right, do not know how to teach and talk to us like we are stupid but i know they did not mean to but do not know how to teach.
 
Thats true. Ill concede that much. I just feel ASL is not a good language for deafies to learn because when they finish high school and jump in the real world its like oh crap. and I hate how alot of deafies struggle. Its hard for me as HoH so I know its REALLY hard for my full deaf friends.
 
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Chuck said:
Thats true. Ill concede that much. I just feel ASL is not a good language for deafies to learn because when they finish high school and jump in the real world its like oh crap. and I hate how alot of deafies struggle. Its hard for me as HoH so I know its REALLY hard for my full deaf friends.
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Maybe it is based on your experiences in life. Some of those Deaf people with ASL users who i know except i am not sure about HOH and Deaf Oral, have normal life in many ways. I am sure that I did struggle at some point in life. overall, I didn't have a major frustration with my life the way it went. I found a way of understanding the hearing culture and always find a way to work it out with the hearing people. I have a normal life here. I thank to my parents for raising me with the morals, ethics and work principles that led to be someone who I can be.
 
Chuck said:
No offense, but his writing does make him LOOK stupid, when he could very well be intelligent. Writing is not supposed to be a jigsaw puzzle the rest of us are supposed to figure out. ASL to writing is horrific to understand.
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I am hearing and my first impression was not that he or anyone else is stupid, but that English isn't their first language. Maybe because I live in a diverse multi-cultural city I'm used to seeing all kinds of writing English poorly, and it's because the people are translating from their heads to paper. I didn't know any English when I first came to this country so I know what it's like to write poor English, but I think the content of my writing and not the structure showed that I wasn't stupid. At least I think so.

ASL to writing may be horrific to understand at first, but after a while, you start to understand the jigsaw puzzle and it's not so difficult to interpret. At least that's how it is for me when I read ASL to writing.

But, yes. I see your point that ASL to writing makes things difficult in the working world.
 
Chuck said:
I believe every deaf person should spend more time writing and reading. Ive met alot of deafies who hate to read and some say reading bores them. We have to admit. Some deafies writing SUCKS. and they think Im being rude but I care for them and want them to understand its only holding them back from good jobs, more knowledge, etc.

Which is why I HATE ASL. It doesnt force them to use words like 'the' 'and' and other adjectives that clarifies and expands their communication as SEE would. I believe SEE is superior because it promotes better writing, although I do know ASL is more efficient for 'general concept' communication for a lack of a better way to describe it. If I had deaf kids I would force them to learn SEE.
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Chuck said:
Honestly, I think most deafies love ASL more because it allows them to communicate quickly and allows a more personalized formed of communication. But in the end it holds them back.
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Chuck, you demonstrate a great misunderstanding of ASL and English. ASL is not a written language as its sole purpose is to provide a way for Deaf and their hearing counterparts to communicate with one another.

SEE is not a superior language because first of all, SEE is not a formal language. Secondly, SEE was invented by a hearing individual, not a Deaf individual. Thirdly, SEE was first invented to be used in the English classroom to aid in writing and reading instruction. However, it seeped into other areas of Deaf Education. As a result, SEE has held d/Deaf people back from being able to understand things conceptually. It does not generally promote better writing because students in general will still lack the conceptualization of what they read and write.

ASL does not hold back Deaf people from being able to write and read fluently. It is the teaching methods that hold them back! Many Deaf Education teachers lack the understanding of how to help d/Deaf children keep ASL and English separate with them understanding the underlying structure that are similar in each language. Hence, d/Deaf kids practice code mixing instead of code switching in which they are unable to express their ideas correctly. The correct teaching method to employ in a Deaf classroom would be bilingual-bicultural in which this teaching method uses ASL correctly to teach English concepts and vice versa.

This concept is similar to how one would teach English to an individual who immigrated from Mexico to the USA and is prelingually dominant in Spanish. One doesn't create a language that is the mixture of English and Spanish to teach the individual English. One uses Spanish and English ONLY to teach the individual how to translate from Spanish into English.

It is no different for d/Deaf people who use ASL and are learning English!

Frisky Feline said:
Maybe it is based on your experiences in life. Some of those Deaf people with ASL users who i know except i am not sure about HOH and Deaf Oral, have normal life in many ways. I am sure that I did struggle at some point in life. overall, I didn't have a major frustration with my life the way it went. I found a way of understanding the hearing culture and always find a way to work it out with the hearing people. I have a normal life here. I thank to my parents for raising me with the morals, ethics and work principles that led to be someone who I can be.
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Define normal, Frisky. Hehe.
 
respectyoda said:

This concept is similar to how one would teach English to an individual who immigrated from Mexico to the USA and is prelingually dominant in Spanish. One doesn't create a language that is the mixture of English and Spanish to teach the individual English. One uses Spanish and English ONLY to teach the individual how to translate from Spanish into English.

It is no different for d/Deaf people who use ASL and are learning English!
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This is how it was for me learning English when I only spoke/read Italian. :thumb:
 
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Writing and speaking English are two separate things. As is writing and ASL. Could it be, just a thought, that it's more about a failing education system that perpetuates the stereotype that deaf = lower intelligence. That deaf and HOH kids aren't challenged academically as they should be?
 
Poison_Quills said:
Writing and speaking English are two separate things. As is writing and ASL. Could it be, just a thought, that it's more about a failing education system that perpetuates the stereotype that deaf = lower intelligence. That deaf and HOH kids aren't challenged academically as they should be?
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Wrong/
 
Poison_Quills said:
Writing and speaking English are two separate things. As is writing and ASL. Could it be, just a thought, that it's more about a failing education system that perpetuates the stereotype that deaf = lower intelligence. That deaf and HOH kids aren't challenged academically as they should be?
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Bottesini said:
Wrong/
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Poison_Quills said:
K-dokey, how am I wrong?
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Bottesini said:
Do research on how deaf people learn, and then come back.

I am not actually here to educate you.
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By saying the part I have added the bold to you are not helping more people understand the why of your viewpoint.
 
Jane B. said:
By saying the part I have added the bold to you are not helping more people understand the why of your viewpoint.
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Do I care about your opinion?

Not in the slightest.

By your bolded sectiont, I encourage the hearing newcomer to gain a little knowledge without just walking in and giving emotional opinions in a bid for popularity.

As for you, you just enjoy finding fault ..
 
Poison_Quills said:
Writing and speaking English are two separate things. As is writing and ASL. Could it be, just a thought, that it's more about a failing education system that perpetuates the stereotype that deaf = lower intelligence. That deaf and HOH kids aren't challenged academically as they should be?
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Yes, the failing education system does perpetuate the stereotype that deaf people have a lower intelligence. This is because hearing people only base their findings on writing assessments of d/Deaf people instead of using an assessment that would analyze one's signing skills. Hearing people do not understand that d/Deaf people are capable of expressing answers/ideas in ASL that are equivalent of how a hearing person would express in written English.

Writing is just one kind of intelligence. So hence, writing is not the only way to assess one's intelligence. This situation has been around for a long long time. For example, people who come from different countries were (and still are) forced to take assessments in English which produces lower scores and the notion from the assessment givers that they are not intelligent. However, researchers proved that if they were given an assessment in their FIRST language, the amount of intelligence they had was high.
 
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