Selective abortion.

[Oceanbreeze]

yes they "look" happy when you work with them... but sadly - with their mental capacity of young children, they are dependent on others and their parents die. Who are left to take care of them? the state? Not always the relatives are willing to take them in. Working with them and caring for them 24/7 are a completely different world. You as a worker do not have to care for them financially and socially so you're missing out another half of the reality....... like Palin and her down-syndrome kid.

A responsible mother has to think about the future of her disabled child in case she deceases.

She obviously thinks all disabilities are the same. They're not. Why is it so hard to believe that I would view this the way I do? I'm a pragmatist. Life wasn't all bad, but it also wasn't a trip to Disney, either. Given the choice, I honestly am not sure I would have made the same choice my Mother did. I also will not apologize for this viewpoint.

 

[Jiro]

If you were aborted, what happen to your friends, family, people you know, and go on? What do you think they look like without you?

but we cannot speculate on that by using your current existence as an example. For example - if you were aborted... the circumstance will not lead to this current situation. Your friends, people you know will probably never been born or lead a very different lifestyle than now. They could have been killed by some random events early one. Who knows? That's why I don't like to speculate on past because it just doesn't work that way. Whatever happens happens. The world continues to move on with or without you or me or anybody.

sorrrrryyyy Jessie if I'm too pragmatic for your taste but that's how I am. Current situation matters the most to me. Future matters some to me. Past doesn't matter to me anymore. Let bygone be bygone.

 

[KarissaMann05]

but we cannot speculate on that by using your current existence as an example. For example - if you were aborted... the circumstance will not lead to this current situation. Your friends, people you know will probably never been born or lead a very different lifestyle than now. They could have been killed by some random events early one. Who knows? That's why I don't like to speculate on past because it just doesn't work that way. What happens happens. The world continues to move on with or without you or me or anybody.

sorrrrryyyy Jessie if I'm too pragmatic for your taste but that's how I am. Current situation matters the most to me. Future matters some to me. Past doesn't matter to me anymore. Let bygone be bygone.

Oooh okay. I was like, "Huh!? So is people you know who not really importance to you? That's cruel... *looks so sad*" But you have your own POV, so never mind. ^_^;;

My opinon, abortion does prevent the future in either positive or negative way... It already happens right now, each second by second of time...

 

[Jiro]

Oooh okay. I was like, "Huh!? So is people you know who not really importance to you? That's cruel... *looks so sad*" But you have your own POV, never mind. ^_^;;

My opinon, abortion does prevent the future in either positive or negative way... It already happens right now, each second by second of time...

who knows? Maybe if your mom have only you, your life would be lot better or worse. Maybe if you went to different school, your life would be lot better or not. Who knows? Whatever the case is - you will continue to meet anybody who are important to you. Whenever you're born - even if you were born 1 month later or 1 month early.... you will still continue to meet anybody important to you.

Point is... CARPE DIEM!!!!!! People say - life's short but no. I don't believe that. Life is very long. vvvvvvveeerrrrrrryyyyyy long. it's just that people waste a huge portion of it and then in the end - they regret it. CARPE DIEM, JESSIE! Don't look at past. Don't look at future. Look at NOW!

We are the only species on Earth who knows when we're going to die (not accurately but you know what I mean)

 

[KarissaMann05]

who knows? Maybe if your mom have only you, your life would be lot better or worse. Maybe if you went to different school, your life would be lot better or not. Who knows? Whatever the case is - you will continue to meet anybody who are important to you. Whenever you're born - even if you were born 1 month later or 1 month early.... you will still continue to meet anybody important to you.

Point is... CARPE DIEM!!!!!! People say - life's short but no. I don't believe that. Life is very long. vvvvvvveeerrrrrrryyyyyy long. it's just that people waste a huge portion of it and then in the end - they regret it. CARPE DIEM, JESSIE! Don't look at past. Don't look at future. Look at NOW!

We are the only species on Earth who knows when we're going to die (not accurately but you know what I mean)

CARPE DIEM? What is that?

 

[Jiro]

CARPE DIEM? What is that?

latin for "SIEZE THE DAY!"

 

[dreama]

I am not so unfeeling as to think this decision would be an easy one to make. It most certainly isn't. My position is this... Just because we can do it, should we? In other words, just because medical science is to the point where they can do extraordinary things to save a life, should they?

I pose this question in the event of extremely young premature infants. Just because you can keep that infant alive in a NICU, should you? In most cases, if they succeed in saving that little one's life, it is almost always severely disabled. Alot of preemies are deaf/blind. Some have severe cerebral palsy and so on. At what point is it pertinent to simply not intervene?

Yes of course they should. I'm deaf blind. Do you think that if I get sick and need to go to hospital they should just let me die. Having a supposidly 'lesser' quality of life and everything ect etc. I sure hope I don't have you as my doctor!

I WANT TO LIVE!!!

 

[Jolie77]

I wouldn't ever presume that abortion would be an easy decision to make. It doesn't make it a right one though. It is always wrong to kill wether the killing was easy to do or not.

How is it wrong when one knows that they cannot be able to provide the needs for a disabled child (if they were not aborted)? Some disabilities are adaptive to be able to live with but unfortunately, it isn't the case since there are some other types of disabilities that can be a horror to the child and to it's parents as well.

The key word is - selective which means having the function or power of selecting; making a selection. So, therefore, by being selective to the abortion, it gives us a choice to whether to abort or not.


Mod's Note; -

Guys, On this note - It is understandable that there are different religion views which contains with the abortion issue but however, I am asking you guys not to sway this into a religion spectacle. Thank you.

 

[Jiro]

Dreama - I wasn't aware that you're deaf and blind but I have to ask. I'm puzzled - How do you help people with down syndrome in your condition? How do you know they were happy?

I think it's cool that you don't limit yourself as a "useless cripple." You went out and did your deed for community despite of your disability which can be very difficult.

 

[dreama]

Can you explain why you still disagree on some of the issues?

I understand what you are trying to say from being a pro-life but at the same time, Let's put yourself in a position for a minute - If you were to be pregnant with a fetus which you know has a severe disability that contains a short life span (for instance, the child only will survive for 2-5 years), would you still go with the abortion or not? Would you rather proceed with the abortion and to save yourself from a heartbreak knowing that your child will die, regardless?

Yes I would go through with the pregnancy. Sometimes doctor's get it wrong you know. Even if the baby only lives a couple of years then I cherish those years. A normal baby could also die in a couple of years too. The baby might get lukemia. Who knows. At least If I know when the baby will die I can prepare myself.

 

[Jiro]

Yes I would go through with the pregnancy. Sometimes doctor's get it wrong you know. Even if the baby only lives a couple of years then I cherish those years. A normal baby could also die in a couple of years too. The baby might get lukemia. Who knows. At least If I know when the baby will die I can prepare myself.

but the baby will have an agonizing life. He/she will smile now and then he/she will be suffering most of time and no amount of pain medications can alleviate it that much. That is cruel and selfish to subject that child to painful life just to appease to your belief. That's why I believe in Assisted Suicide Law in Oregon. Let them die with dignity. To prolong the suffering just for the sake of some religious belief or whatever is cruel. absolutely cruel.

My answer to Jolie's hypothetical question - yes I will choose to terminate the birth if the child will have only a few years to live.

 

[Jolie77]

Yes I would go through with the pregnancy. Sometimes doctor's get it wrong you know. Even if the baby only lives a couple of years then I cherish those years. A normal baby could also die in a couple of years too. The baby might get lukemia. Who knows. At least If I know when the baby will die I can prepare myself.

This is getting interesting.

Of course, We know that some time doctors makes mistakes. They're not perfect either and they're humans just as the rest as we are too.

I find it interesting when you say you would go through with the pregnancy knowing that you could be setting yourself for a heartbreak but... on the other hand, if the child had a severe disability that needs to be tapped into a lot of resources, medications, therapies, etc - Would it be every worth while to let the child live through this kind of sufferings in duration of his/her short life?

 

[dreama]

The key word is - selective which means having the function or power of selecting; making a selection. So, therefore, by being selective to the abortion, it gives us a choice to whether to abort or not.


Mod's Note; -

As a disabled woman I'm afraid Selective abortion's are the VERY WORST types of abortion there are. I don't feel so strongly against aborting a healthy baby at 9 weeks as I do a disabled baby at 30 weeks. They are both wrong but the second type of abortion upsets me a lot more. Since if 12 weeks is for normal babies. 12 weeks should be also for EVERYBODY. Not 12 weeks or 24 weeks for normal babies and up till birth for the disabled because by saying that you say it is wrong to be disabled. As a disabled person myself I don't believe that for a minute. I just believe being disabled is DIFFERANT. I wouldn't even WANT to be normal. That would be ever so boring.

I've experienced lots of differant types of disabled people in my work as a masseur. Some had mental age of only a few months old. In a wheelchair with only limited movement but they were really HAPPY people. So their lives meant a lot to THEM. That's why I think we should always save disabled babies lives and not try to kill them EVER.

 

[shel90]

We are our own worst punishers, methinks!

Wow, everyone feels so strongly on this issue of abortion. Nothing new! For me, of course -- I still support having the choice to have an abortion or not. Um, selective abortion. I don't want others to decide if an abortion is ok or not ok in circumstances. I want to have full power of that at my own expense.

If others want to call me a murderer when I decide to get an abortion, then fine. I will know who my real friends are and be more 'selective' of new friends. Imagine wanting to be friends with a homophobe! That is a consequence of having extreme beliefs without making room that others believe differently from where I sit. Think about it.

Exactly...it is all about respecting each other's decision and if some cant respect their friend's decision to get an abortion, then they are better off not being friends with that person or vice versa.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Yes of course they should. I'm deaf blind. Do you think that if I get sick and need to go to hospital they should just let me die. Having a supposidly 'lesser' quality of life and everything ect etc. I sure hope I don't have you as my doctor!

I WANT TO LIVE!!!

That's nice. It's also a statement coming from a woman who can advocate for herself, but what about those who cannot? Someone has to make decisions for babies and children every single day. I would hope that the right decision is being made, but I am not sure it always is.

 

[dreama]

This is getting interesting.

Of course, We know that some time doctors makes mistakes. They're not perfect either and they're humans just as the rest as we are too.

I find it interesting when you say you would go through with the pregnancy knowing that you could be setting yourself for a heartbreak but... on the other hand, if the child had a severe disability that needs to be tapped into a lot of resources, medications, therapies, etc - Would it be every worth while to let the child live through this kind of sufferings in duration of his/her short life?

I'm having problems with Severe light sensitivity at the moment. Sometimes I'm just having to lie their feeling someone is bashing me about the head with a frying pan. Sure it's no bed of roses when that happens and such a thing is not fun as I'd rather be up and about. However I live for the times that I am happy and that is definately worth all that pain. I don't consider myself as selfish. I've kept disabled pets alive when my vet told me they were better off dead. They can be hard work, especially if you are not well yourself which sometimes is the case but I'd hate to live in a world where doctor's told humans that babies should be killed same as vet told me my pet should be killed because she had hind leg paralises but still had quality of life.

Sure life isn't always easy and pain can make one unhappy but at the end of it all I'd rather be alive and in pain then have everything end because I am determined to carry on with this life no matter what life throws at me. My dad said mum who was in a lot of pain with cancer did not want to die either. Unfortunately she did die though. But even with so much suffering she still was determined to stay around. It's something for people who promote Euthanasia to think about.

 

[netrox]

I'm having problems with Severe light sensitivity at the moment.

What is light sensitivity? Is it allergy to sunshine?

 

[Jiro]

What is light sensitivity? Is it allergy to sunshine?

I believe it is hypersensitivity to light. Just think of it as a very heightened sense of vision.

 

[jillio]

I wouldn't ever presume that abortion would be an easy decision to make. It doesn't make it a right one though. It is always wrong to kill wether the killing was easy to do or not.

In that case, you are also an anti-war protester, and an active protester against the death penalty in all cases, we can presume?

 

[jillio]

She obviously thinks all disabilities are the same. They're not. Why is it so hard to believe that I would view this the way I do? I'm a pragmatist. Life wasn't all bad, but it also wasn't a trip to Disney, either. Given the choice, I honestly am not sure I would have made the same choice my Mother did. I also will not apologize for this viewpoint.

Nor should you have to apologize.