Parents of a deaf student plan to sue SAU 16 for not providing an adequate education

where? I don't see ASL, all I saw they said the school offered signed language. People often refer SEE as signed language.
 
deafgal001 said:
where? I don't see ASL, all I saw they said the school offered signed language. People often refer SEE as signed language.
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You are right, they don't name ASL, I assumed from the mother's quote saying that is was a different language, and not English, that it was ASL.
 
faire joure How many schools/dhh programs out there have a voice off policy? And the methodology may be more intense but there's no evidence that intense oral training gives better results. Meaning better spoken language/higher verbal IQ results. There ARE some superstars yes who don't even feel like they need ASL, BUT many kids who have aquirred oral abilty, find ASL to really capitalize on their nautrual visual processing abilty. Heck even a lot of kids who missed out on ASL in high school, end up going to NTID and becoming fluent in it!
The ONLY reason why oral only is "better" is b/c ASL is viewed as a "crutch"
Most kids at deaf schools can and do speak, and also get a pretty hefty dose of speech therapy. The ONLY reason why it isn't "enough" is b/c the experts view ASL as a crutch.
 
deafdyke said:
faire joure How many schools/dhh programs out there have a voice off policy? And the methodology may be more intense but there's no evidence that intense oral training gives better results. Meaning better spoken language/higher verbal IQ results. There ARE some superstars yes who don't even feel like they need ASL, BUT many kids who have aquirred oral abilty, find ASL to really capitalize on their nautrual visual processing abilty. Heck even a lot of kids who missed out on ASL in high school, end up going to NTID and becoming fluent in it!
The ONLY reason why oral only is "better" is b/c ASL is viewed as a "crutch"
Most kids at deaf schools can and do speak, and also get a pretty hefty dose of speech therapy. The ONLY reason why it isn't "enough" is b/c the experts view ASL as a crutch.
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ALL bi-bi schools are voice off. It is in the definition. You have to be voice off to do ASL.

Actually, research shows that kids who do AV alone end up with better language then kids who do a combination of methods. So, you are wrong in that regard.

Also, statistically you are wrong about "most" people with a hearing loss learning ASL. There are 30 million people in the US with a hearing loss and less than 1 million use ASL.
 
faire_jour said:
No, but instruction all day in a voice off ASL enviroment and immersion in fluent spoken language and utilizing auditory skills to understand that spoken language IS.
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As I recall from my oral school days, I didn't have speech class every day. I think it was 3x a week for no more than 15 to 30 mintues. I don't ever recall utilizing audtiory skills other than jsut wearing body and BTEs. My best friend was so deaf she could not bet any benefits from hearing aids.

Then I had speech for 15 mintues in mainstream and I had to wear the Phonic Ear.

When I went to VSDB and Model Secondary School for the Deaf, I didn't stop speaking nor did I stop wearing HAs though I did stop wearing them for long after the age of 19 due to recruitment issues.

My ex bf went to a similar program but he never picked up any speech skills or any auditory skills and his family comes from a even more upscale background than mine does. I think he came to a deaf school later than I did.

I am under the impression that you'd want a more intensive program than what I ahd in oral class.
 
faire_jour said:
ALL bi-bi schools are voice off. It is in the definition. You have to be voice off to do ASL.

Actually, research shows that kids who do AV alone end up with better language then kids who do a combination of methods. So, you are wrong in that regard.

Also, statistically you are wrong about "most" people with a hearing loss learning ASL. There are 30 million people in the US with a hearing loss and less than 1 million use ASL.
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In class only.
 
deafskeptic said:
As I recall from my oral school days, I didn't have speech class every day. I think it was 3x a week for no more than 15 to 30 mintues. I don't ever recall utilizing audtiory skills other than jsut wearing body and BTEs. My best friend was so deaf she could not bet any benefits from hearing aids.

Then I had speech for 15 mintues in mainstream and I had to wear the Phonic Ear.

When I went to VSDB and Model Secondary School for the Deaf, I didn't stop speaking nor did I stop wearing HAs though I did stop wearing them for long after the age of 19 due to recruitment issues.

My ex bf went to a similar program but he never picked up any speech skills or any auditory skills and his family comes from a even more upscale background than mine does. I think he came to a deaf school later than I did.

I am under the impression that you'd want a more intensive program than what I ahd in oral class.
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This thread has nothing to do with what I want. It is about this parent and her choices.

I am curious though, when you say you were in a oral school, was that a deaf school that used spoken language, or just a mainstream, hearing school? They are totally different things.

I am not personally familiar with Clarke, but I have had my daughter in two different, highly respected oral schools and they had some similarities. For starters, you DO get speech therapy every single day. You also get one on one language therapy and one on one reading tutoring. CID did both small group literature (the teacher reads and the group discusses the stories. It teaches language, problem solving, higher level cognition, etc) AND they did one on one reading tutoring (the child reads, decodes, learns phonics, phonetic and phonemic awareness (rhyming, riddles, etc))

This is way more language focused and student driven than any mainstream school can be.
 
faire joure, you're right. Most people with hearing loss are adult aquirred losses. They generally don't use ASL at ALL. But it is very common in the pediatric deaf and hard of hearing communties. Even hoh kids get placed in Deaf Ed, and exposed to ASL.
Second of all, the kids enrolled in AVT represent a very select population. It's like SAT tutoring for upperclass suburbs. you yourself have said that AVT isn't generally covered by insurance!
Also, where did you get that "fact" that AVT produces better language? From the AVTers? Again, the ONLY reason why it appears to produce better language is b/c AVT considers ASL a crutch. It's a BUSINESS, just like the tobacco industry! You can produce ALL sorts of statistics and stuff to prove anything. Is there research indicating that AVT produces an on par verbal IQ? Verbal IQ indicates mastery of spoken language. Also, part of the reason for better mastery of language is that they tend to encourage the kids who don't quite cotton to speech to ASL earlier. Ever hear of cherry picking data?
Were you aware that past research indicated that even 30% of AVTers eventually learn ASL?
 
deafdyke said:
faire joure, you're right. Most people with hearing loss are adult aquirred losses. They generally don't use ASL at ALL. But it is very common in the pediatric deaf and hard of hearing communties. Even hoh kids get placed in Deaf Ed, and exposed to ASL.
Second of all, the kids enrolled in AVT represent a very select population. It's like SAT tutoring for upperclass suburbs. you yourself have said that AVT isn't generally covered by insurance!
Also, where did you get that "fact" that AVT produces better language? From the AVTers? Again, the ONLY reason why it appears to produce better language is b/c AVT considers ASL a crutch. It's a BUSINESS, just like the tobacco industry! You can produce ALL sorts of statistics and stuff to prove anything. Is there research indicating that AVT produces an on par verbal IQ? Verbal IQ indicates mastery of spoken language. Also, part of the reason for better mastery of language is that they tend to encourage the kids who don't quite cotton to speech to ASL earlier. Ever hear of cherry picking data?
Were you aware that past research indicated that even 30% of AVTers eventually learn ASL?
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Research shows that AV kids are the only group of deaf kids that test at normal levels for math, reading, language and self-esteem. No other methodology can claim those results.
 
how can that be? I thought children are in AVT for a short awhile. and then go to public school?
 
Sigh....faire jour, they're cherry picking the stats. They are only counting the kids who are superstars. Like they wouldn't count the kids who did it as a supplementary thing.
You don't understand that it's not the METHODOLOGY. Rather, it's b/c parents who are VERY VERY highly involved with their kids. Not just normal involement. But rather the type of parents where it's Expected that little Jr. will go to Name Brand College, and they're superstars in everything.
 
deafdyke said:
Sigh....faire jour, they're cherry picking the stats. They are only counting the kids who are superstars. Like they wouldn't count the kids who did it as a supplementary thing.
You don't understand that it's not the METHODOLOGY. Rather, it's b/c parents who are VERY VERY highly involved with their kids. Not just normal involement. But rather the type of parents where it's Expected that little Jr. will go to Name Brand College, and they're superstars in everything.
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Sigh, deafdyke, you are prejudiced and judgemental and completely uninformed. You make up information and comment on things you have no idea about.
 
faire_jour said:
Sigh, deafdyke, you are prejudiced and judgemental and completely uninformed. You make up information and comment on things you have no idea about.
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Don't ever look down on Deafdyke like that. Not very nice. Hearing people has look down on d/Deaf people thinking that hearing people know all about deafness and think that they are right. You are some piece of work. :roll:
 
Bebonang said:
Don't ever look down on Deafdyke like that. Not very nice. Hearing people has look down on d/Deaf people thinking that hearing people know all about deafness and think that they are right. You are some piece of work. :roll:
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I was talking down to her with the exact same tone she first used with me. perhaps you missed that, or more likely, you just didn't care.
 
Faire jour, No. If you'd ever taken a Research Methodologies course, and learned about socilogical factors affecting stuff, you would not be attacking me. A family who pursues AVT as a WHOLE lifestyle (not just auditory verbal therapy as a supplement) is akin to those families that overprogram their kids with stuff that will give them an edge. Can't let them just be a kid....but gotta pack every single second with "enrichement" like Kumon, or studying or whatever Or who are the type of Mama Roses/ parents of the kids who are on Toddlers in Tiaras.
Going AVT as a lifestyle (not just attending some AVT sessions....that's actually not that bad of an idea) is pretty much speech therapy therapy therapy 24/7. Gotta make sure wittle Jr has 24/7 speech therapy, and not even let him be just a kid. Very easy to burn out on....
 
deafdyke said:
Faire jour, No. If you'd ever taken a Research Methodologies course, and learned about socilogical factors affecting stuff, you would not be attacking me. A family who pursues AVT as a WHOLE lifestyle (not just auditory verbal therapy as a supplement) is akin to those families that overprogram their kids with stuff that will give them an edge. Can't let them just be a kid....but gotta pack every single second with "enrichement" like Kumon, or studying or whatever Or who are the type of Mama Roses/ parents of the kids who are on Toddlers in Tiaras.
Going AVT as a lifestyle (not just attending some AVT sessions....that's actually not that bad of an idea) is pretty much speech therapy therapy therapy 24/7. Gotta make sure wittle Jr has 24/7 speech therapy, and not even let him be just a kid. Very easy to burn out on....
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You are clearly nasty about parents who want good things for their children. You constantly say bad things about parents with money and are obsessed with inner city kids being better off residential. You are prejudice.
 
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