Out of context verses

[sculleywr]

It's NOT a servant, it's a SLAVE.

Many slave masters treated their slaves well but it doesn't make slavery okay at all!

You are showing a grand total of ZERO knowledge of the difference between servitude and slavery. For one, in the Bible, the servant CHOSE to be a servant to pay off his debt. For another, slavery as you know it did not show up until the AD years. There were some who were ne'erdowells, but you always have that.

 

[Boult]

You are showing a grand total of ZERO knowledge of the difference between servitude and slavery. For one, in the Bible, the servant CHOSE to be a servant to pay off his debt. For another, slavery as you know it did not show up until the AD years. There were some who were ne'erdowells, but you always have that.

From: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary;

Slave
Jer. 2:14 (A.V.), but not there found in the original. In Rev.
18:13 the word "slaves" is the rendering of a Greek word meaning
"bodies." The Hebrew and Greek words for slave are usually
rendered simply "servant," "bondman," or "bondservant." Slavery
as it existed under the Mosaic law has no modern parallel. That
law did not originate but only regulated the already existing
custom of slavery (Ex. 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Lev. 25:44-46; Josh.
9:6-27). The gospel in its spirit and genius is hostile to
slavery in every form, which under its influence is gradually
disappearing from among men.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48:

Servitude \Serv"i*tude\, n. [L. servitudo: cf. F. servitude.]
1. The state of voluntary or compulsory subjection to a
master; the condition of being bound to service; the
condition of a slave; slavery; bondage; hence, a state of
slavish dependence.
[1913 Webster]

You would have sold your king to slaughter,
His princes and his peers to servitude. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

A splendid servitude; . . . for he that rises up
early, and goes to bed late, only to receive
addresses, is really as much abridged in his freedom
as he that waits to present one. --South.
[1913 Webster]

2. Servants, collectively. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

After him a cumbrous train
Of herds and flocks, and numerous servitude.
--Milton.
[1913 Webster]

3. (Law) A right whereby one thing is subject to another
thing or person for use or convenience, contrary to the
common right.
[1913 Webster]

Note: The object of a servitude is either to suffer something
to be done by another, or to omit to do something, with
respect to a thing. The easements of the English
correspond in some respects with the servitudes of the
Roman law. Both terms are used by common law writers,
and often indiscriminately. The former, however, rather
indicates the right enjoyed, and the latter the burden
imposed. --Ayliffe. Erskine. E. Washburn.
[1913 Webster]

Penal servitude. See under Penal.

Personal servitude (Law), that which arises when the use of
a thing is granted as a real right to a particular
individual other than the proprietor.

Predial servitude (Law), that which one estate owes to
another estate. When it related to lands, vineyards,
gardens, or the like, it is called rural; when it related
to houses and buildings, it is called urban.
[1913 Webster]

-----------------

From WordNet (r) 2.0:

servitude
n : state of subjection to an owner or master or forced labor
imposed as punishment; "penal servitude"

-----------------

From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0:

39 Moby Thesaurus words for "servitude":
absolutism, attendance, bond service, bondage, captivity, control,
debt slavery, deprivation of freedom, disenfranchisement,
disfranchisement, domination, employ, employment, enslavement,
enthrallment, feudalism, feudality, helotism, helotry,
indentureship, ministration, ministry, peonage, restraint, serfdom,
serfhood, servility, servitium, servitorship, slavery, subjection,
subjugation, tendance, thrall, thralldom, tyranny, vassalage,
villenage, yoke



-----------------

From Bouvier's Law Dictionary, Revised 6th Ed (1856):

SERVITUDE, civil law. A term which indicates the subjection of one person to
another person, or of a person to a thing, or of a thing to a person, or of
a thing to a thing.
2. Hence servitudes are divided into real, personal, and mixed. Lois
des Bat. P. 1, c. 1.
3. A real or predial servitude is a charge laid on an estate for the
use and utility of another estate belonging to another proprietor. Louis.
Code, art. 643. When used without any adjunct, the word servitude means a
real or predial servitude. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1.
4. The subjection of one person to another is a purely personal
servitude; if it exists in the right of property which a person exercises
over another, it is slavery. When the subjection of one person to another is
not slavery, it consists simply in the right of requiring of another what he
is bound to do, or not to do; this right arises from all kinds of contracts
or quasi con tracts. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1, art. 1.
5. The subjection of persons to things or of things to persons, are
mixed servitudes. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1, art. 2.
6. Real servitudes are divided into rural and urban. Rural servitudes
are those which are due by an estate to another estate, such as the right of
passage over the serving estate, or that which owes the servitude, or to
draw water from it, or to water cattle there, or to take coal, lime and wood
from it, and the like. Urban servitudes are those which are established over
a building fur the convenience of another, such as the right of resting the
joists in the wall of the serving building, of opening windows which
overlook the serving estate, and the like. Dict. de Jurisp. tit. Servitudes.
See, generally, Lois des Bat. Part 1 Louis. Code, tit. 4; Code Civil, B. 2,
tit. 4; This Dict. tit. Ancient Lights; Easements; Ways; Lalaure, Des
Servitudes, passim.


now me....

 

[Rose Immortal]

It's NOT a servant, it's a SLAVE.

Many slave masters treated their slaves well but it doesn't make slavery okay at all!

It doesn't. But I think that by suggesting even a little mercy, the Bible could start to wake up that nagging feeling in the back of someone's mind that maybe the whole setup was wrong. Then add the New Testament verses that start to call for equality (the most radical statement being the one that occurs in Galatians), and you've got the seeds for a social revolution. Maybe by going slower, massive-scale warfare was avoided--at least, warfare on an even greater scale than we've seen.

Historically it makes sense when one considers that Jesus needed a certain amount of time on Earth, given the limitations on communication in that time, to get His message across before being killed as a potential revolutionary. Even if you and I don't agree on Jesus' divinity, I think you would probably agree that He was tremendously aware of how society worked, and what effects different words and actions would have in the long run.

Unfortunately during the time before slavery was abolished, people DID suffer terribly. But I lay the blame for that on the feet of those individuals who perpetrated their acts of cruelty and failed to listen to their conscience, and tried to read the Bible selectively to justify their selfishness, instead of as a whole.

 

[deafdyke]

Netrox and Boult, will you marry me?

 

[Teresh]

But I lay the blame for that on the feet of those individuals who perpetrated their acts of cruelty and failed to listen to their conscience, and tried to read the Bible selectively to justify their selfishness, instead of as a whole.

I would place blame on the same people, but for different reasons. The conscience is a fickle thing... For different people, it says different things. I have no doubt in my mind that slaveowners in the American sense honestly thought that they were doing the right thing.

 

[Rose Immortal]

I'm really not sure how they could look into the eyes of the people they were hurting and continue to think of them as property no different than livestock. Even a simple application of the Golden Rule should've shown them that's not how they would want to be treated. And there were abolitionists for quite some time; in the face of that especially, I don't think there's any excuse.

That said, in modern day, I think there are things we do wrong in large numbers, that we may not be aware of. I expect to be called upon to answer for it just the same as those slaveowners, if that's the case.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, really, all the different views about the slaves, now there were slaves in all over the world in different religions, but all has differences about the slaves. Now, in the national news it was somewhere in the 90s is the time when I saw the news, he's a great black senator, even KKK ruin the symbol of confederate flags, interesting enough, as a black senator says that black people need to re educate about the history of the slaves. Tho he said there are some cruel masters and the way they sell them. But he said in the light of his generation, his family had an awesome master and treat them very well and have slaves own family be together etc. Now, in the O T, problem is as a slave that happen in 1800s does not have the same parallel as of OT. Even tho it is no use to take serious of these issues which we ourselves weren't there. But rather where we live today, we do have slaves as a servitude, like this slaves obey your master and master, you know you have a Master who is over you. So God has a fairness of all degree. As of Grace, we should treat each other with love, and forgiveness with all cost, and even if its hard to bear thru massives, dynamic experience, as you see compare what Jesus did on the cross and still forgives us, so we do the same with others.

 

[Boult]

Netrox and Boult, will you marry me?

**cough** **cough** WHAT?

 

[sculleywr]

From: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary;




From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48:

Servitude \Serv"i*tude\, n. [L. servitudo: cf. F. servitude.]
1. The state of voluntary or compulsory subjection to a
master; the condition of being bound to service; the
condition of a slave; slavery; bondage; hence, a state of
slavish dependence.
[1913 Webster]

You would have sold your king to slaughter,
His princes and his peers to servitude. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

A splendid servitude; . . . for he that rises up
early, and goes to bed late, only to receive
addresses, is really as much abridged in his freedom
as he that waits to present one. --South.
[1913 Webster]

2. Servants, collectively. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

After him a cumbrous train
Of herds and flocks, and numerous servitude.
--Milton.
[1913 Webster]

3. (Law) A right whereby one thing is subject to another
thing or person for use or convenience, contrary to the
common right.
[1913 Webster]

Note: The object of a servitude is either to suffer something
to be done by another, or to omit to do something, with
respect to a thing. The easements of the English
correspond in some respects with the servitudes of the
Roman law. Both terms are used by common law writers,
and often indiscriminately. The former, however, rather
indicates the right enjoyed, and the latter the burden
imposed. --Ayliffe. Erskine. E. Washburn.
[1913 Webster]

Penal servitude. See under Penal.

Personal servitude (Law), that which arises when the use of
a thing is granted as a real right to a particular
individual other than the proprietor.

Predial servitude (Law), that which one estate owes to
another estate. When it related to lands, vineyards,
gardens, or the like, it is called rural; when it related
to houses and buildings, it is called urban.
[1913 Webster]

-----------------

From WordNet (r) 2.0:

servitude
n : state of subjection to an owner or master or forced labor
imposed as punishment; "penal servitude"

-----------------

From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0:

39 Moby Thesaurus words for "servitude":
absolutism, attendance, bond service, bondage, captivity, control,
debt slavery, deprivation of freedom, disenfranchisement,
disfranchisement, domination, employ, employment, enslavement,
enthrallment, feudalism, feudality, helotism, helotry,
indentureship, ministration, ministry, peonage, restraint, serfdom,
serfhood, servility, servitium, servitorship, slavery, subjection,
subjugation, tendance, thrall, thralldom, tyranny, vassalage,
villenage, yoke



-----------------

From Bouvier's Law Dictionary, Revised 6th Ed (1856):

SERVITUDE, civil law. A term which indicates the subjection of one person to
another person, or of a person to a thing, or of a thing to a person, or of
a thing to a thing.
2. Hence servitudes are divided into real, personal, and mixed. Lois
des Bat. P. 1, c. 1.
3. A real or predial servitude is a charge laid on an estate for the
use and utility of another estate belonging to another proprietor. Louis.
Code, art. 643. When used without any adjunct, the word servitude means a
real or predial servitude. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1.
4. The subjection of one person to another is a purely personal
servitude; if it exists in the right of property which a person exercises
over another, it is slavery. When the subjection of one person to another is
not slavery, it consists simply in the right of requiring of another what he
is bound to do, or not to do; this right arises from all kinds of contracts
or quasi con tracts. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1, art. 1.
5. The subjection of persons to things or of things to persons, are
mixed servitudes. Lois des Bat. P. 1, c. 1, art. 2.
6. Real servitudes are divided into rural and urban. Rural servitudes
are those which are due by an estate to another estate, such as the right of
passage over the serving estate, or that which owes the servitude, or to
draw water from it, or to water cattle there, or to take coal, lime and wood
from it, and the like. Urban servitudes are those which are established over
a building fur the convenience of another, such as the right of resting the
joists in the wall of the serving building, of opening windows which
overlook the serving estate, and the like. Dict. de Jurisp. tit. Servitudes.
See, generally, Lois des Bat. Part 1 Louis. Code, tit. 4; Code Civil, B. 2,
tit. 4; This Dict. tit. Ancient Lights; Easements; Ways; Lalaure, Des
Servitudes, passim.


now me....

Now, look at it from the Greek word with its Hebrew connotation, "A doulos." Here is a definition of the word translated bond-servant:

Doulos, The Definition

The Greek word δουλοσ or doulos literally translates into slave or bondservant. To the Greeks a doulos was an individual that had no rights, bound forever to his/her master. Their entire being was under complete subjection to their master. Their only purpose in life was to accomplish the will of their master. But this definition is incomplete, as Paul, Peter, and the other disciples add a Hebrew connotation to the word. With this Hebrew connotation the servitude of the individual is no longer forced, it is now willingly. Choosing to willing give up oneself completely to a master, not a forced submission. Paul, Peter, James, Jude, and John all referred to themselves as doulos of Christ Jesus in their writing in the New Testament and we are encouraged to join them in this illustrious position or total and complete servitude. Though we now understand what the word means, it could still be a little hard to understand why any one would make this kind of commitment. The answer to this is at the very heart of the Gospel, “because God loves you”. It is because God loves us so much, so perfectly, so completely that we should strive to abandon our own thoughts, purposes, choices, wills in order to be a doulos of Christ.

Source: www.bond-servants.com

Now that I havbe put it in the context of the culture, do you understand? Or do I need to beat you upside the head with a wet noodle? (OOOOO, , that sounds fun.)

 

[netrox]

Now that I havbe put it in the context of the culture, do you understand? Or do I need to beat you upside the head with a wet noodle? (OOOOO, , that sounds fun.)

Note that it said:

"It is because God loves us so much, so perfectly, so completely that we should strive to abandon our own thoughts, purposes, choices, wills in order to be a doulos of Christ."

You're just a spiritual Uncle Tom. Only fools would choose to be slaves for their masters.

 

[Rose Immortal]

If you're talking about a human master such as you or any other mere human being--even the best person currently in the world--you can bet my response would be "HELL NO". However, I have found the spiritual journey akin to what a sword (or any other metalsmithed object) goes through as it is being forged. The process isn't always pleasant but the end result is to be much, much more refined than before--more tempered, less brittle. I know that's not the most modern of metaphors, but it fits. A human being in a position of power over a person is not like that, though...with a human being it's just plain old abuse and a power trip.

 

[XBGMER]

in Egypt, those who build pyramids for the pharaohs were never slaves. That have been discovered that they were loyal servants of pharaohs. It was just that christians distorted the view of who built the pyramids.

why? because there was a community area where workers had a family, store, bread factory etc. they all worked in shift. so they worked for Pharaohs in exchange for currency and foods. (kinda like working for Govt. and get best benefits than all other jobs. you know?)

I think you confused yourself.. in the beginning of Egyptian dynasty, they were white but many years later on may have battled against Nubian which was black, so that could be the case that one pharaoh. was overthrown and had a black pharaoh.
here's a article for you read. . Nubian is now Sudan not Egypt.
http://www.discover.com/issues/dec-05/features/nubia-black-pharaohs/

time to educate yourself in history again eh

you make me so laughing so hard.. I must admit you that I dont aware about africa.. I knew more about slavery history where my genernations was involved. But I once read articles and history that what I learned little. I just tell those people that what I noticed Pharaoh kings had more physically feature negroes but i believe that Pharaoh kings were mulattoes. Have you heard about olemc before? olemc kings were nergoes in mexico or south america I am not sure.. You can find it online... for example I had son is mulatto, which mean he is son of black and white but his skin is more white gold than mine because he took mother's blood genetics more than mine blood. he has grey/ green eyes and beautiful silky curly. he had some black's feature that what I called him "MULATTO". anyway most people dont believe me, He is my son. one time police come to my son when he was alone play game in gamestore i was there.. I came to grab my son away from police try to attemp and talk him. police realized that he is my son.

 

[sculleywr]

Note that it said:

"It is because God loves us so much, so perfectly, so completely that we should strive to abandon our own thoughts, purposes, choices, wills in order to be a doulos of Christ."

You're just a spiritual Uncle Tom. Only fools would choose to be slaves for their masters.

Final post to Netrox: I am sick and tired of you not listening to me. You are ignoring everything I say and you don't even understand the culture. If you would get out of your box and learn the Israeli culture of the time, you would understand it a lot more. Goodbye. :Slaps with a wet noodle:

 

[sculleywr]

If you're talking about a human master such as you or any other mere human being--even the best person currently in the world--you can bet my response would be "HELL NO". However, I have found the spiritual journey akin to what a sword (or any other metalsmithed object) goes through as it is being forged. The process isn't always pleasant but the end result is to be much, much more refined than before--more tempered, less brittle. I know that's not the most modern of metaphors, but it fits. A human being in a position of power over a person is not like that, though...with a human being it's just plain old abuse and a power trip.

I compare it to a vessel being formed. Got to go through the kiln to reach the final result.

 

[deafdyke]

Because they twisted the scriptures.

Yes, and yet that twisting and misinterpreation is still going on! You have not given any independant links saying that this or that person said what you're saying.

 

[sculleywr]

Yes, and yet that twisting and misinterpreation is still going on! You have not given any independant links saying that this or that person said what you're saying.

Please, unless you haven't noticed, I didn't provide the information. I just interpreted the information. I have cited as my definition source the website www.bond-servants.com, and www.blueletterbible.org. If you want the sourcs used to show that people used the scripture in support of slavery, you can check in with the provider of the information, Netrox.

That, and without explaining the "twisting and misinterpretation" that "is still going on," you are outside the range of debate and into the area of personal vendetta. You provide no independent links or book sources, and you flame out so much that I could get some hot dogs grilled in time for the fourth of July. Got any substantial arguments?