Out of context verses

[Teresh]

And there was a way to become a servant for life.

Source? I don't know of any way for someone to become a servant for life, but I do know that the Rabbis partially abolished the exoneration of debts because that inevitably had the effect of keeping the poor poor (the rich would not loan money to the poor if they knew they would not be getting it back).

What happened with slavery is when people misused the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, expanding them to include races. It was a twisting of the Bible.

Indeed... Slavery was made into an abomination in the US. It was bad to begin with, but when people started to believe that the Bible said they could own another human being because of the person's race... That's when it went from terrible to ridiculous.

 

[netrox]

No, the old stuff in the Bible alone. Sola scriptura. The BIble doesn't take a stand on either side of servitude. Matter of fact, Christians are to be as servants. Women are not considered property in the BIble. And if ignorance is of science, you might want to read the parts that the Bible was right on all along. "The circle of the earth," and "The life is in the blood," Come to mind. Those disband the scientific beliefs of the time, such as the flat earth theory and the theory of bleeding.

Once again, you are mistaken.

The fact that God did NOTHING to condemn slavery or should be included in the Ten Commandments is extremely appalling. It degrades the sancity of a human person.

Let me quote:

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." Ex.21:20-21

Basically, it means that it's ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die since they're just "money" to them!

Even the Old Testament teaches you how to sell your daughter (Ex.21:2-6). Would you sell your daughter to me? I'd like to beat her since God allows her to be just "money."

Slavery is extremely a grave sin in my view and that's why God is no hero to me, God is a disgrace for not doing anything about the slavery. There is absolutely no justification for slavery, short term or long term, whatsoever.

Where did the Bible say the earth was a sphere? The Bible often said, "to the ends" (which clearly implies the earth was flat and has edges) or "the vault" or "dome" (a common belief back then) but not a globe/sphere.

Blood in life is not a new concept. It's been around for many years. Ever heard of animal sacrfices? They know there's life in the blood.

 

[sculleywr]

Source? I don't know of any way for someone to become a servant for life, but I do know that the Rabbis partially abolished the exoneration of debts because that inevitably had the effect of keeping the poor poor (the rich would not loan money to the poor if they knew they would not be getting it back).

From Deuteronomy 15, speaking of the year of Jubilee, which happens every seven and 50 years:

15And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.

16And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee;

17Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.

One of my best friends is part of a Christian group named using the Hebrew word for bondservant: A doulos. Since there is no way to have an aul shoved through her ear, she had her ear pierced and got earrings.

Indeed... Slavery was made into an abomination in the US. It was bad to begin with, but when people started to believe that the Bible said they could own another human being because of the person's race... That's when it went from terrible to ridiculous.

Actually, the slavery we know of is actually from Africa, where the white population there enslaved the indigenous Africans.

 

[Teresh]

From Deuteronomy 15, speaking of the year of Jubilee, which happens every seven and 50 years:

15And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.

16And it shall be, if he say unto thee, I will not go away from thee; because he loveth thee and thine house, because he is well with thee;

17Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.

I stand corrected then.

Actually, the slavery we know of is actually from Africa, where the white population there enslaved the indigenous Africans.

Of this I am aware, though it's not a topic discussed much in American schools (at least not in this area) as the issue of slavery in this country was considered a more important topic by far.

 

[sculleywr]

I stand corrected then.



Of this I am aware, though it's not a topic discussed much in American schools (at least not in this area) as the issue of slavery in this country was considered a more important topic by far.

That is true. I did not know that until I took Western World History in college. Most high schoolers are taught that because the teachers want to make the forefathers of this country look bad. For a good history book, you could try Streams of Civilisation.

 

[Teresh]

That is true. I did not know that until I took Western World History in college. Most high schoolers are taught that because the teachers want to make the forefathers of this country look bad. For a good history book, you could try Streams of Civilisation.

I learned about it at the end of my high school years... My history teacher decided he wanted to spend a day doing a lecture on Leopold II of Belgium.

 

[deafdyke]

Why is that it's ok to dismiss those people but it's not ok with Christians? Simply, because Christians think they're right despite concrete evidence to the contrary.

You definitely need to get out of the box and look at the whole world, not me. I was a practicing Christian and I clearly know what I am talking about. I was STUPID to not look beyond what I was taught. I was neurotic and I was obsessed with the Christian belief. I praised Jesus. I went to churches. I believed the Bible was the answer to all problems.

But as I get older and more educated, I realized the Bible is not geniune. I realized my errors and it took a while to get myself "de-programmed" from the Christian mentality.

So, I figured, why not create this thread so people can learn that the Bible isn't as what Christians have been saying and that they can be assured that they're ok to question or reject the Bible.

Netrox, you rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are there any independant sources that say that what's in the Bible is true? If the Bible WAS true, don't you think that God or whatever Higher Power there is, would have seeded the world with religions that are simlair and have striking commonalities to christianity?
The answer is He didn't. The Higher Power made all sorts of different religions and beliefs. That is b/c man cannot adquatly experiance something that is higher then themselves. It comes out all garbeled and not the way God intended it. Hey, man says this themself, in one of their theories drawn from the Bible, the TULIP of Calvinism. T=Total depravity. If man is totally depraved then, they can't serve as a transmitter for God. It would be like using a Morse Code telegraph line, to transmit the information of the Internet.

The BIble doesn't take a stand on either side of servitude. Matter of fact, Christians are to be as servants. Women are not considered property in the BIble.

Oh really? Then how come the Bible was used pre Civil war to justify slavery?

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Once again, you are mistaken.

The fact that God did NOTHING to condemn slavery or should be included in the Ten Commandments is extremely appalling. It degrades the sancity of a human person.

Let me quote:

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." Ex.21:20-21

Basically, it means that it's ok to beat your slaves as long as they don't die since they're just "money" to them!

Even the Old Testament teaches you how to sell your daughter (Ex.21:2-6). Would you sell your daughter to me? I'd like to beat her since God allows her to be just "money."

Slavery is extremely a grave sin in my view and that's why God is no hero to me, God is a disgrace for not doing anything about the slavery. There is absolutely no justification for slavery, short term or long term, whatsoever.

Where did the Bible say the earth was a sphere? The Bible often said, "to the ends" (which clearly implies the earth was flat and has edges) or "the vault" or "dome" (a common belief back then) but not a globe/sphere.

Blood in life is not a new concept. It's been around for many years. Ever heard of animal sacrfices? They know there's life in the blood.

That's what I figure, there is sooo much you have misunderstood the foundation of the Bible and got a lot of it with wrong idea what it says. Now the word "to the end of the world", is based on what the whole phrase is saying, but most like this, "Go ye therefore....... To the end of the world" meaning till your life is over. (Matthew chpt 28) and also Psalms 19:4 says " ........their words to the end of the world. Inthem hath he set a tabernacle for the sun." Here's the translation from CEV ""Yet their message reaches all the earth, and travels around the world. In the heavens a tent is set up for the sun." This word end of the earth or world does not mean flat. And also means end of your lifetime on earth, its based on what particular phrase is saying.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

The man's philosophies, theories are like Dandelions as Depravity. Christians are like TULIP---The Unending Loving Immanuel (Jesus) Paid. Smile

 

[hottiedeafboi]

About the slaves law in Book of Exodus. You again, misunderstood what this is about. God set the law against murder and other violent crimes. That's talking about a fight. And also, master is responsible for his role, if he mistreat the master, he will be punished likewise. Now about daughter and wife, you have to look the whole phrase, you notice it said that if he wants to keep his wife and daughter, he can, but remain slave under the master, (smite) is part like pierced in his earlobe like notarized. And Deuteronomy 15;12-18 summarize similar as exodus, its not a mistreatment as you think it is.

 

[netrox]

About the slaves law in Book of Exodus. You again, misunderstood what this is about... its not a mistreatment as you think it is.

You clearly fail to grasp my point. Slavery itself is a crime against humanity and the fact that God did nothing to forbid slavery (like saying, "Thou shall not own a slave for slavery is a sin") is appalling. It should have been included in the Ten Commandments but God clearly supported it by telling them on how to own slaves. Slaves were treated as a property.

Slavery has been around for many millenniums but that does NOT make it ok at all! It's degrading. It devalues a human personhood greatly.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

You clearly fail to grasp my point. Slavery itself is a crime against humanity and the fact that God did nothing to forbid slavery (like saying, "Thou shall not own a slave for slavery is a sin") is appalling. It should have been included in the Ten Commandments but God clearly supported it by telling them on how to own slaves. Slaves were treated as a property.

Slavery has been around for many millenniums but that does NOT make it ok at all! It's degrading. It devalues a human personhood greatly.

Again, this isn't the same way how they took african to sell. This is different ways. Like what they did to african is very inhumane, but what's in Moses time isn't the same, plus when he go free, did you read what it says? If the slave says I love you, I don't want to leave (in Book of Deut.) He can stay, then pierced his earlobe as a notarizr that will become his. But if the slave free, the master will give many of his(master's) possessions. Like I said, did you know slave also means servants? This is what this talking about. If someone hurt the slave will be punishes.

 

[netrox]

That's what I figure, there is sooo much you have misunderstood the foundation of the Bible and got a lot of it with wrong idea what it says. Now the word "to the end of the world", is based on what the whole phrase is saying... This word end of the earth or world does not mean flat. And also means end of your lifetime on earth, its based on what particular phrase is saying.

Again, a typical Christian apologetic's attempt to explain... nice try.

You ignored what the ancient Hebrews believed. They had the wrong view that the earth was flat and that the sky was a dome. It was also a common belief in Babylon. They believed that the whole earth was flat and the sky was a vault.

Science gives a fact that the earth was once violent and unsuitable (not void) and that the sun began before the earth began, and that over billions of years, evolution occurred. Clearly, that contradicts what the Creation said.

However, if you uphold the Flat Earth concept, the Creation makes perfect sense. The earth was created FIRST. You HAD to create a foundation first! Then God created light to see the earth and God was happy with what he saw. Note that light does not mean sun or moon since they were not created UNTIL the fourth day.

On second day, he created spaces between the waters and he called the space "sky" or "heaven." That clearly fits with the model of the flat earth belief. It's a flat earth with a vault.

On third day, God created plants. The hebrews clearly knew that plants needed light. On fourth day, God said, "There gotta be days and nights so I am going to create the sun and the moon." He did. Oddly, he put it IN the vault, not above the vault.

Later verses clearly indicates the belief that the earth does not move at all (when in fact, the earth revolves all the time)

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

If you know the facts, the sun does NOT revolve around the earth. The earth does move constantly.

 

[netrox]

Again, this isn't the same way how they took african to sell. This is different ways. Like what they did to african is very inhumane, but what's in Moses time isn't the same, plus when he go free, did you read what it says? If the slave says I love you, I don't want to leave (in Book of Deut.) He can stay, then pierced his earlobe as a notarizr that will become his. But if the slave free, the master will give many of his(master's) possessions. Like I said, did you know slave also means servants? This is what this talking about. If someone hurt the slave will be punishes.

I cannot believe you are trying so hard to rationalize it. Slave does not equal servants. Slaves were clearly BOUGHT as described in the Old Testament. Servants cannot be bought.

Did you really read this verse: "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." Ex.21:20-21

Can you understand that?

Is slavery ok? Yes or no? You're trying to duck the REAL issue - the inherent evil nature of slavery. Shouldn't you be ashamed that your God did nothing to stop that evil? In fact, your God allowed beating to happen without the owner to be punished!

 

[XBGMER]

I believe that you people never understand what bible talk about itself. Why you guys talk about slavery? You no need to worry about slavery but for me, my people should worry about slavery and even remember what you done to my people what you put black slaves through suffering, beating on and on. Now I understood about slavery, so you people will be soon fall in hand of enemies who are anti-whites/ christians, put you into slavery where it suffering, beating on and on when end is come on you. because you are tail, no longer head you using. You are third part of Dragon's TAIL!

I aint worry about what you talk about slavery. let you blah about slavery..

by the way, white never owned african slaves in africa before greece, roman and jesus born. you better check egypt somewhere online or in libaray which have history will tell you all pharaohs had feature negroes of noses and thick lips, they werent damn pure white folks..

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Again, a typical Christian apologetic's attempt to explain... nice try.

You ignored what the ancient Hebrews believed. They had the wrong view that the earth was flat and that the sky was a dome. It was also a common belief in Babylon. They believed that the whole earth was flat and the sky was a vault.

Science gives a fact that the earth was once violent and unsuitable (not void) and that the sun began before the earth began, and that over billions of years, evolution occurred. Clearly, that contradicts what the Creation said.

However, if you uphold the Flat Earth concept, the Creation makes perfect sense. The earth was created FIRST. You HAD to create a foundation first! Then God created light to see the earth and God was happy with what he saw. Note that light does not mean sun or moon since they were not created UNTIL the fourth day.

On second day, he created spaces between the waters and he called the space "sky" or "heaven." That clearly fits with the model of the flat earth belief. It's a flat earth with a vault.

On third day, God created plants. The hebrews clearly knew that plants needed light. On fourth day, God said, "There gotta be days and nights so I am going to create the sun and the moon." He did. Oddly, he put it IN the vault, not above the vault.

Later verses clearly indicates the belief that the earth does not move at all (when in fact, the earth revolves all the time)

1 Chronicles 16:30:

 

[Cloggy]

However, if you uphold the Flat Earth concept, the Creation makes perfect sense. The earth was created FIRST. You HAD to create a foundation first! Then God created light to see the earth and God was happy with what he saw. Note that light does not mean sun or moon since they were not created UNTIL the fourth day.

On second day, he created spaces between the waters and he called the space "sky" or "heaven." That clearly fits with the model of the flat earth belief. It's a flat earth with a vault.

On third day, God created plants. The hebrews clearly knew that plants needed light. On fourth day, God said, "There gotta be days and nights so I am going to create the sun and the moon." He did. Oddly, he put it IN the vault, not above the vault.

Later verses clearly indicates the belief that the earth does not move at all (when in fact, the earth revolves all the time)

1 Chronicles 16:30:

You realise that anytime something cannot be explained, a god is invented to make sense out of it!
Thunder..., lightning.... Menkind etc... it was all explained with gods.

People need an explanation.... when all logic fails, gods were created. This continues even in these times. No-one can imagine what's beyond the universe.... so GOD!!

HItchhikers Guide to the galexy gave the only answer needed:

42​

 

[netrox]

by the way, white never owned african slaves in africa before greece, roman and jesus born. you better check egypt somewhere online or in libaray which have history will tell you all pharaohs had feature negroes of noses and thick lips, they werent damn pure white folks..

I never said that slavery was restricted to blacks, did I? Slavery is slavery, no matter what the race or ethnic a person is.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

I cannot believe you are trying so hard to rationalize it. Slave does not equal servants. Slaves were clearly BOUGHT as described in the Old Testament. Servants cannot be bought.

Did you really read this verse: "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." Ex.21:20-21

Can you understand that?

Is slavery ok? Yes or no? You're trying to duck the REAL issue - the inherent evil nature of slavery. Shouldn't you be ashamed that your God did nothing to stop that evil? In fact, your God allowed beating to happen without the owner to be punished!

Ok, I know KJV make you think that's what it said, but this is better translation of CEV similar meaning of KJV Ex.21:20-22 " Death is the punishment for beating to death of your slaves. However, if the slave lives a few days after the beating, you are not to be punished. After all, you have ALREADY LOST THE SERVICES OF THAT SLAVE who WAS your property.(what God meant is, if he killed his slave will be death sentence, but if he lives, but hurt him, he will lose it) Suppose a pregnant woman suffers a miscarriage as the result of an INJURY CAUSED BY SOMEONE WHO IS FIGHTING. If she isn't badly hurt, the one who injured her MUST PAY WHATEVER FINE HER HUSBAND DEMANDS AND THE JUDGE APPROVE. Continue to 23 " but if she is seriously injured, payment will be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, cut for cut, and bruise for bruise." Now you get it, that is not inhumane. What's inhumane is just like sold black by beating them and stuff, this is not what God told Moses, God never intend to allow by beating, or hurting the innoncent. And Netrox, your attitude shows that you doing for I win you lose conversation. I'm not interesting on that plus how you point out and I look it up and that's how I try to show you the meaning of this passage. But you just constantly twisting try to appear how christians are and that's why I was wondering who taught you that idea the passage you gave me and I know science and secular world using it to pervert your thoughts to appear to "make sense", and that's the dangerous things to do, and if its church, then that's not the church I have been taught and not only that, even my own study to be cautious and let the Holy Spirit reveal to me. Understand this, I will never be complete knowledge of everything and at the same time cautious who teaches and must let My Spirit convict me or cautious me. Bec that's what I have live my life of. Anything teached by slapping God as the same meaning by saying there is no God or saying God is wrong.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

You realise that anytime something cannot be explained, a god is invented to make sense out of it!
Thunder..., lightning.... Menkind etc... it was all explained with gods.

People need an explanation.... when all logic fails, gods were created. This continues even in these times. No-one can imagine what's beyond the universe.... so GOD!!

HItchhikers Guide to the galexy gave the only answer needed:

42​

I don't know how some of you do that, bec that's not my saying. I never quote that