Out of context verses

[netrox]

sculleywr argued: "There are over forty prophecies concerning the coming Messiah, and Jesus fulfilled every one. Some say this is just coincidence. But, the odds of just one person fulfilling even five of these prophesies is less than one chance in one hundred million billion--a number millions of times greater than the number of all people who have ever lived on earth."

It's pure non-sense. The prophecies that they claim predicted Jesus are NOT true - those prophecies have nothing to do with the coming of Jesus Christ. Christians just pick the verses from the OT and say, "That's the prophecy of Jesus!" I can select a verse from the OT and say, "That predicts the coming of George Bush!"

sculleywr argued: "Ok, tell me, how can a man born in Egypt claim to be Messiah when the prophets say in Micah 5:2... But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

It says nothing about Jesus. That verse was taken out of context to justify Christians belief that it predicted Jesus as the Messiah. If you simply read the whole context, you'll find it has nothing to do with Jesus:

1 Now you are walled about with a wall; siege is laid against us; with a rod they strike upon the cheek the ruler of Israel. 2 But you, O Bethlehem Eph'rathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days. 3 Therefore he shall give them up until the time when she who is in travail has brought forth; then the rest of his brethren shall return to the people of Israel. 4 And he shall stand and feed his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God. And they shall dwell secure, for now he shall be great to the ends of the earth. 5 And this shall be peace, when the Assyrian comes into our land and treads upon our soil, that we will raise against him seven shepherds and eight princes of men; 6 they shall rule the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod with the drawn sword; and they shall deliver us from the Assyrian when he comes into our land and treads within our border.

Jesus did nothing of that.

So, that removes one of the so called "40 prophecies".

What bout the prophecy cited in the New Testament that claim fulfilled the prophecy of Jesus Christ: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

That prophecy is from Isiah 7. If you just read the whole context, it becomes very clear that it has nothing to do with Jesus:

Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 "Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights."

12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test."

13 Then Isaiah said, "Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. 16 But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah-he will bring the king of Assyria."

It was talking about giving birth to a boy named Immanuel (Christians rationalize everything saying Immanuel means god is with you and jesus is god.. blah blah blah) and it was supposed to happen in THAT lifetime, not centuries later!

So, remove one of the prohecies from the 40 to 38.

But that's not it. ALL the prophecies that Christians claimed foretold of Jesus were NOT about Jesus Christ at all.

The prophecy claim simply fails.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I'm Catholic, and we don't believe the Bible is even the one source of truth. We're still Christian, but we understand that the Bible isn't a work of 100% fact.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Like I said, you know the bible, but not percieved it. I know what whole chapter of Micah 5 and I know what Isaiah is saying and still you couldn't get a glimpse of it. Immanuel does mean God with us. Jesus Christ means The One who saves. Now, Jesus birth as written as a present tense ( that is while Jesus on Earth). But His ruling is not yet its a still in the future. Its been explained on other thread. "Knowinf Biblw, but Not Percieved it". While He was on earth already fullfilled it, but as for reigning hasn't yet. Bec many thought its about political power, but not. Not just sculley, so does teresh and her timidating and offensive comment toward sculley, not sculley. That's the difference. Both have the right to point out, but name calling is uncalling for.

 

[netrox]

Percieve it? Don't you realize that your perception of the Bible is totally distorted?

If the Bible was read as a literay book, you would come to the SAME conclusions as I have come. The only problem is that you only want to believe what your Christian doctrine tells you.

 

[Cloggy]

"Jesus" is based on a 3000+ year old myth... And looking at the success, a good one.

What is striking is that the way the myth describes the person and how he thought, has nothing to do with how "christians" behave.
The myth would be saddened to see his name being used as it is.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Percieve it? Don't you realize that your perception of the Bible is totally distorted?

If the Bible was read as a literay book, you would come to the SAME conclusions as I have come. The only problem is that you only want to believe what your Christian doctrine tells you.

That's way off based and it is out of your cruel attitude. And horrible accusation. I just don't go to church and listen and end it. I get involve and study daily. Not only that, I ask the Lord to show me and lead me and etc. And you know what? I have seen His work in me. Bec really, you have a lack of understanding of the Word big time how you quote the verse and I read it myself and my goodness, you really miss the point. I have seen you doing that and you quote Micah and Isaiah, amd still get the idea what it meant and talked about. You gotta chill and no, don't blame them and stop saying they this they that. Look at yourself. There is no reason to insult, and no its not what they did, its just yourself with bitterness and anger which will not get you anywhere

 

[thewinterknight]

What about that verse in Genesis

"The passage in Genesis 1:27 — "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (before describing a mate being made of Adam's rib and being called Eve in Genesis 2:22) is sometimes believed to be an indication that Adam had a wife before Eve."

I have seen ALOT I mean a lot of people take this to heart and they then start to preach on Liltih's status as Adam's first wife which I personally don't care about but some of you may the link to Liltih and her influence on history can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

Just curious if this actually apply to the Out of context verse tho no need to flame me for this.

Weird, the link don't work so just go to Wikipedia and search for Lilith.

 

[deafdyke]

What is striking is that the way the myth describes the person and how he thought, has nothing to do with how "christians" behave.
The myth would be saddened to see his name being used as it is.

My favorite quote EVER is "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more then going to the garage makes you a car"

 

[hottiedeafboi]

My favorite quote EVER is "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more then going to the garage makes you a car"

Exactly and agree with you 100 percent. I've been saying that somewhere on other post. Even preachers pointing out the problem with christians. And sadly toooo many are benchwarmers and just listen but not apply it and etc.

 

[netrox]

Not only that, I ask the Lord to show me and lead me and etc. And you know what? I have seen His work in me.

You ASKED the Lord? What makes you think the Lord is showing you His work? Muslims and Mormons say the same about their Lord and that does not make them right either. Many people believed in gods and goddesses and they say their lords spoke to them yet you'd dismiss them. Why is that it's ok to dismiss those people but it's not ok with Christians? Simply, because Christians think they're right despite concrete evidence to the contrary.

You definitely need to get out of the box and look at the whole world, not me. I was a practicing Christian and I clearly know what I am talking about. I was STUPID to not look beyond what I was taught. I was neurotic and I was obsessed with the Christian belief. I praised Jesus. I went to churches. I believed the Bible was the answer to all problems.

But as I get older and more educated, I realized the Bible is not geniune. I realized my errors and it took a while to get myself "de-programmed" from the Christian mentality.

So, I figured, why not create this thread so people can learn that the Bible isn't as what Christians have been saying and that they can be assured that they're ok to question or reject the Bible.

 

[sculleywr]

I'm Catholic, and we don't believe the Bible is even the one source of truth. We're still Christian, but we understand that the Bible isn't a work of 100% fact.

I would have to disagree there. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Tell me where that came from.

 

[sculleywr]

You ASKED the Lord? What makes you think the Lord is showing you His work? Muslims and Mormons say the same about their Lord and that does not make them right either. Many people believed in gods and goddesses and they say their lords spoke to them yet you'd dismiss them. Why is that it's ok to dismiss those people but it's not ok with Christians? Simply, because Christians think they're right despite concrete evidence to the contrary.

You definitely need to get out of the box and look at the whole world, not me. I was a practicing Christian and I clearly know what I am talking about. I was STUPID to not look beyond what I was taught. I was neurotic and I was obsessed with the Christian belief. I praised Jesus. I went to churches. I believed the Bible was the answer to all problems.

But as I get older and more educated, I realized the Bible is not geniune. I realized my errors and it took a while to get myself "de-programmed" from the Christian mentality.

So, I figured, why not create this thread so people can learn that the Bible isn't as what Christians have been saying and that they can be assured that they're ok to question or reject the Bible.

You can change what you like. God is unchanging. He does not change by human wims. You can change if you like, but I'll stick with the old stuff, cause it works every time.

 

[sculleywr]

Percieve it? Don't you realize that your perception of the Bible is totally distorted?

If the Bible was read as a literay book, you would come to the SAME conclusions as I have come. The only problem is that you only want to believe what your Christian doctrine tells you.

And if you read the Bible by its own claims, you would perceive it a different way. Read my TImothy verse.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

You can change what you like. God is unchanging. He does not change by human wims. You can change if you like, but I'll stick with the old stuff, cause it works every time.

Exactly and even about other religion the same, but only difference is they don't have the breath of God in them and sense the moving power, bec even islamic world in Babylon world, bec Babylonian worship their god. At the same time got the wrong perspective about christians reaction toward islams.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

You ASKED the Lord? What makes you think the Lord is showing you His work? Muslims and Mormons say the same about their Lord and that does not make them right either. Many people believed in gods and goddesses and they say their lords spoke to them yet you'd dismiss them. Why is that it's ok to dismiss those people but it's not ok with Christians? Simply, because Christians think they're right despite concrete evidence to the contrary.

You definitely need to get out of the box and look at the whole world, not me. I was a practicing Christian and I clearly know what I am talking about. I was STUPID to not look beyond what I was taught. I was neurotic and I was obsessed with the Christian belief. I praised Jesus. I went to churches. I believed the Bible was the answer to all problems.

But as I get older and more educated, I realized the Bible is not geniune. I realized my errors and it took a while to get myself "de-programmed" from the Christian mentality.

So, I figured, why not create this thread so people can learn that the Bible isn't as what Christians have been saying and that they can be assured that they're ok to question or reject the Bible.

Mmmm, I don't know your background and the way of your percieving and don't tell me I don't go out in the world which I do and face everyday. Mentality. Mmmmm. No wonder. Practice to be christians. No wonder. That's explained why you lacking. That's I don't know if you just grew up in church, but no Christ in you. Study to memorize bible verses to develop mentally. All fo that does not mean you are a christian. Christian does not mean you know the Bible, also, not mean you go to church. If you have Christ, then meaning you control Holy Spirit not Holy Spirit control you. Also, expect a instant prater answers and expect there will be no problem, then you got that wrong. If no challenge in life and no problem in life, then that wil not make you grow. There are some lacking you have and like I said, I have no idea how deep your church teaches and etc. I been to church doesn't teach in depth. Not all christians has the same level.

 

[netrox]

You can change what you like. God is unchanging. He does not change by human wims. You can change if you like, but I'll stick with the old stuff, cause it works every time.

The old stuff... like ignorance, slavery, cruel punishments, women as properties... yeah, I guess they work!

You are the one that can change, not God.

 

[sculleywr]

The old stuff... like ignorance, slavery, cruel punishments, women as properties... yeah, I guess they work!

You are the one that can change, not God.

No, the old stuff in the Bible alone. Sola scriptura. The BIble doesn't take a stand on either side of servitude. Matter of fact, Christians are to be as servants. Women are not considered property in the BIble. And if ignorance is of science, you might want to read the parts that the Bible was right on all along. "The circle of the earth," and "The life is in the blood," Come to mind. Those disband the scientific beliefs of the time, such as the flat earth theory and the theory of bleeding.

Edit: The Bible does have a small stand on servitude. If you were in debt with someone, you could become their servant to pay off your debt. Masters were required to treat their servant(s) with respect. If the servant wished to be a permanent servant, he could go through rituals in Leviticus to become "A Doulos," Or "A bondservant." However, the servitude in the Bible is a lot different than the slavery you are thinking of. In fact, it is still happening throughout the United States. You go to work and you eat, you can put the food against your paycheck. You still get the food, but you have to work long enough to pay for the food you get, and hopefully, get extra in return.

 

[Teresh]

The BIble doesn't take a stand on either side of servitude... If you were in debt with someone, you could become their servant to pay off your debt.

One could make an argument that the Israelites were ever-so-slightly forward thinking on the issue of slavery and debt... The institution of the Jubilee year every 50th year meant that all slaves were emancipated and all debts cancelled every 50 years.

Obviously, slavery is evil and should have been abolished to begin with, but perhaps the Israelites were slightly better than their neighbors where if you were a slave, there was no way to gain freedom unless your master whimed it (which almost never happened).

Perhaps the regular pattern of emancipation would indicate that the Bible actually condemns slavery?

 

[Rose Immortal]

The way I see the parts of the Bible that deal with the reality of slavery, it seems that it tries to provide ways to take the worst of the sting off of it--but then verses that outline major concepts like mercy and equality (Galatians states it pretty bluntly) sow the seeds for reform. As society matured, most people really began to realize the implications of those concepts and that they had to stop the oppression of others.

 

[sculleywr]

One could make an argument that the Israelites were ever-so-slightly forward thinking on the issue of slavery and debt... The institution of the Jubilee year every 50th year meant that all slaves were emancipated and all debts cancelled every 50 years.

Obviously, slavery is evil and should have been abolished to begin with, but perhaps the Israelites were slightly better than their neighbors where if you were a slave, there was no way to gain freedom unless your master whimed it (which almost never happened).

Perhaps the regular pattern of emancipation would indicate that the Bible actually condemns slavery?

And there was a way to become a servant for life.

What happened with slavery is when people misused the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, expanding them to include races. It was a twisting of the Bible.