Other people perspective AGAINST C.I. for the Deaf children

[shel90]

I realized that Shel, there are hearing kids that are failing in school too for vary of reasons, not only deaf kids. there's pros and cons in every school educational. Every person has their own opinion of how to 'fix' education, All one can do is raise their children the best they can, give them the right "tools" and hope that they use them.




How is this post related to "children struggle in an educational environment" ?


I'm sorry to see that my post upset you, I won't say no more.

That question was directed to Rick48 not u. None of your posts upsetted me.

 

[shel90]

You are correct, I have no against oralism people. It is so frustrated with them when they are narrowmind. I try so hard to educational them how ASL is important language for the Deaf Community. Deaf people will reject oralism people because they can't understand their speak or limit sign language like straight English. It makes me fell alseep.

Taught little Deaf children to learn how to speak. Where they learn in their education in ASL, their English structure will pick up really quickly by visual in hands sign language than read the lip. Read the lip tends to cause them misunderstanding.

Speak and sign language same time, it cause very confuse for the little children. I admitted that I use my voice when I sign. My son said, my voice is too loud and inappropriate words. So, I decide to turn off my voice, it makes my son feel more comfortable to visual in my ASL and facial impression.

That I agree with. The concepts are much more clearer for the children when using one language at a time.

 

[shel90]

Actually, Cheri, what I said was that, in my experience, I had not seen the Bi-Bi approach fail a student. That is very different from your quote bolded above. I have however, seen students that have been failed by the system of oralism and by the system of TC. I have seen students that have not been able to develop skills that are in line with their capabilities. In other words, I have seen students who were far brighter than their literacy skills demonstrated under the TC and oral systems.

As long as we continue to keep the educational system fractionalized, there will be gaps in the services that deaf children receive. Deaf children will continue to be educated at a level that is far below their intellectual capabilites. We need to find a system that provides more for these children so they have the opportunity to take what they need and use it to develop their natural intelligence. IMO, Bi-Bi is that system.

Isnt that what we want for Deaf children..to be educated using their most potential? I am lost by this argument...is it cuz of speech? Maybe in my mind, I see having knowledge, literacy skills, critical thinking skills, abstract thoughts, and problem solving skills coming first and then speech as a means for communicating with hearing people. Eventually deaf people who have speech skills will definitely use those skills when using spoken language. In the classroom, it is about language arts, math, and all those content areas. The speech classes are about speech development.

 

[shel90]

All either one of us is doing is advocating for a system that allows deaf children to develop their intellectual potential to the highest degree. I fail to see what is so wrong in expecting that deaf children receive the best educational services available that allows them to learn and use knowledge to the best of their abilities.[/QUOTE]

I know..I m lost on this one.

 

[Angel]

That I agree with. The concepts are much more clearer for the children when using one language at a time.

Please do not speak for all deaf children, I wasn't confusing using oral and ASL at the same time, and my children are hearing, I use both my voice and sign.

 

[Angel]

That question was directed to Rick48 not u.

And your point is? This still does not answer my question.

 

[shel90]

originally posted by shel90



shel90- Does your vision of a better deaf education system include all tools, such as cueing English via Cued Speech for language and literacy?

I m leaning more towards to Visual Phonics...wait and see.

I do not rule out CS. I just see it as a good teaching tool for some children.

U say that there is a 100% guarantee with CS but my coworkers who have had personal experience said that it benefits some children not all. I guess I will have to personally experience it myself before I make an opinion. However, I am learning more and more about Visual Phonics and maybe using that as a teaching tool.

With my class using ASL to teach English is working out just fine. Maybe CS for other different kinds of learners in the future.

As long as both languages are kept separate and pure for the children, I am willing to try new things. If it comes to mixing both, I wont cuz of my experience with it.

 

[shel90]

Please do not speak for all deaf children, I wasn't confusing using oral and ASL at the same time, and my children are hearing, I use both my voice and sign.

Did I say all deaf children? Ever think about maybe I was talking about my students?

 

[shel90]

And your point is? This still does not answer my question.

Sure, I would be happy to answer your question. I was just curious if Rick ever interacted with parents of nonimplanted children cuz he kept talking about his experience with implanted children.

As for Deaf parents of Deaf kids, when I asked him about that I had forgotten that he shared his experience on how the Deaf community called him child abusers. I remembered that later so Rick doesnt have to answer that one since he already gave his reason.

 

[shel90]

Please do not speak for all deaf children, I wasn't confusing using oral and ASL at the same time, and my children are hearing, I use both my voice and sign.

Deaf children arent hearing. Hearing children still can use their ears to hear you speak. My daughter doesnt watch the signs if I use my voice with signing cuz she is relying on her natural sense for communication. Deaf children dont have that so for me, it makes sense that they would rely on the visual language.

I thought u signed SEE not ASL? Pls correct me if I am wrong.

I couldnt use both at the same time, cuz I wouldnt be signing in ASL nor speaking good English.

 

[Angel]

Deaf children arent hearing. Hearing children still can use their ears to hear you speak. My daughter doesnt watch the signs if I use my voice with signing cuz she is relying on her natural sense for communication. Deaf children dont have that so for me, it makes sense that they would rely on the visual language.

I thought u signed SEE not ASL? Pls correct me if I am wrong.

I couldnt use both at the same time, cuz I wouldnt be signing in ASL nor speaking good English.

Just because I use SEE doesn't mean I don't know ASL. I'm deaf also so I rely on both oral and sign.

Like I said earlier, everyone is different.

 

[Angel]

Sure, I would be happy to answer your question. I was just curious if Rick ever interacted with parents of nonimplanted children cuz he kept talking about his experience with implanted children.

As for Deaf parents of Deaf kids, when I asked him about that I had forgotten that he shared his experience on how the Deaf community called him child abusers. I remembered that later so Rick doesnt have to answer that one since he already gave his reason.

He's not a child abuse, he choose to raise his children the way he sees fit. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else, but I'm sick of people putting others down. it's getting old and annoying.

 

[shel90]

He's not a child abuse, he choose to raise his children the way he sees fit. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else, but I'm sick of people putting others down. it's getting old and annoying.

I know that...not my words, his words from his first experience with the Deaf community 20 years ago. I am just quoting him and I dont blame him for it.

 

[shel90]

Just because I use SEE doesn't mean I don't know ASL. I'm deaf also so I rely on both oral and sign.

Like I said earlier, everyone is different.

Ok, that was why I asked. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

I know that everyone is different and I accept that.

Just want all deaf children to recieve equal access to education just like hearing kids are in the classroom. Outside of the classroom, that is all up to them and their families.

 

[Angel]

Just want all deaf children to recieve equal access to education just like hearing kids are in the classroom. Outside of the classroom, that is all up to them and their families.

I have absolutely no problem with that either.

 

[shel90]

I have absolutely no problem with that either.

If down the road, a new educational methodolgy was designed better than the BiBi and meets all deaf children's needs regardless of the degree of their hearing loss, I would take it. It is all about room for improvement.

When I was studying to be a teacher, I was taught "The moment a teacher stops learning, it is when the teacher is no longer effective." We, teachers, are always striving to learn more about new ideas and methodologies. I know that I am still learning and my students do teach me daily about how I can improve myself as a teacher. I just wont settle for less.

If the day comes that a device is invented that make all deaf kids 100% hearing, then of course, I will accept that the oral-only route would be the way to go. As long as no student is constantly missing out info and put at risk for language delays.

 

[Angel]

If down the road, a new educational methodolgy was designed better than the BiBi and meets all deaf children's needs regardless of the degree of their hearing loss, I would take it. It is all about room for improvement.

When I was studying to be a teacher, I was taught "The moment a teacher stops learning, it is when the teacher is no longer effective." We, teachers, are always striving to learn more about new ideas and methodologies. I know that I am still learning and my students do teach me daily about how I can improve myself as a teacher. I just wont settle for less.

If the day comes that a device is invented that make all deaf kids 100% hearing, then of course, I will accept that the oral-only route would be the way to go. As long as no student is constantly missing out info and put at risk for language delays.

I'm very glad you said that Shel90, you just put a nice smile on my face here. Thank you! and I agree.

 

[jillio]

If down the road, a new educational methodolgy was designed better than the BiBi and meets all deaf children's needs regardless of the degree of their hearing loss, I would take it. It is all about room for improvement.

When I was studying to be a teacher, I was taught "The moment a teacher stops learning, it is when the teacher is no longer effective." We, teachers, are always striving to learn more about new ideas and methodologies. I know that I am still learning and my students do teach me daily about how I can improve myself as a teacher. I just wont settle for less.

If the day comes that a device is invented that make all deaf kids 100% hearing, then of course, I will accept that the oral-only route would be the way to go. As long as no student is constantly missing out info and put at risk for language delays.

 

[Tousi]

I think people are getting their feelings hurt or are becoming defensive for the wrong reasons. They should try to see that educators who care are trying to find the best way to educate deaf children so that the success rate will be higher than it was in the past. In the meantime, we respect the adults who have chosen the path that they are on now which is an entirely different thing as to what should be discussed here and that is the best methodology be utilized for deaf children today.

 

[shel90]

I'm very glad you said that Shel90, you just put a nice smile on my face here. Thank you! and I agree.

Thanks. Just need to clarify on where we all stand. It seems like the end result, we all want the educational system to meet all deaf children's need so they can have the same rights as heairng children.

I had practically no right in the educational system. I was just thrown in so it was either I swam or sank. I barely kept my head above the water.

On my space, I was telling on of my friends on my list who went to HS with me about my experiences. She said that she thought I could hear everything. I told her that I faked it big time and she said "Wow..I had no idea." Now, her eyes have been opened about deaf people and has been asking me a lot of questions about ASL, CIs and Deaf schools.