Never Follow A Security Guard Into The Back Of The Store

[yizuman]

Here's some advice for you, the regular customer who doesn't shoplift: never go into the back of a store with a security guard, store manager, rent-a-cop, etc. Never. Someone posted the following story in the Janesville, Wisconsin CraigsList over the weekend. Because the poster cooperated in good faith with the security personnel at her local Menards home store, she had to pay $150 to avoid having the police called on her.

So I will start off saying my husband and I have been shopping at Menards since they opened and because of our business we are there almost daily and sometime twice a day. This afternoon [November 7th, 2009] we came for the second time to get lumber and paint. I just bought my husband a surprise drywall gun last night from Menards so in exchange he thought it would be nice to look at a new drill for me.

I have had my eye on a light weight compact cordless so we started comparing them. He noticed a complete set of 2 drills, bat, chargers and so on but they were not on display, just in the box. Well I opened the box so I could see how light they are and they were perfect for me. I picked everything up that I removed from the box and stuffed it back in the box and set it in the cart. I tried to close the top of the box however because i removed everything it would not go back in place, So I left the box open.

We had several items in our cart and within a minute I found some drill bits to go with my new set so I tossed the small package in the cart. I turned my back to talk to my husband about more bits and some guy comes cruising around the corner grabs my cart and takes off walking very fast. "HEY you have my cart!" I yelled to the guy as he was already down the aisle. He let go of the cart said sorry and disappeared around the corner leaving my cart. I walked down, grabbed the cart, and came back to my husband. Very strange we both thought but we just continued shopping.

Over to building materials we went before checking out. We checked our items out (over $300.00) and the cashier never questioned the open box or looked inside.

We leave the store and a man walks up and asks for our receipt. My husband went to pull it out of his wallet and before he gets it out the guy reaches into the drill box and pulls out the small pack of drill bits. He looks at us and said you took these. We replied oh they must have been missed we will come back in and pay for them.

The guy who we now know as security asked us to come back inside. We went inside expecting to pay for the $5.99 drill bits and he tells us we have to fill out an incident paper.

They take our cart full of $300.00 worth of stuff and lead us into the security room. Inside the room we are sitting in silence while this guy is filling out paperwork and a lady that works as a CSM(?) is standing guard at the door like we are hard criminals ready to flee the country.

After several minutes of silence I ask if I am being charged for something. The security man said no I just need you to fill out this paperwork and give me your drivers license.

So I hand over my license and he said to me that he'd seen the drill bits on top of the open box then he'd seen us walk into the checkouts and not pay for them. I could not believe what I was hearing. I told him over and over this is a mistake I threw the bits in the cart and they must have landed on the box. The guard then said maybe they slipped further in the box when you moved your cart. He said well that sounds like you're just having bad luck. My husband asked if they'd seen me put the package in the box. He would not respond.

He then told me I have 2 choices. I can pay Menards $150.00 or they will call the police and charge me with theft and a $350.00 fine. We could not believe what was happening. CHARGE ME WITH THEFT! JUST BAD LUCK??? What is happening! Have they gone crazy!

I have thrown items in my cart many times and never thought twice about it. I understand if the bits were in my pocket or hidden under everything in the box but they were on top of a opened box that the cashier never even looked in the box. Honest mistake is what I call it not bad luck or theft.

So now I am in tears and faced with a choice I never thought I would make in my life. We run a professional business and I would never want to risk my reputation by being hauled out of Menards in front of everyone by the police. I was told to sign the paperwork and pay the $150.00 to avoid this from happening. So I signed and paid what they called a restitution. They refused to give me a copy of the paperwork I signed. Then they sent us on our way with tears in my eyes. I went quietly but I can't let this go.

Source: You're A Criminal: Never Follow A Security Guard Into The Back Of The Store

This triggered my memory because there was an exact same situation that happened at Meijer to an old man who went to find a pipe fitter for his car because his tail pipe rotted and partially falling off. He wasn't gonna buy a whole new one just yet since they're expensive. So he figured he could expand it's life by putting a pipe fitter on to make it last a bit longer until to the point he has to replace the whole thing.

Anyway, he walks in at Meijer and went to the Hardware department to find a pipe fitter. He couldn't find an employee to help him determine that the pipe fitter would be the right size for his car. So he decided to see if it is by himself if he went outside to make that determination.

He got stopped by two security guards and they escorted him to the security office. There, he explained his situation and then the guards whipped out a piece of paper and made him sign an agreement that he would pay Meijer $300 not to press charges against him. At that point, he didn't want to go to jail for something he felt he wasn't doing anything wrong other than wanting to determine if the fitter was right for his rusted tailpipe before buying it.

So he goes home, he calls a friend of his who is also a frequent shopper of Maijer. She told him to call the major newspaper and tell his story. So he did.

It became a front page news and as soon as the local TV news network hears about it, they called him to interview him on camera and he agreed.

Not long after that, Maijer made a statement for the press that they're dropping the charges against him and nothing further would become of it.

Editorials soon follow and they stated this has been a standard practice for stores like Meijer to profit off from "shoplifters" rather than allow state, cities and counties profiting of them by fining them. It's all about money.

I would not be surprised that victims are getting picked at random and would be falsely accused of shoplifting, since it's a profitable business. Basically because it would be hard to prove they are not doing it. (He said, they said) They would intimidate them into signing an agreement to avoid going to jail. If they dispute it later, they can show the agreement to the judge and more problems would follow.

So the advice above is sound, if for some reason a security guard tells you to follow him and you know you did nothing wrong. Don't. Take the stand and don't allow them to intimidate you and if you falsely get arrested and go to jail. Lawyer up fast and get that lawyer to get the security tapes ASAP so you can prove you did nothing wrong.

Make sure you know who if any, the witnesses are.

A lot of businesses out there can do alot of asinine things to people and I'm sure that the security guards gets bonuses for this sort of thing too.

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

simple - let them call the police. it is easily sort out with police. if you end up getting arrested, do not worry. It will be sort out and in the end - you will not be charged for such honest mistake.

what the store did..... it's nothing but a thuggery. They should be charged with extortion.

 

[sallylou]

If they detain you unlawfully without your consent, it may be false imprisonment (a tort). The law varies by state. Yet another reason not to consent.

 

[Jiro]

If they detain you unlawfully without your consent, it may be false imprisonment (a tort). The law varies by state. Yet another reason not to consent.

they technically have lawful reason to detain you but what they did like demanding you to pay the restitution or call police.... that's borderline extortion.

 

[yizuman]

simple - let them call the police. it is easily sort out with police. if you end up getting arrested, do not worry. It will be sort out and in the end - you will not be charged for such honest mistake.

what the store did..... it's nothing but a thuggery. They should be charged with extortion.

I agree and I'm thinking, what about the RICO Act? This should fall under that. But I bet their corporate lawyers is finding a loophole around that. Won't last long if this practice keeps up and Congress decides to update the RICO Act to make it stop.

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

I agree and I'm thinking, what about the RICO Act? This should fall under that. But I bet their corporate lawyers is finding a loophole around that. Won't last long if this practice keeps up and Congress decides to update the RICO Act to make it stop.

Yiz

lol what? RICO act on this petty matter???? you gotta be kidding me. RICO is usually reserved for organized crimes with history of racketeering, murders, extortion, bribery, etc. It's FBI matter. This petty case is not FBI matter.

 

[Eve]

A similar situation happened with my step-daughter. She was in Dillard's with a friend who actually did shop lift. My step-daughter didn't. We got a call from the mall cops. They pressed charges against the other girl who actually was shoplifting, but just made my step-daughter sign an agreement that she would never go into Dillard's again. Next thing we know, we get a letter from Dillard's attorney demanding a couple hundred dollars. We told them we would not be paying, as that is extortion. After that, the juvenile courts became involved and forced my step-daughter to take an anti-theft class and perform several hours of community service. I agree that she shouldn't have been with a friend who was stealing and I agree with the juvenile courts handling of the matter in a way that would make an impact on my step-daughter, but I do not agree that these stores should be allowed to continue extorting their customers like this.

 

[Eve]

they technically have lawful reason to detain you but what they did like demanding you to pay the restitution or call police.... that's borderline extortion.

Not borderline at all. It is just a form of extortion that they haven't been called out on yet.

 

[Jiro]

A similar situation happened with my step-daughter. She was in Dillard's with a friend who actually did shop lift. My step-daughter didn't. We got a call from the mall cops. They pressed charges against the other girl who actually was shoplifting, but just made my step-daughter sign an agreement that she would never go into Dillard's again. Next thing we know, we get a letter from Dillard's attorney demanding a couple hundred dollars. We told them we would not be paying, as that is extortion. After that, the juvenile courts became involved and forced my step-daughter to take an anti-theft class and perform several hours of community service. I agree that she shouldn't have been with a friend who was stealing and I agree with the juvenile courts handling of the matter in a way that would make an impact on my step-daughter, but I do not agree that these stores should be allowed to continue extorting their customers like this.

did you fight this with lawyer?

 

[Jiro]

Not borderline at all. It is just a form of extortion that they haven't been called out on yet.

true

 

[sallylou]

Hmmm... RICO would get rid of the consent issue. I'm thinking of what an individual person could realistically pursue. RICO is really complicated and expensive. You'd need a class action suit.

 

[Jiro]

Hmmm... RICO would get rid of the consent issue. I'm thinking of what an individual person could realistically pursue.

sell a sob story to news station. hire a lawyer. what would be GREAT is to have a employee who sympathized with his cause because he/she would be able to dig out information on previous customers in this similar situation.

Gather them and join together to sue them and/or tell stories to news. file a complaint with business CEO, State Attorney General, councilman, congressman, etc.. Elliot Spitzer would GLADLY take this case.

RICO is really complicated and expensive. You'd need a class action suit.

and it's for organized crimes. not this.

 

[Eve]

did you fight this with lawyer?

No, their extortion didn't work because we would rather deal with the juvenile court system than some pansy-ass lawyer trying to take our hard earned money. After all, it wasn't us who was in the presence of a shoplifter and my step-daughter deserved some form of consequence for her friend's actions and her being with her at the time. I believe we all learned a valuable lesson from the experience (all of us, except the extortionists).

 

[sallylou]

RICO has been applied in cases like these. The crime is the wiring of the extorted money. Usually, it's only one of the claims asserted, though. Kind of like throw in everything but the kitchen sink.

 

[Jiro]

No, their extortion didn't work because we would rather deal with the juvenile court system than some pansy-ass lawyer trying to take our hard earned money. After all, it wasn't us who was in the presence of a shoplifter and my step-daughter deserved some form of consequence for her friend's actions and her being with her at the time. I believe we all learned a valuable lesson from the experience (all of us, except the extortionists).

Eve - I misread one little line about juvenile court system. You said that you AGREE with its handling of this matter. I understand better now.

 

[yizuman]

sell a sob story to news station. hire a lawyer. what would be GREAT is to have a employee who sympathized with his cause because he/she would be able to dig out information on previous customers in this similar situation.

Gather them and join together to sue them and/or tell stories to news. file a complaint with business CEO, State Attorney General, councilman, congressman, etc.. Elliot Spitzer would GLADLY take this case.


and it's for organized crimes. not this.

Well, if Menards is doing this corporate wide in state to state, wouldn't that be considered "organized"? In theory, it's not considered a crime because this is something entirely new.

Yiz

 

[sallylou]

Here's an example:

Dentists sue insurers under RICO Act | Science Blog

Eve, it's a harsh way to learn a lesson. At least she will not have a record.

 

[sallylou]

Jiro, to detain you they must have reasonable cause. They'd better have some images on security cameras. I suspect that they often bluff.

 

[Jiro]

Well, if Menards is doing this corporate wide in state to state, isn't that considered a organized?

Yiz

we have had several cases like this including Microsoft - multiple states-wide corporate corruption. that is done without RICO. It is up to state attorney to act on it. federal level? not usually involved unless people higher up press on it like Senators.

Much easier to focus on your own state to deal with Menards's thuggery and if you win the case..... corporations tend to issue national memo to change their policy to avoid another lawsuit because that case can be used as legal precedent in other state. so spread the word!

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, to detain you they must have reasonable cause. They'd better have some images on security cameras. I suspect that they often bluff.

in OP's article - they had unpaid items in their bags. Because of that - they have reasonable cause to detain them. What they did wrong was making them pay $$$ restitution for mere $5 drill bits