Mexican Officials Point Rifles and threaten U.S. Border Agents

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pandaatv36 said:
snip snip
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1. How do you know the size of rocks being thrown at this Border Patrol agent?
2. Border Patrol agents are provided with safety equipments such as helmet, bullet vest, etc. Did he use it?
3. Is it even worth killing a boy over detaining an individual under Capture-And-Release policy?
4. If they ran back to border - he's done his job. No need to risk your life to detain one or kill one.
5. Is this worth ruining all these years of effort spent on building political & diplomatic & economic ties to fix the illegal crossing?
6. Killing a boy? great. just great. Our world status has been reduced and our danger level has gone up. This means they will kill an American boy in foreign nation and ignore us because we lost the credibility on preaching moral rights.

so what other options? Scare them away back to border. Stand your ground to monitor them.
 
A 14 yr. old with a rock using it as a deadly weapon....I love children and have 3 of my own.....But if a 14 yr. old was going to throw a heavy rock at me, I would do whatever I had to do to save my life, no matter what country I'm in.....

We have home invasions,among teenagers. Home owners have their guns/dogs ready, especially the elderly, we are no match for teenagers! Or rocks....which, more than likely, are used to hit someone IN THE HEAD, causing death......
 
rockin'robin said:
A 14 yr. old with a rock using it as a deadly weapon....I love children and have 3 of my own.....But if a 14 yr. old was going to throw a heavy rock at me, I would do whatever I had to do to save my life, no matter what country I'm in.....

We have home invasions,among teenagers. Home owners have their guns/dogs ready, especially the elderly, we are no match for teenagers! Or rocks....which, more than likely, are used to hit someone IN THE HEAD, causing death......
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Has any Border Patrol agent die from rock throwing?
 
Jiro said:
1. How do you know the size of rocks being thrown at this Border Patrol agent?
2. Is it even worth killing a boy over detaining an individual under Capture-And-Release policy?
3. If they ran back to border - he's done his job. No need to risk your life to detain one or kill one.
4. Is this worth ruining all these years of effort spent on building political & diplomatic & economic ties to fix the illegal crossing?
5. Killing a boy? great. just great. Our world status has been reduced and our danger level has gone up. This means they will kill an American boy in foreign nation and ignore us because we lost the credibility on preaching moral rights.
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Allright Jiro,

you are just saying... what if, what if, what if, its a rheotric questions you are bringing up

1. I have seen the size of the rocks at the location of the incident.. they are BIG enough to smash your skull in.

2. we dont stop and ask... "hey you boy with black t-shirt.. how old are you?" He choose that person as an immediate threat to him and eliminate him.

3. I think you don't understand the capture-release program... they capture the illegals, process them with photo, fingerprinted them and then release them back into mexico. It is not like the agent captured and said "you bad for coming here with no papers, go back to mexico and get right papers"

4. highly doubtful this will mess up the international relationship to the point where we are being threaten *ahem* like North Korea. Juarez and El Paso have very solid relationship because of economic/cultural relationship, i don't see any fall out from this little stupid incident.

5. I hate to say... this boy is a repeater offender, not a sweet innocent boy and I always make sure my kids don't DISrespect the law enforcement, stand alone throwing rocks at them. First of all, its in the heat of the moment, age, race, gender is out of the window when threat are present, and someone had to eliminate it. That boy should not be in the canal in the first place. look at the ROOT of the problem, he was not supposed to be there. look number 2 again.
 
not yet... and hope not!

Jiro said:
Did any Border Patrol agent die from rock throwing?
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two Border Patrol was attacked brutally about couple of years ago, and lucky that 3rd FBI agent was there to save them. Both barely survived.

Like i said... they always muscle themselves over the Border Patrols
 
Jiro said:
Has any Border Patrol agent die from rock throwing?
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Nobody is listening. I offered the common sense approach as well. The other side just wants these rock throwers killed. These border agents could have shot his hand, foot, leg, but he might have switched hands and threw lefty, killing the agent. Let them believe what thay want. Their opinions just fuel the flames for the gun control groups.
 
Jiro said:
Has any Border Patrol agent die from rock throwing?
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Wasn't it the 14 yr. old's intent to hit, maim or even kill the Border Agent? Was the agent supposed to stand idly by until the rock hit him?....The Border Agent had a rifle, suppose the 14 yr. old had a rifle too. Was the agent supposed to have waited until the 14 yr. old took the first shot?

Any 14 yr. old that picks up a heavy rock is meaning to do some damage. The agent was threatened with his life.
 
pandaatv36 said:
two Border Patrol was attacked brutally about couple of years ago, and lucky that 3rd FBI agent was there to save them. Both barely survived.

Like i said... they always muscle themselves over the Border Patrols
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awful. they have my sympathy.

btw - got a link to that article?
 
saywhatkid said:
Nobody is listening. I offered the common sense approach as well. The other side just wants these rock throwers killed. These border agents could have shot his hand, foot, leg, but he might have switched hands and threw lefty, killing the agent. Let them believe what thay want. Their opinions just fuel the flames for the gun control groups.
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I could probably throw a rock of the right heft for me to do some serious damage with greater accuracy than I could with a pistol or a rifle to hit an arm or a leg (not a sniper rifle) if we presume there was at least 50 yards between us.
 
rockin'robin said:
Wasn't it the 14 yr. old's intent to hit, maim or even kill the Border Agent?
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The boy's intent was to get him to release his friend, not maim or kill the agent.

rockin'robin said:
Was the agent supposed to stand idly by until the rock hit him?....The Border Agent had a rifle, suppose the 14 yr. old had a rifle too. Was the agent supposed to have waited until the 14 yr. old took the first shot?
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was the boy armed with gun? btw - the border agent was armed with 9mm pistol, not rifle.

rockin'robin said:
Any 14 yr. old that picks up a heavy rock is meaning to do some damage. The agent was threatened with his life.
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a heavy rock? serious damage? from that distance especially when you're being shot at several times?

I don't know about you but have you seen a 14 years old boy who is bold enough to stare into the cold steel barrel? I would shit in my pants.
 
pandaatv36 said:
Allright Jiro,

you are just saying... what if, what if, what if, its a rheotric questions you are bringing up
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What If? where?

pandaatv36 said:
1. I have seen the size of the rocks at the location of the incident.. they are BIG enough to smash your skull in.
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so you know exactly how big of the rock he was throwing? Do you have a copy of forensic photos? I have seen a photo of slain boy and it ain't pretty. I ain't linking it.

pandaatv36 said:
2. we dont stop and ask... "hey you boy with black t-shirt.. how old are you?" He choose that person as an immediate threat to him and eliminate him.
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I think any man with common sense especially a well-trained federal agent or LEO can identify an individual as a boy or adult.

pandaatv36 said:
3. I think you don't understand the capture-release program... they capture the illegals, process them with photo, fingerprinted them and then release them back into mexico. It is not like the agent captured and said "you bad for coming here with no papers, go back to mexico and get right papers"
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Oh yes I am quite aware of the procedure and policy. We have detention facility for that. After they get deported back - they are banned from USA for 5 years but they will try again anyway. Repeated offense will lead to imprisonment for up to a few years.

Like I said - is it worth killing a boy (which leads to political fallout and international condemnation) to detain an individual when he's eventually going to be released back?

BTW - I used the wrong term. It's not Catch-And-Release. I meant deportation. C-A-R is where they catch them and then ROR with promise that they will report to INS court on specified date (which they, of course, never show up). If I remember correctly - DHS disbanded the Catch-and-Release policy few years ago. Enough is enough. Get out.

pandaatv36 said:
4. highly doubtful this will mess up the international relationship to the point where we are being threaten *ahem* like North Korea. Juarez and El Paso have very solid relationship because of economic/cultural relationship, i don't see any fall out from this little stupid incident.
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You sure about that? Recall the horrible incident where the American soldier raped a Japanese girl in Japan? (it led to demanding a closure of American base in Japan) Recall the incident where the American mercenaries gunned down a group of civilians including mothers and children? That surely was an international mess. It certainly didn't win the heart and mind of Iraqis.

pandaatv36 said:
5. I hate to say... this boy is a repeater offender, not a sweet innocent boy and I always make sure my kids don't DISrespect the law enforcement, stand alone throwing rocks at them. First of all, its in the heat of the moment, age, race, gender is out of the window when threat are present, and someone had to eliminate it. That boy should not be in the canal in the first place. look at the ROOT of the problem, he was not supposed to be there. look number 2 again.
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Still doesn't warrant the use of deadly force.

btw - you missed my latest edit -

Border Patrol agents are provided with safety equipments such as helmet, bullet vest, etc. Did he use it?
Click to expand...

You do realize that a huge portion of illegals in here are "visa overstayers"? That means they were here legally but their status changed to illegal alien by failing to leave US upon expiration of their visa? What you think how there are tons of illegal Mexicans in northern USA like NJ-NY? Miguel and Pablo surely didn't come all the way to NY-NJ from Mexico on foot unless they befriended a hobo.
 
Jiro said:
I don't see anything in the article where a Border Patrol agent was killed/brutally injured by rock throwing. The article said they were beaten with rocks. Not quite the same as what I'm asking for.
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Jiro,

whatever tickles your peach... it shows the fact that incidents like this can turn deadly, regardless if its Border Patrol, sheriff, and even tourists. Now the headlines of rising violence... 16 people were killed in Juarez yesterday... 16 slain as Juárez violence continues - El Paso Times

now the mindset of all Border Patrols who patrols our borders knows the serious violence that happens just across the river, again they can exercise deadly force when they are threaten. you can keep on rambling armchair-psudeosociologist-rheortic comments.

Enjoy reading!
 
pandaatv36 said:
Jiro,

whatever tickles your peach... it shows the fact that incidents like this can turn deadly, regardless if its Border Patrol, sheriff, and even tourists. Now the headlines of rising violence... 16 people were killed in Juarez yesterday... 16 slain as Juárez violence continues - El Paso Times
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right but.... I specifically asked if any Border Patrol agent has been killed or seriously injured by rock throwing. What you showed me was beating with rock, pipe, etc.

pandaatv36 said:
now the mindset of all Border Patrols who patrols our borders knows the serious violence that happens just across the river, again they can exercise deadly force when they are threaten.
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yes they can use deadly force but the policy was very explicit about it. That's why it's called "Last Resort". The action of Border Patrol agent can affect the entire nation's political situation.

pandaatv36 said:
you can keep on rambling armchair-psudeosociologist-rheortic comments.
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pot calling the kettle black? :shock:

pandaatv36 said:
Enjoy reading!
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you too :wave:
 
saywhatkid said:
I thought you were done here...I am just enjoying the raging debate. Do not feed the troll. Let me.

I love Mexicans! :grouphug: I love that their border agents stood up to the US Border Agents :rl:trying to cross the border. :rifle:

I want to reward them with US citizenships!:ty: Let them come with their entire extended families, friends, heck the entire province they live in. Come one, come all! :wave:
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Shall we start a petition to award them citizenship?:giggle:
 
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