"Letting the Child Decide"

Good luck, Shel90 and let us know how it works out.
 
shel90 said:
Anyways, nope I didnt see any hearing aides or CIs so that to me is pretty serious cuz if he is completely deaf as the mother stated then he is missing out on language development. I am thinking now I am doing this for him so if the mother gets mad at me for coming to her home, at least I can know I tried.

Thanks. I just wanted to know if the parents had felt that way in her shoes..scared and confused and if they would appreciate it if deaf people seek them out or just leave them be until they work thru their emotions?
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He's completely deaf? :eek3: Definitely go and put those pamphlets in the mail box. It seems crazy to expect him to learn to talk before signing when he is completely deaf and is unaided.

The mother may be snarly to begin with but you are doing her and the little boy a favour in the long run by giving them information while he is still young enough for something to be done. Better that she takes a year to come around than wait until he gets referred to the school at age 5+
 
R2D2 said:
He's completely deaf? :eek3: Definitely go and put those pamphlets in the mail box. It seems crazy to expect him to learn to talk before signing when he is completely deaf and is unaided.

The mother may be snarly to begin with but you are doing her and the little boy a favour in the long run by giving them information while he is still young enough for something to be done. Better that she takes a year to come around than wait until he gets referred to the school at age 5+
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AMEN!
 
R2D2 said:
He's completely deaf? :eek3: Definitely go and put those pamphlets in the mail box. It seems crazy to expect him to learn to talk before signing when he is completely deaf and is unaided.

The mother may be snarly to begin with but you are doing her and the little boy a favour in the long run by giving them information while he is still young enough for something to be done. Better that she takes a year to come around than wait until he gets referred to the school at age 5+
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That's what the mother said..I am not sure if she really understood that deafness have different degree of hearing losses. She said completely so I am just quoting her.

As for hearing aids..I didnt ask her about them. I just didnt see them on him but doesnt mean he doesnt have them.

The mother kept talking to him while standing up and while his back was turned...so I got down to his view and started signing to him but the boy really look at me long enough. I was trying to show the mother a better and more appropriate way of communicating with the boy in his view but I dont think she really got it cuz she continued to talk to him from behind.

One thing is I dont understand is why whoever are the specialists that are supposely working with this boy are allowing this to happen? To me that is negligent on their part.
 
Maybe write her a letter about how you grew up oral deaf, and then discovered Sign? Say that you understand her concern about speech but also point out that Sign might give him an edge, and will definitly help for those times when speech isn't feasible. Too bad you don't have the anthology that my story is in.........you could copy my story and send it to her. A lot of times parents don't understand the downsides of oral only.
 
shel90 said:
One thing is I dont understand is why whoever are the specialists that are supposely working with this boy are allowing this to happen? To me that is negligent on their part.
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Agreed.
 
deafdyke said:
Maybe write her a letter about how you grew up oral deaf, and then discovered Sign? Say that you understand her concern about speech but also point out that Sign might give him an edge, and will definitly help for those times when speech isn't feasible. Too bad you don't have the anthology that my story is in.........you could copy my story and send it to her. A lot of times parents don't understand the downsides of oral only.
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I know and I dont blame them for that. I blame those specialists with that view to push oral only or AVT on the parents rather than telling them about the benefits of sign language too.

That's why I love the audi at my work..she goes out and meet the families of newly diagnosed deaf children and gives them all the info from A to Z about everything. That is when she is informed of them by family education.
 
If she does come around, I wonder if the audi that you mentioned will meet up with that mother.
 
deafskeptic said:
If she does come around, I wonder if the audi that you mentioned will meet up with that mother.
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That is what I am hoping..cuz she is deaf herself with bilateral CIs and she is a great model of having the best of both worlds and that should reassure parents that it is ok to learn sign language..:)
 
Thanks for asking the parents opinion. I couldn't believe how out of touch the mom seemed in your story, seems incomprehensible to me to let a kid grow up without language, hopefully he was late identified and she was just getting used to the idea. As for your responsibility to help the boy, I would drop by with the information, and see if she has any questions, but then you're right, it isn't your responsibility anymore. However, maybe she is still intimidated so if there is someone who is hearing at your school, they could meet her and offer more info?? That is a tough dilema!!! In the end, hopefully you don't see him at your school in a few years significantly delayed and in need of a lot of extra work, when it really isn't that hard to start when they are young.
 
R2D2 said:
I think my point was that having a CI doesn't preclude pursuing a billingual approach, such as Coles mum appears to be following with some success. I don't deny that overall, that many professionals have an oral approach. The problem that many parents face is getting a broad range of information.

However, the difference is that you appear to argue that this is one of the reasons why deaf children should not be implanted at all. Whereas I would personally encourage parents to be educated about all the different viewpoints and experiences when they are in the process of considering implanting their child and to learn to sign as well.

It's not an either/or situation.
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I have never stated that deaf children should not be implanted at all. I have stated that it was my decision not to implant my son, as I personally believe that he is the one that must live as a deaf individual, and therefore, it is his basic human right to decide how he chooses to do that. Should I have another deaf child, or a deaf grandchild, my decision would be the same.

I have, however stated, that my opposition to implantation in children is not the devise per say, but the attitude that once a child is implanted, they are no longer deaf, and as a consequence their need to be exposed to visual language and the community of others like them is ignored. That does tremendous harm to the development--both educational and emotional--of deaf children. I have personally witnessed the result of it on a daily bais for the past 20 years, and continue to do so. My opposition is to the oralist philosophy, both on moral and scientific grounds.

Yes, I do have moral objections to implantation of children, and I have what I believe are extremely valid reasons for those objections. However, just as I object to the hearing community attempting to force their views and their way of life on the deaf community, I do not attempt to tell other parents that they have no right to make the decisions they do for their children. I simply try to communicate the fact that, when they do implant, please keep in mind that their children are still deaf, and they still have specific needs related to deafness that must be addressed. My moral objections simply mean that I would not choose to implant a child of my own. I object, however, to ethnocentricism in any form.

When I advocate for the educational needs for deaf children, and for that which is necessary for their emotional and social development, it is not a CI issue. It is out of concern for the difficulties that I have witnessed in these children, and the problems associated with addressing them from a remedial standpoint. It is not an attempt to dictate parenting practices, it is an attempt to prevent the unneccessary suffering of another deaf child simply because a parent has not been informed of ALL the issues.

And I agree--Cole'smom is doing a wonderful job in fact finding prior to making her decisions. However, the very fact that she has admitted to being pushed in the direction of the oralists camp confirms my claims that the hearing community is still very much grounded in the oralist's camp, and hearing parents of deaf children are not being provided with all of the information they need to make informed and reasonable decisions. Furthermore, the fact that she has come to this board insearch of information tells me that the information she knows is necessary is not readily available. I commend her for her diligence.

Once again, it would appear that I have been judged far too quickly and on surface issues.
 
WOW. I am glad I had better resources. This mom is probably in denial. She may not want to accept the fact her child may be deaf or maybe just hoh. I almost went that way. I am so glad I snapped out of it. You can never have too much info on hearing loss for children. If I didn't feel the docs were moving fast enough I went over their heads and set up my own appointments with the specialists. I knew there was help out there I just had to take advantage of it. I hope this mom comes around. Maybe the info will help her understand her child better. I know I would have appreciated it.
 
ashleysmommy said:
WOW. I am glad I had better resources. This mom is probably in denial. She may not want to accept the fact her child may be deaf or maybe just hoh. I almost went that way. I am so glad I snapped out of it. You can never have too much info on hearing loss for children. If I didn't feel the docs were moving fast enough I went over their heads and set up my own appointments with the specialists. I knew there was help out there I just had to take advantage of it. I hope this mom comes around. Maybe the info will help her understand her child better. I know I would have appreciated it.
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Keep digging for that information, and go over anyone's head who stands in the way of getting the proper services for your child.
 
jillio said:
Because you stated in a previous post that you were in the hearing community more than the deaf, and had difficulties in communication with them.
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Now yes, I quit deaf community in my area to join in hearing community a couple years ago. Yes it's hard but I never regret the decision I made (loved the last two years of high school at public school than 6 years at school for the deaf). Well, not all deaf community is wonderful, that's what some people failed to see. And ironic is that because of where my field placement will put me in, I ended up have to go back to that community for my course (Hopefully it's improved all those years I am not there). I wanted to give some deaf people a better chance than what I got from education, services, etc. I would want to encourage them to go to college, not working in wal-mart or whatever and that's my goal. I mean where I come from, everything seems pretty hopeless for deaf people and because I am deaf myself, it hurts me. I know deaf people are more capable than what I have seen, only if they had someone being there for them, give them advices or guide them in the right direction. Only reason I made it to college is because my family wanted me to, I don't even remember school for the deaf did anything to help with that. They basically dumped me to fend for myself. (There's more reasons, but I will stop there because it's too long to explain.)

Only problem I have in hearing community is that I can't hear nor speak. I can write and read, sure...but come on that's not how the world work, sad but true. But I just wish that I was given a chance to learn how to speak or read lips or whatever. I wasn't given a chance.
 
ashleysmommy said:
WOW. I am glad I had better resources. This mom is probably in denial. She may not want to accept the fact her child may be deaf or maybe just hoh. I almost went that way. I am so glad I snapped out of it. You can never have too much info on hearing loss for children. If I didn't feel the docs were moving fast enough I went over their heads and set up my own appointments with the specialists. I knew there was help out there I just had to take advantage of it. I hope this mom comes around. Maybe the info will help her understand her child better. I know I would have appreciated it.
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Yes and that is exactly why people need to move on from being bogged down with debating the ethics of actually implanting a child and recognise the reality - it's going to happen. This involves providing a more positive and constructive approach that encourages parents to recognise the social challenges that deaf children face in mainstream environments, that they need similar peers and that their child is still deaf. This involves developing a strong communication relationship with the child also - because every child is different and has different preferences.

I think that if we had more of that culture on this board there would be less negativity and more learning and mutual respect of one another's personal beliefs.
 
I have never stated that deaf children should not be implanted at all. I have stated that it was my decision not to implant my son, as I personally believe that he is the one that must live as a deaf individual, and therefore, it is his basic human right to decide how he chooses to do that. Should I have another deaf child, or a deaf grandchild, my decision would be the same.

I have, however stated, that my opposition to implantation in children is not the devise per say, but the attitude that once a child is implanted, they are no longer deaf, and as a consequence their need to be exposed to visual language and the community of others like them is ignored. That does tremendous harm to the development--both educational and emotional--of deaf children. I have personally witnessed the result of it on a daily bais for the past 20 years, and continue to do so. My opposition is to the oralist philosophy, both on moral and scientific grounds.

Yes, I do have moral objections to implantation of children, and I have what I believe are extremely valid reasons for those objections. However, just as I object to the hearing community attempting to force their views and their way of life on the deaf community, I do not attempt to tell other parents that they have no right to make the decisions they do for their children. I simply try to communicate the fact that, when they do implant, please keep in mind that their children are still deaf, and they still have specific needs related to deafness that must be addressed. My moral objections simply mean that I would not choose to implant a child of my own. I object, however, to ethnocentricism in any form.

When I advocate for the educational needs for deaf children, and for that which is necessary for their emotional and social development, it is not a CI issue. It is out of concern for the difficulties that I have witnessed in these children, and the problems associated with addressing them from a remedial standpoint. It is not an attempt to dictate parenting practices, it is an attempt to prevent the unneccessary suffering of another deaf child simply because a parent has not been informed of ALL the issues.

And I agree--Cole'smom is doing a wonderful job in fact finding prior to making her decisions. However, the very fact that she has admitted to being pushed in the direction of the oralists camp confirms my claims that the hearing community is still very much grounded in the oralist's camp, and hearing parents of deaf children are not being provided with all of the information they need to make informed and reasonable decisions. Furthermore, the fact that she has come to this board insearch of information tells me that the information she knows is necessary is not readily available. I commend her for her diligence.

Once again, it would appear that I have been judged far too quickly and on surface issues.
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Ah, I had been wondering where you stand. I agree with you on what you say about Cole'smom. Too many hearing parents seem more concerned about the child's speech when they should be concerned about their language skills. I remember one guy from my oral class who had excellent speech skills and he could hear on the phone. It was a shock reading one of his notes as it was clear his language skills weren't good. You'd think that*I* of all people would know better than to make an assumution about good speech being equal to good language skills. :P

I agree that CIs do not make you hearing. You're still deaf even if you sound hearing.

If I were to marry a Deaf man and we had a deaf child, I'd have it implanted only if the Dad agrees to it. It's a joint decision. BTW, I'm not so concerned about CI children of Deaf families as they're more likey to know what the child will face and that they will have normal language development. They'll not make the mistake of assuming that CIs make them hearing.

With the Hearing, it depends on their attiudes toward sign and the d/Deaf in general. Many tend to take those they deem experts a bit too uncritically - sometimes with unfortunate results.

I'd be careful about marrying a hearing man because it'll depend on his attiude toward my deafness; I hate the controlling type who think they know more than the Deaf do and discount 'em as a rule.

I think you did an excellent job of raising your son. :)
 
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Silentwolfdog said:
Now yes, I quit deaf community in my area to join in hearing community a couple years ago. Yes it's hard but I never regret the decision I made (loved the last two years of high school at public school than 6 years at school for the deaf). Well, not all deaf community is wonderful, that's what some people failed to see. And ironic is that because of where my field placement will put me in, I ended up have to go back to that community for my course (Hopefully it's improved all those years I am not there). I wanted to give some deaf people a better chance than what I got from education, services, etc. I would want to encourage them to go to college, not working in wal-mart or whatever and that's my goal. I mean where I come from, everything seems pretty hopeless for deaf people and because I am deaf myself, it hurts me. I know deaf people are more capable than what I have seen, only if they had someone being there for them, give them advices or guide them in the right direction. Only reason I made it to college is because my family wanted me to, I don't even remember school for the deaf did anything to help with that. They basically dumped me to fend for myself. (There's more reasons, but I will stop there because it's too long to explain.)

Only problem I have in hearing community is that I can't hear nor speak. I can write and read, sure...but come on that's not how the world work, sad but true. But I just wish that I was given a chance to learn how to speak or read lips or whatever. I wasn't given a chance.
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I'm sorry that you weren't given some of the opportunities to develop oral skills that would be useful to you, but I do admire the fact that yu haven't let that stop you from setting goals for yourself and doing whatever you have to to reach those goals. And you are truly a special person for wanting to do your part to help others.
 
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