Learning ASL...

lpmegs

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Hello, i'm Megan. i just started learning ASL yesterday. i'm not too far along, but i was wondering if someone would want to help me practice. i'm doing ok so far. i'm pretty sure i have fingerspelling down. i've been fingerspelling like a crazy woman :)
i've also learned a few phrases.

This is the site i'm using the most:
? ASL ? American Sign Language

Hope to talk to you soon
 
:welcome: to AllDeaf forum. Have fun reading and posting all the threads here. See you around here. :wave:
 
I would love to help! I am just in ASL 1 but i think it would be fun to sign with someone else. Im a sophomore:)
 
You two can shoot video for my ASL program if you wanna. (place evil laughter here).

Don't you want to you FLUENT signers?? (seriously, using anything other than fluent signers, preferable Deaf native signers - is disrespectful to ASL and the Deaf community)
 
Don't you want to you FLUENT signers?? (seriously, using anything other than fluent signers, preferable Deaf native signers - is disrespectful to ASL and the Deaf community)

For signing the alphabet? Are fluent signers really that important for that part? If it's the dictionary, or phrases, then yeah I can see your point, but I doubt he's got fluent signers just lined up outside the door. Don't take that the wrong way. :)
 
Don't you want to you FLUENT signers?? (seriously, using anything other than fluent signers, preferable Deaf native signers - is disrespectful to ASL and the Deaf community)

I'm trying to get a good range of signers . and more than one video for each sign . so that people we be able to recognize the signing in real use not just the textbook signing.

but right now I just need help getting the videos to start it. it snows here every day that the models are comeing over.

EDIT: I'm not a Deaf native signers my self (i have months left before I'm fully deaf)., but I would love native signer models to volunteer.
 
For signing the alphabet? Are fluent signers really that important for that part? If it's the dictionary, or phrases, then yeah I can see your point, but I doubt he's got fluent signers just lined up outside the door. Don't take that the wrong way. :)

I've been trying to think of a way to put this so it doesn't sound rude (which isn't my intent) but is still "to the point" enough that the point isn't lost in politeness. I guess what I mean is I'm trying NOT to be Deaf and just say what I mean LOL !!


If you're trying to learn ASL, that means (even online) learning from people who are fluent signers. Signers for whom the handshapes used to form various letters and signs are exact, precise, well formed and naturally formed .

Sign Language handshapes - are (for this purpose) like sounds in English - when you speak with a person who's primary language isn't English most often you can tell ... because of the way they pronounce, enunciate and articulate etc the words. The words have a foreign "sound" to them, even though they are technically English words - right ??? It's the EXACT same for Signing ... students don't notice it, but fluent signers can tell if someone is an experienced signer, or not, by the way they form their letters, move their hands, hold their body ... dozens of little "cues" that add up to say "I'm new at this" or "This is MY language".


So... if you've decided to learn a new language and settle on learning ASL - or even more critically, if you KNOW someone who're Hoh/Deaf and uses ASL, or you're becoming Hoh/Deaf yourself...

Do you want to (and do you think it's morally right to) learn from a website:

In which the signing models have learned out of a textbook, or off another website (and they themselves aren't 100% sure if they're forming the signs correctly) and where the signing models have had no real practice, or limited practice using the language they are now "teaching" for all intents and purposes?

Would you want to learn a LANGUAGE (even the basics) from people who they themselves would be unable to communicate with you in that language if you met them in real life?

Would you want to learn about a language and a culture from someone who's actaully not immersed in either and is unaware of the many subtleties of the language as well as the cultural&social "norms" of that language as well as the various "cultural faux pas" of that language?

** OR **

If you were looking for a website designed to teach you (as a hearing person - or as a hoh/deaf person looking to become Hoh/Deaf) the Language of ASL as well as the cultural aspects of the primary linguistic community using that language (Hoh/Deaf infants, children & adults) would YOU want and EXPECT:

A site that was made by people who actaully USED the language, are FLUENT in the language and most likely use it as their primary (or at last preferred) means of communication.?

Would you hope and expect that the signing models would be people who represent that cultural group (Hoh/Deaf/CODA/SODA ASLers of the Deaf Community) to which the language belongs?


Wouldn't YOU want as YOUR TEACHERS people who are fluent (at least conversationally so) in the language AND the culture - so that you as a student not only learned from the people who are highly skilled in not only the "basics" of the language but also it's subtleties...but also out of respect for the Deaf & ASL community, who's language and culture you are attempting to learn so you can communicate with US: the Hoh/Deaf ASL Community?

Would you want and expect to learn from teachers who are highly skilled signers - or would you want and expect that to learn from people who are basically "actors" who've memorized their parts - regardless of the fact that it's disrespectful to the very people with whom you're hoping to communicate with?



I don't mean this to be rude - just realistic and stop a cultural train wreck before it leaves the station.


Along a similar line...
ASLers (H/Hoh/Deaf) make videos such as "Singing Time" etc of infants & young children reproducing ASL signs because it shows HEARING parents what to expect from their signing infants/children while the children are learning to sign.
This is because hearing parent don't understand what "ASL babble" looks like, which is the signed form a verbal babbling infants and toddlers make ("bbaabaa", "taaaa","bwwuuu","daaaddd ddaaddd","mamama" - and later "bouk","diddlediddle" and closer word approximations). The videos of various level young signers shows parent's/caregivers etc how infants ASL "babble" slowly transforms into actual properly formed signs as the child is physically ABLE to form the signs correctly. THAT is the reason, viewing the "amateur signs" (infant/toddler's version of signs) is valuable to the hearing parent.

Showing videos of teen & adult signers learning to sign doesn't have any real benefit - rather it just shows people incorrectly, or awkwardly forming Signs. The major issue with this is that many people will remember and try to reproduce the awkwardly formed (or even incorrectly formed) signs instead of the correctly formed ASL Sign. The bottom line is it's rarely if ever a good idea to show someone forming a sign wrong (or saying a word wrong) because often that "wrong" form sticks in the viewer/listeners head.

Signs should ALWAYS be demonstrated in as clear, accurate, and clean (fluid, relaxed, natural) form as possible ... and that required fluent signers.


I hope that helps?!
 
You know, if you put as much work into finding fluent volunteers as you did in writing that term paper of a response, then your whole response wouldn't have been needed.

There is one model fluent in ASL with in 50 miles of me and she has already volunteered. with out more I have to use Non-models .,. use non-ASL users and show them the signs as we go.,. or animate the whole thing. In other words I have to use what I have,
 
You know, if you put as much work into finding fluent volunteers as you did in writing that term paper of a response, then your whole response wouldn't have been needed.

There is one model fluent in ASL with in 50 miles of me and she has already volunteered. with out more I have to use Non-models .,. use non-ASL users and show them the signs as we go.,. or animate the whole thing. In other words I have to use what I have,

Why is my MY job to find fluent volunteers for YOUR website ?

Why don't you get non-local fluent signers to model the signs for you via video, put the Video on DVD and send it to you?

Frankly - as a Hoh/Deaf person ASLer myself, I find the "I can't be bothered to find people fluent in the language I'm going to TEACH via my website, so I'll just find 'actors' instead" attitude not only offensive but also incredibly misleading to your "clients".

I think the concept of what you want to do is fantastic - but if you make the choice to exclude native signers from signing on your website, a website that wants to be a "Rosetta Stone for ASL" it makes you no better than the person who takes a year of Japanese in high school and decides to "Teach Japanese" online to others.
It's insulting to the very community that you're trying to connect with.
Do you really not see that ?
 
Why is my MY job to find fluent volunteers for YOUR website ?

no one sed it was your job or even offered you the job. .... Just pointing out that it would have been less work to help than you spent complaining .

I would love to have expert help, I asked for help. but students and models are the only ones who care. so students and models are what I'm useing.

now if you have any usefull ideas I would like to hear them. but if you are just going to complaining about and downgrade the nice people who are helping then I'm finished talking to you.
 
no one sed it was your job or even offered you the job. .... Just pointing out that it would have been less work to help than you spent complaining .

I would love to have expert help, I asked for help. but students and models are the only ones who care. so students and models are what I'm useing.

now if you have any usefull ideas I would like to here them. but if you are just going to complaining about and downgrade the nice people who are helping then I'm finished talking to you.

IF you haven't already done so, I'd recommend you
contact:
South Carolina Association of the Deaf

SC school for the Deaf

SC-RID

SC Baptist Conference of the Deaf


I'm sure if you explained what you want to do, and how important it is that the signers in your videos/pictures be skilled, fluent signers that you'd be able to get a some additional volunteers.

Where there's a will there's a way.


P.S. I live in Canada ... and (more importantly) due to injuries in a car accident I have permanent injuries (muscle atrophy & weakness, spasms, nerve damage etc) which has made my signing, even after years of rehab (it took me months to relearn how to hold a pencil) easily understandable -but not fluid/clear enough to be a sign model for a website teaching ASL. Otherwise, I would have volunteered myself to help you with your vocab etc.
 
hey everyone, welcome:wave:
I agree with Anij and think they gave a very respectful and clear post about learning from fluent/native signers. Am in my 30's, I'm new hoh and learning ASL. Some years ago, I had worked with Deaf kids in a recreational program for a few years. Was a college job and I graduated and went into my field - but always retained the interest to learn more.

ASL is by definition a visual-spatial language, with local and regional differences. Things like facial grammar, even slight body position and other very specific visual things that you can miss without a real live person, are very important.

Anij gave some great references - here's brainstorming of mine- even if there isn't an active an open d/Deaf club, Deaf Coffee, or Happy Hour near you, the odds are there is a generally a church service that may offer some ASL gatherings, or a Deaf school that you can contact to see if they can give you any leads in the ACTUAL local Deaf community. Or there may be a d/D/hh center, adult group home with fluent staff, local or regional Deaf/ASL studies program where they may be able to connect you with someone. You could even try the local school system's Deaf ed, Exceptional Ed placements <the reference to "Ex Ed" is purely a way to find Deaf contact for this poster; I understand the issues surrounding that concept> - asking for resources in the DEAF community; try the local university's Accessibility Center <working with Deaf college students>.

Good luck-
 
SC school for the Deaf & blind is were I found the students. I live like 10 miles away from the school. but, it snows every time they are supposed to come over and start.
 
:hmm: I see, my thinking was more in terms of any fluent staff, or community members at, or affiliated with, any of those places. Or possibly, if at the school, 18YO+ fluent signers, if they have that age range, which I understand they may not.
 
:hmm: I see, my thinking was more in terms of any fluent staff, or community members at, or affiliated with, any of those places. Or possibly, if at the school, 18YO+ fluent signers, if they have that age range, which I understand they may not.

That was my idea as well.
I'd recommend adult signers - both for clarity and legal reasons.

If you are going to use any under 21 signers on your website you'll need to have a written extensive waiver from from their parents waiving ALL rights now, and in the future to anything related to the site, any images or videos and any profits etc. (When I was doing a large fundraiser I had a lawyer write the waiver form so that we where legally "covered")




P.S. Thanks Dogmom for understanding what I was trying to say in my previous post.
 
I've been trying to think of a way to put this so it doesn't sound rude (which isn't my intent) but is still "to the point" enough that the point isn't lost in politeness. I guess what I mean is I'm trying NOT to be Deaf and just say what I mean LOL !!


If you're trying to learn ASL, that means (even online) learning from people who are fluent signers. Signers for whom the handshapes used to form various letters and signs are exact, precise, well formed and naturally formed .

Sign Language handshapes - are (for this purpose) like sounds in English - when you speak with a person who's primary language isn't English most often you can tell ... because of the way they pronounce, enunciate and articulate etc the words. The words have a foreign "sound" to them, even though they are technically English words - right ??? It's the EXACT same for Signing ... students don't notice it, but fluent signers can tell if someone is an experienced signer, or not, by the way they form their letters, move their hands, hold their body ... dozens of little "cues" that add up to say "I'm new at this" or "This is MY language".


So... if you've decided to learn a new language and settle on learning ASL - or even more critically, if you KNOW someone who're Hoh/Deaf and uses ASL, or you're becoming Hoh/Deaf yourself...

Do you want to (and do you think it's morally right to) learn from a website:

In which the signing models have learned out of a textbook, or off another website (and they themselves aren't 100% sure if they're forming the signs correctly) and where the signing models have had no real practice, or limited practice using the language they are now "teaching" for all intents and purposes?

Would you want to learn a LANGUAGE (even the basics) from people who they themselves would be unable to communicate with you in that language if you met them in real life?

Would you want to learn about a language and a culture from someone who's actaully not immersed in either and is unaware of the many subtleties of the language as well as the cultural&social "norms" of that language as well as the various "cultural faux pas" of that language?

** OR **

If you were looking for a website designed to teach you (as a hearing person - or as a hoh/deaf person looking to become Hoh/Deaf) the Language of ASL as well as the cultural aspects of the primary linguistic community using that language (Hoh/Deaf infants, children & adults) would YOU want and EXPECT:

A site that was made by people who actaully USED the language, are FLUENT in the language and most likely use it as their primary (or at last preferred) means of communication.?

Would you hope and expect that the signing models would be people who represent that cultural group (Hoh/Deaf/CODA/SODA ASLers of the Deaf Community) to which the language belongs?


Wouldn't YOU want as YOUR TEACHERS people who are fluent (at least conversationally so) in the language AND the culture - so that you as a student not only learned from the people who are highly skilled in not only the "basics" of the language but also it's subtleties...but also out of respect for the Deaf & ASL community, who's language and culture you are attempting to learn so you can communicate with US: the Hoh/Deaf ASL Community?

Would you want and expect to learn from teachers who are highly skilled signers - or would you want and expect that to learn from people who are basically "actors" who've memorized their parts - regardless of the fact that it's disrespectful to the very people with whom you're hoping to communicate with?



I don't mean this to be rude - just realistic and stop a cultural train wreck before it leaves the station.


Along a similar line...
ASLers (H/Hoh/Deaf) make videos such as "Singing Time" etc of infants & young children reproducing ASL signs because it shows HEARING parents what to expect from their signing infants/children while the children are learning to sign.
This is because hearing parent don't understand what "ASL babble" looks like, which is the signed form a verbal babbling infants and toddlers make ("bbaabaa", "taaaa","bwwuuu","daaaddd ddaaddd","mamama" - and later "bouk","diddlediddle" and closer word approximations). The videos of various level young signers shows parent's/caregivers etc how infants ASL "babble" slowly transforms into actual properly formed signs as the child is physically ABLE to form the signs correctly. THAT is the reason, viewing the "amateur signs" (infant/toddler's version of signs) is valuable to the hearing parent.

Showing videos of teen & adult signers learning to sign doesn't have any real benefit - rather it just shows people incorrectly, or awkwardly forming Signs. The major issue with this is that many people will remember and try to reproduce the awkwardly formed (or even incorrectly formed) signs instead of the correctly formed ASL Sign. The bottom line is it's rarely if ever a good idea to show someone forming a sign wrong (or saying a word wrong) because often that "wrong" form sticks in the viewer/listeners head.

Signs should ALWAYS be demonstrated in as clear, accurate, and clean (fluid, relaxed, natural) form as possible ... and that required fluent signers.


I hope that helps?!

These are EXCELLENT points. If one searches for ASL lessons on line, there is no shortage of websites. Same with YouTube. So many people with limited knowlege trying to pass themselves off as experts on everything these days, it is hard sometimes to separate them from those who know what they are doing. Anyone, including a fumbling beginner such as myself, can memorize a bunch of signs from a book and make a video. What people don't understand is that these signs do not make a language. The biggest misconception - and one that I used to believe too- is that ASL is just substituting signs for english words - and this is what you see being done in the majority of "expert" instruction available online.

I did a lot of research before choosing the websites I use. I know that it is not the optimal way to learn ASL, but in getting my feet wet, it will do for now until I have the time and money to take a proper class from a fluent in ASL and preferably Deaf teacher. The sites I use are the above mentioned Lifeprint.com and WestwoodASL.com. Both are run by deaf men who are teachers of ASL, one college level, the other high school. They each have a somewhat different approach to teaching. Westwood is not free, but certainly not expensive. The Westwood lessons do not focus on vocabulary at all, but instead throw you right into conversation. Lifeprint does a little of both.

I want to start off on the right foot, treat ASL as the separate-from-English language that it is, and not pick up any bad habits that will be harder to correct later. I also don't want to do any disservice to the language. It deserves respect.
 
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