Jack Kevorkian a.k.a Dr Death has died.

Beach girl said:
The two are totally different things. My mom had a DNR order on her charts, after suffering congestive heart failure once and being "brought back." She had fluid drained from near her heart and other interventions that left her bruised and hurt. After that, she said "never again" and put DNR on the chart.

But no way would she have wanted assisted suicide. In her situation, she was not in great pain, was still in full possession of her mental faculties, enjoyed life, enjoyed being taken out to concerts and other social events, etc. She socialized with her friends at the nursing home, and my sisters visited for at least a few minutes almost every day.

My mom died peacefully 3 days after her 91st birthday, a few months after the episode of heart failure where they did a lot of interventions. She slipped first into a coma that lasted a few hours, and then passed peacefully. Both my sisters were with her, reading to her while she was still awake, and then they played some soft music for her after she slipped into a coma.

My mom was in no hurry to leave this life, but she was at peace when she did.

I appreciate that she was one of the fortunate ones in her manner of dying.
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While they are separate measures, the intent is the same. Not to prolong unnecessary suffering.

We could only hope that everyone's passing is as peaceful and comfortable as your mother's. For some, the only way to accomplish such is through assisted suicide.

PAS is like anything else...if you have objections to the concept, it is best that you not make the choice for yourself. However, we have no right to remove that choice from others who do not object to the concept.

I maintain that more PAS goes on in this country than anyone wants to believe. It can be accomplished covertly as confidentiality between physician and patient is one of the most protected forms of communication in this country. I daressay that many deaths that are attributed to the disease process in the individual were knowingly hastened in one way or another.
 
Beach girl said:
The two are totally different things. My mom had a DNR order on her charts, after suffering congestive heart failure once and being "brought back." She had fluid drained from near her heart and other interventions that left her bruised and hurt. After that, she said "never again" and put DNR on the chart.

But no way would she have wanted assisted suicide. In her situation, she was not in great pain, was still in full possession of her mental faculties, enjoyed life, enjoyed being taken out to concerts and other social events, etc. She socialized with her friends at the nursing home, and my sisters visited for at least a few minutes almost every day.

My mom died peacefully 3 days after her 91st birthday, a few months after the episode of heart failure where they did a lot of interventions. She slipped first into a coma that lasted a few hours, and then passed peacefully. Both my sisters were with her, reading to her while she was still awake, and then they played some soft music for her after she slipped into a coma.

My mom was in no hurry to leave this life, but she was at peace when she did.

I appreciate that she was one of the fortunate ones in her manner of dying.
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I am sorry to hear about your Mom. However, how is a DNR not a form of assisted suicide? I am talking about the case where without a DNR, all possible attempts will be made to keep the person alive, at all costs. A person croaks and is immediately brought back to pulsing life, groaning and begging to be let go since the pain is so unbearable. The person is ignored because after all life is SO PRECIOUS according to whatever religious or moral dogma the rescuer has. The patient goes through untold agony until he/she dies, and the rescuers shake hands with each other on a job well done. However, with a DNR, the would-be rescuer KNOWS that the patient will die and lets it happen. How is that different, really? It takes just a bit of fluid reasoning to a tiny leap to make that distinction, and I am sorry you cannot.
 
Beowulf said:
I am sorry to hear about your Mom. However, how is a DNR not a form of assisted suicide? I am talking about the case where without a DNR, all possible attempts will be made to keep the person alive, at all costs. A person croaks and is immediately brought back to pulsing life, groaning and begging to be let go since the pain is so unbearable. The person is ignored because after all life is SO PRECIOUS according to whatever religious or moral dogma the rescuer has. The patient goes through untold agony until he/she dies, and the rescuers shake hands with each other on a job well done. However, with a DNR, the would-be rescuer KNOWS that the patient will die and lets it happen. How is that different, really? It takes just a bit of fluid reasoning to a tiny leap to make that distinction, and I am sorry you cannot.
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Exactly. Failure to resuscitate is hastening the death process no matter how you twist it.
 
No, exactly not. Are you serious? Are we so used to medical interventions at all cost, at any time, we've lost sight of what happens when someone just says "no" to medical intervention?
 
Beach girl said:
No, exactly not. Are you serious? Are we so used to medical interventions at all cost, at any time, we've lost sight of what happens when someone just says "no" to medical intervention?
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We've evidently lost sight of the fact that palliative care to relieve pain quite often results in quicker death. But, hey, that is just nature because it is all part of the disease process, right?

A DNR gives a patient the autonomy to decide how they wish to die. PAS does the same.
 
Reba said:
That's why, I repeat, does anyone know what Kevorkian believed? Did he ever make any comments about his belief in death or about his art? How do people really know that he only cared about people's suffering and wasn't doing it for some perverse reason?

If Kevorkian believed and didn't care that he was sending people to an awful death, would he still be a hero?



Can you please quote me the code for that so I can read the exact wording?
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He was following people's wishes. If anyone was lead to an awful death, it was the person who made the decision to die,not the doctor.
 
If I was suffering and in so much pain for a long time, I sure would want a doctor to help me to die peacefully.
 
My mother requested having a DNR since she has a terminal illness that is considered a communicable disease. She has a blood borne infection. She got Hep C through a transfusion done at a hospital after getting a massive infection due to hospital error. The CDC was called out in her case. She was given 7 units of blood. Seems that at least 1 of them had Hep C. She now has cirrhosis of the liver. Any time we have an open sore or anything, we have to double bag it and drop it off at the hospital or doctor's office. She's tired of the extra work for me. She has said that if it's anything that does not involve her liver or respiratory system, then we can take care of it, but once it moves to the respiratory system of liver, then just to let her go. I don't see it as assisted suicide. It's nature taking it's course. I do know that others feel differently about that. Heck, my own brothers do and they are totally against my mother's wishes. But then, the younger of my brothers was also the one who told her when my father died, "Well mom, now that dad's dead, we need to put you into a nursing home so we kids can have our freedom." After mom slapped him, I kicked him real hard and punched and broke his jaw. Mom was 52 when he died. That is not old. Mom feels that if we did not have the DNR, then too much would be done and she would be in more pain and be more and more dependent on me for her care.
 
shel90 said:
If I was suffering and in so much pain for a long time, I sure would want a doctor to help me to die peacefully.
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I've got MS. There may very well come a day when I go looking for a Dr. Kervorkian. And I will be damned if anyone will tell me it is not my right to do so. I choose how I live, and I have the right, as a human being, to choose how I die.
 
The above is a blog. Take it with a huge grain of salt. I happen to be very well versed in the criteria for Death with Dignity in Oregon. The government, nor an insurance company, can recommend it.:roll:
 
jillio said:
Because they have no idea of the criteria for assisted suicide. I have encountered some amazing ignorance on this very topic.
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Oh, don't be so modest. You have encountered ignorance on dozens of topics. Right here on AD. :wave:
 
jillio said:
I've got MS. There may very well come a day when I go looking for a Dr. Kervorkian. And I will be damned if anyone will tell me it is not my right to do so. I choose how I live, and I have the right, as a human being, to choose how I die.
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Unquestionably. :cool2:
 
whatdidyousay! said:
Oregon Woman Denied Cancer Treatment by Government, Offered Suicide Instead | All American Blogger
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:shock:

What is wrong with the government or the insurance not helping the person make the decision on her or his own? The government nor the insurance has no say about this. :mad:

It is suppose to be on the person who is suffering or need the medicine to help control her cancer making the decision whether he/she want to live or end his/her life. That is why the article sound really fishy to me if it is only a blog. It does not look official at all.

No one should make the decision for her, only she can make the decision herself without the government. The government or the insurance company are 100% wrong, wrong,wrong and more wrong.

I would rather make my own decision whether I want to live longer as long as I don't have great and intense pain or end my life if there is going to be great and intense pain.
 
KristinaB said:
Oceanbreeze - I commend you for your loving actions for your father. I will be facing the same with my mother. She does have a terminal illness and the docs have said anywhere from 6 months to 5 years. It's hard to say how long the cirrhosis will take. We have already completed the living wills and power of attorneys and all. My brothers did not want the responsibility and decided that since she lived with me for the last 18 years, it should be me handling all the arrangements even though I am the "baby". We will be doing Hospice at Home when the time comes. Her doctors are already aware of this and when we informed her primary care doctor, he made arrangements to have her hematologist be from the Hospice doctors so that a relationship is already started. Mom is having more and more confusing days and gets slower about things, but cannot just settle down. She has to keep moving, so we let her do what she can, and go back and redo what needs to be redone, like refolding laundry or rewashing dishes. I think the hardest things for me was signing her DNR.

I personally am glad to know that Dr. Death has passed on. I don't see it as a massive news article, but then I try not to dwell on the news much anyway.
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Thank you, Kristina.

We, too, are in that state of limbo. We know that he has terminal illnesses and have been giving the prognosis (in our case 2 yrs), but he's still able to function rather normally despite his lung capacity being so crappy. We also know that his condition can change on a dime. We live in 3 mos increments. He gets tested every three months to moniter his lung function, heart, and to see whether the cancer has returned or not. Because he was unable to do chemo and radiation after his colon resection, he's high risk for the cancer returning. Should that happen, his prognosis would be drastically altered. We actually faced that scare. It turned out to be a false positive, but if you recall, I had left AD for a bit while we were waiting for all the testing to determine what was going on with him. Should his cancer return and we are faced with hospice, I'm going to leave AD to be with him.

This is truly something that has changed my life. I have never been more appreciative of life as I am now. I've never been more thankful, either.

A terminal illness is a game changer. One that I would NOT wish on anyone, but I can also honestly say that it has changed me for the better. I also want to say that I have support as we go through this. I have friends and family, but I also am seeing a therapist, and, she helps me process what is going on with him. I think support in whatever form it takes is critical when you face a terminal illness. I hate to think what I would be like if I didn't have someone to talk to on a weekly basis. I'd probably would have lost my mind; honestly.
 
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