I wouldn't have minded if my baby had been born deaf, but the embryology bill suggest

Miss-Delectable

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Rebecca Atkinson: I wouldn't have minded if my baby had been born deaf, but the embryology bill suggests I should | Comment is free | The Guardian

Earlier this year my first-born arrived. Like all new parents, I spent hours gazing in wonderment at this tiny creature who had fallen from the moon to be the centre of my world. The way his fingers danced in the air as if he was pulling the strings of an invisible harp in his sleep. How his little body flinched in response to the smallest of sounds: the rustle of paper or the ping of a sofa spring.

I was struck by his sensitivity to sound, but the fact that he is hearing came as no surprise. My partial deafness is caused by a recessive gene, so my hearing partner would have to carry the same gene for our son to be deaf. Not impossible, but unlikely. Would I have minded if he was deaf? Did I hope he would be hearing? I can honestly say I had no preference.

While my deafness is only partial and spoken English is my first language, my sister, her husband and his family are all profoundly deaf sign language users. I will make every effort to pass on their wonderful expressive language to my son, so that he can communicate with his extended family and grow up knowing that communication through both sound and silence hold equal merit.

But this notion that hearing and deafness can somehow stand side by side, equal but different, is a rare one. A generation ago, the Disability Discrimination Act was passed, affording a degree of equality to deaf and disabled people. However, when it comes to equal rights in the realm of reproduction, it appears that a double bind is at play. No, you can't chuck someone out of your restaurant on the grounds of their deafness but yes, you can determine that more folk like them don't get born in the first place. The human fertilisation and embryology bill, which is due to reach report stage in the House of Commons this autumn, contains a little-known clause that the deaf campaign group Stop Eugenics has argued will curtail the reproductive equality of deaf parents and the rights of potential deaf babies.

According to clause 14 of the bill, any embryo known to have a serious illness or disability "must not be preferred to those that are not known to have such an abnormality". In other words, to implant an embryo known to have deafness when other hearing ones are present will become illegal. Additionally, ambiguous wording means the bill could conceivably be interpreted to forbid an individual with a genetic condition from becoming an egg or sperm donor.

Tomato Lichy and Paula Garfield, a deaf couple from London, appeared on Radio 4's Today programme earlier this year to discuss their opposition to Clause 14. The couple argued that they would actively want a deaf child were they to undergo IVF in the future.

But why would anyone want a deaf baby? Sheer madness? To understand a desire for deafness to be passed down through generations requires a paradigm shift in the way that we view the condition. There are an estimated 9 million people in Britain with some degree of deafness (most will be over-60s with age-related hearing loss). Of these, an estimated 70,000 use British Sign Language as their preferred means of communication, many of whom come from families with as many as eight successive generations of deafness. For this group, Deaf with a capital D denotes membership of a unique cultural and linguistic minority, rather than a medical aggregate of people with a hearing loss. To them, Deaf, like "black", is not just a description of a physical attribute, but an expression of pride, belonging and cultural identity.

The idea of wanting a deaf baby still remains unfathomable to most, but let us not forget that the popular notion of deafness is one constructed around our fear of what it might be like to have our hearing taken away rather than direct knowledge. Surely the experts on what it's like to be a deaf child are not those who wish to cast value judgment based on assumption but those who have been deaf children themselves. Yet no deaf or disabled people were consulted during the drafting of the bill.

The media debate and moral condemnation that followed Lichy and Garfield's radio appearance was steeped in misunderstanding. The couple were perceived as barbaric parents wishing to genetically pierce the eardrums of an embryo that otherwise left alone would grow into a hearing child. If this were the case, then no person in their right mind would advocate an amendment to Clause 14.

But this is not about tweaking the genes of a hearing embryo, a technical impossibility. It's about laying two potential children in embryonic form side by side and affording more right to life to the hearing one by making it illegal to issue preference to the deaf one. It's about dismissing the opinions, experience and claims of deaf people as madness in favour of the majority view that deafness is something best avoided. In short, this is not about creating a hearing child and then making it deaf. It's about not being able to give life and therefore equality to an embryo that is already deaf.

I had no preference as to the form my son came in, and I would never use IVF to screen in or screen out, but as a deaf person I can't help but feel slightly affronted that the bill affords more right to life to you the hearing reader, than me the deaf writer, were we to be lying side by side in embryonic form in a petri dish. Indeed, it makes it illegal to choose me over you.
 
AGBell would be jumping for joy in his grave over this! :roll:
 
This bill is absurdity at its finest. Thanks for this article, Miss D. It was eloquently written, and well stated.
 
The meaning behind the bill is sincere. I do think that they should make sure that carriers of very serious disorders like Tay-Sachs, (causes early death) etc shouldn't have babies.
 
The meaning behind the bill is sincere. I do think that they should make sure that carriers of very serious disorders like Tay-Sachs, (causes early death) etc shouldn't have babies.

Sincere or not, it's treading on dangerous ground and I disagree with it. If you do something like this, even if your intentions are good, you inadvertantly open up the flood gates for people to want to screen and eliminate non lethal genetic conditions like deafness caused by the connexin gene mutations.
 
That's very very true Oceanbreeze.
I think criteria needs to be very strict in this area. I think that there should be no grief about someone who carries Tay-Sachs or whatever lethal disorder genes being sterilized or whatever. However for milder stuff, I think that they shouldn't be all eugenicy.
 
I read the bill after this news. It actually doesnt say anything about deafness. It says :

(9)

Persons or embryos that are known to have a gene, chromosome or
mitochondrion abnormality involving a significant risk that a person
with the abnormality will have or develop—
(a)
a serious physical or mental disability,
(b)
a serious illness, or
(c)
any other serious medical condition,
must not be preferred to those that are not known to have such an
abnormality.

These are all valid concerns. While you are making a law , you do not say serious illness and then list everything that will be or will not be considered under it. They wrote it the way how they were supposed to prepare the bill. And if it becomes the law , then courts will construe the law later on, decide what is considered to be serious illness.

If deafness is considered serious physical disability, an abnormality, British people are supposed to take this notion to the court, instead of trying to get the whole section of the bill canceled.

Here is the problem : If deafness is not an abnormality, it shouldnt be associated with this bill at the first point. That section of the bill was written in a broader sense , and it doesnt mention deafness. While this is true, if you come up and associate deafness with this bill, you already are calling deafness as an abnormality. Therefore you are validating some hearing people's concern.

The original news article is talking about all the good stuff but aiming the wrong target. "Deafness is not an abnormality" issue has got nothing to do with "Should healthy embryos be preferred over seriously ill ones" question. If deafness is considered to be a serious physical disablity (I dont know the previous British Court rulings on this issue) then the goal should be taking deafness out of this category , instead of trying to change the bill in a way that allows ill embryos to be implemented too. Later suggests "deafness is an abnormality, but we want you to allow it regardless" .

I am not sure if this is the message you want to send out.

Regards
Hermes
 
Here is the problem : If deafness is not an abnormality, it shouldnt be associated with this bill at the first point. That section of the bill was written in a broader sense , and it doesnt mention deafness. While this is true, if you come up and associate deafness with this bill, you already are calling deafness as an abnormality. Therefore you are validating some hearing people's concern.

In that case, I associate inability to learn sign language with this bill. :naughty:
 
Yes, I am very concerned about this bill going ahead. It is very wrong to discriminate like this. Unfortunately only the pro life groups seem to oppose this bill. This is how I got more involved in the pro life movement in the first place as I wanted to opose this bill.

It's now being debated in parliment again. If you live in the UK and feel strongly about the rights of deaf people not to be eliminated at birth then here is a time to do something about it.
 
That's very very true Oceanbreeze.
I think criteria needs to be very strict in this area. I think that there should be no grief about someone who carries Tay-Sachs or whatever lethal disorder genes being sterilized or whatever. However for milder stuff, I think that they shouldn't be all eugenicy.

I agree with you. I have two issues with this, though:

1. How do you differentiate? You are really walking on thin ice, because if you mandate this for a group of fatal disorders, what's to stop someone from adding to that list?

2. I have a serious issue with anything that is mandatory. I'm for choice. It's one thing for a woman to choose to abort a fetus with an anomoly, but it's another thing to mandate genetic testing and forced abortions or whatever. I am for choice. I am NOT for telling someone they MUST do it.
 
Unfortunately the bill seems to have passed: MPs vote to allow human-animal hybrids - Telegraph

They talk mainly about human animal hybrid research which is really wrong I think. They don't actually mention anything about excluding deaf embryo's from ITV treatment though.

One good thing though is our abortion laws aren't going to be extended to Northern Ireland after all. There was too much opposition there.
 
The meaning behind the bill is sincere. I do think that they should make sure that carriers of very serious disorders like Tay-Sachs, (causes early death) etc shouldn't have babies.

Tay sachs is a RECESSIVE genetic disorder. People who carry the gene can, through the wonders of pre-implantation diagnosis and options like sperm/egg donation from those not of high risk (ashkenazi jew) backgrounds.

Even if it was restricted to severe and life-limiting disorders, we're already walking murky grounds.

If a person carries cystic fibrosis and has, say, the financial means to go through just one IVF cycle. 1 embyro does not have CF and 3 are either carriers or have the disease.. would it be OK to force that person to just implant one embyro at the trade off of a much lower success rate? CF is still a life shortening chronic illness, but it's not the imminently terminal disease it once was- should that parent not have a fair shake at having a baby, even if the baby has or carries the gene for cf?

For a milder option, what if the person has a metabolic disorder that their partner also carries the gene for, like PKU? With dietary management, PKU is not life shortening or disabling- but it is expensive for the state, which usually covers the very expensive phenylalanine-free formula required. Should the person with PKU be forced to discard the 3 embryos that have or carry PKU?


-


In any case, this law isn't talking about preventing gene carriers from having children. Anyone who KNOWS they and their partner carry the gene for tay sachs, which causes a horrible death by all of six years old, is not going to be having children without taking proper precautions. Unfortunately, most people don't know they carry the gene.

What this bill IS talking about is not being able to use that same genetic diagnosis used to discard embryos with severe disorders like tay sachs to select a child that DOES have the gene, ie, does have the illness, in favor of a child that does NOT.

Which means that a deaf person cannot, if they go through IFV, select a deaf embyro, nor can a little person select a little child, or a blind person a blind child, so on and so forth. We're not talking about life-shortening severe disabilities. We're talking about denying a parent the right to choose a child that is just like them- because that child is viewed as only worthy of disposal in societal eyes.

Having laws like this in place take us 20000 steps back. It is, at it's core, saying "A nondisabled life is worth more than a disabled life- and you are legally obligated to agree with us!"

If it became possible to select the racial markers a child would have, like having 'normal' eyes versus almond-shaped asian eyes, or pale white skin versus olive or black, so on and so forth.. would the world not kick up a fuss if people tried to pass a law saying "you must select an embryo that looks like a normal white baby" ... I'm going to bet yes. The law is saying the SAME things about disability, and that's just dead wrong.
 
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