House panel finds Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt

Jiro said:
good. then it's not censorship.


I thought we're sticking with facts?

what you're describing is a perjury. that's not what happened in here. Congress voted to hold Holder in contempt for refusing to turn over subpoenaed documents. and FYI - Holder is not being criminally charged with anything.
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yet...
 
Jiro said:
good. then it's not censorship.


I thought we're sticking with facts?

what you're describing is a perjury. that's not what happened in here. Congress voted to hold Holder in contempt for refusing to turn over subpoenaed documents. and FYI - Holder is not being criminally charged with anything.
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Umm....Yes he is. The house voted for Both Criminal Contempt and Civil Contempt. They took 2 separate votes today.
 
Reba said:
How was I incorrect? It wasn't my statement--it came directly from the Justice Department.

"In a second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair."

If you have a problem with that statement (from my previous post), take it up with the Justice Department. They said it, not me. All I did was post and link it.
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Are you saying that Operation Fast and Furious started during Obama Admin while Bush Admin has different type of operation?
 
Foxrac said:
Yup, Reba was just point at me, not you.

It seems like Steinhauer get confused so easily or he's trying to play game with you.
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No, just getting an admission from Jiro that he already knew he was giving out false information since he knew it was you whom was told and not him ....

See how that works?
 
Steinhauer said:
No, just getting an admission from Jiro that he already knew he was giving out false information since he knew it was you whom was told and not him ....

See how that works?
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what false information?
 
Holder Found in Contempt of Congress Over Gun Inquiry
In a statement, the White House accused House Republicans of engaging in “political theater rather than legitimate Congressional oversight.” It also noted that a day earlier, Mr. Issa said his investigation had uncovered no evidence and now had no strong suspicion that Mr. Holder had known about or authorized a tactic used in Fast and Furious called gunwalking. Under the practice, investigators do not swiftly interdict weapons and arrest low-level suspects in an effort to build a larger case.
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Operation Fast and Furious was conducted from late 2009 to early 2011 by Phoenix-based agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives who were looking into a gun-smuggling network linked to a Mexican drug cartel.
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Some Republicans and conservative commentators have claimed that senior Obama administration officials must have initiated or authorized the tactics. But public testimony and documents have not produced evidence to support such claims. Information has emerged, however, showing that the Phoenix division of the A.T.F. had a running dispute with Arizona-based prosecutors over how much evidence was necessary to bring charges in straw-purchasing cases, and that its agents had used similar tactics — and lost track of guns — in three other investigations, during the Bush administration.
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The Justice Department had offered to give Congress several hundred of the disputed documents if Republicans scrapped the contempt recommendation. The White House on Tuesday allowed Republican staff members to scan about a dozen of them, which it portrayed as a representative sample. But the two sides failed to reach a deal.
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House holds Holder in contempt - CNN.com
Among other things, Democrats contend that California GOP Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has refused to let witnesses proposed by Democrats give public testimony. They also claim he has been demanding documents outside the scope of the subpoenas Holder is accused of violating.
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You are sidetracking (aka "derailing") :wave:

This discussion is about Holder's refusal to fork over documents. He has been found to be in criminal contempt. :wave:
 
A primer on the "Fast and Furious" scandal - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
What is "Project Gunrunner"?
"Project Gunrunner" is a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) national initiative under the Justice Department started in 2006 aimed at reducing US-Mexico cross-border drug and gun trafficking and violence.

What is "Fast and Furious"?
"Fast and Furious" is the name ATF assigned to a group of Phoenix, Arizona-area gun trafficking cases under Project Gunrunner that began in fall of 2009. It's the largest of several known operations in which ATF employed gunwalking, involving more than 2,000 weapons, including hundreds of AK-47 type semi-automatic rifles and .50 caliber rifles. According to sources who worked directly on the case, the vast majority of guns were not tracked and Mexico's government was not fully informed of the case. The ATF Special Agent in Charge of the operation was Bill Newell.

Who thought up the idea to use gunwalking to try to counter gun trafficking to Mexican drug cartels?
Nobody has publicly acknowledged being the architect of the plan and available documents shed no light on the answer. Justice Department officials have maintained it was a scandal brainstormed at the ATF Phoenix level. The same ATF Special Agent in Charge, Bill Newell, supervised the Bush era Wide Receiver gunwalking operation and some of the later gunwalking cases, including Fast and Furious.

What are Operations "Castaway," "Too Hot to Handle," and the Hernandez case?
Operations Castaway and Too Hot to Handle are among a dozen or so other cases ATF operated that allegedly employed gunwalking in recent years including Florida, New Mexico, Texas and Arizona. In the Hernandez case, started under the Bush Administration in 2007, documents show ATF agents watched several suspects and weapons cross the border in coordination with Mexican officials who then failed to stop the suspects, so they were lost.

Who is the highest-ranking official who has admitted knowing about gunwalking?
The head of the Justice Department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, is the highest-ranking official who admits knowing that ATF had used the tactic of gunwalking early on. Breuer's deputy wrote him in April 2010 that in Wide Receiver, a case started under the Bush Administration. "ATF let a bunch of guns walk," and said it could be "embarrassing" to ATF. When those documents were made public on Oct. 31, 2011, Breuer issued a statement saying he didn't alert others in Justice Department leadership about the gunwalking, that he "regrets" not having done so, and that he likewise regretted not alerting leaders about the similarities between Wide Receiver, started in 2006, and Fast and Furious, started in 2009, at a time when the Justice Department's public position was that no gunwalking had ever occurred. Documents show two other justice officials mulled over gunwalking in Wide Receiver on Oct. 18, 2010 as they discussed the pros and cons of prosecuting the case. "It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but is a significant set of prosecutions," wrote Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division. Deputy Chief of the National Gang Unit James Trusty replied "I'm not sure how much grief we get for 'guns walking.' It may be more like, "Finally they're going after the people who sent guns down there."

What have Bush Administration officials said about Wide Receiver under their watch?
Former Bush Administration Attorney General Alberto Gonzales (Attorney General from Feb. 2005- Sept. 2007) has denied repeated interview and information requests made by CBS News. In a 2006 memo to the US Attorney's office, an ATF attorney outlined a gunwalking proposal from his agency and stated that he had "moral objections" to the idea. In an interview with CBS News, the US Attorney at the time, Paul Charlton, said he had no memory of the memo but that "I don't believe I would or ever did approve letting guns walk." However, we know the gunwalking operation proceeded anyway. (In a strange twist, Charlton is the lawyer for Brian Terry's family, but after questions about Wide Receiver, handed the lead role in the case to a partner ). Gonzales' successor, Michael Mukasey (Attorney General from Nov. 2007-Jan. 2009) has provided no public comment. At a Senate Judiciary hearing on June 12, 2012 Holder claimed Mukasey "was briefed" on gunwalking tactics in Wide Receiver "and did nothing to stop them - nothing." When Sen. Grassley asked Holder's office to provide any evidence to back the claim, Holder retracted it saying the statement was "inadvertent."

What is Attorney General Holder's position on what-he-knew-when?
Holder has consistently denied knowing anything about gunwalking within his agency when it was occurring. ATF is a division of Holder's Justice Department. He asked the Justice Department Inspector General to investigate in late February 2010. That investigation is ongoing. Holder has answered Congressional questions on Fast and Furious at nine hearings. On May 3, 2011 he told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks." Yet documents show that at least ten months before the hearing, frequent memos discussing Fast and Furious were addressed to Holder. There were memos dating as far back as July 2010 to Holder from Breuer and the head of the National Drug Intelligence Center. However, the Justice Department says Holder didn't read the memos, and that any mention of Fast and Furious did not discuss the controversial gunwalking tactics. The Justice Department also said that Holder misunderstood the question at the May 3, 2011 hearing and that, while he heard of Fast and Furious much earlier than he'd stated, he meant to say that he hadn't heard specifically about any gunwalking.

What is the White House position on who-knew-what-when?
President Obama has consistently said he knew nothing of any gunwalking while it was occurring. When asked about the gunwalking allegations by a reporter from Univision on March 22, 2011, President Obama stated that "a serious mistake may have been made." He also stated that there would be an investigation and whoever was found to be responsible would be held accountable. Documents and testimony since that time indicate then-National Security staffer at the White House named Kevin O'Reilly repeatedly communicated by email and telephone with ATF Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious, Bill Newell, about the case while it was underway. O'Reilly indicated in one email that he wanted to share information about the case with other National Security staffers, but stated that it would go no further than that. White House officials have said there is no evidence that Newell and O'Reilly ever discussed the controversial tactic of gunwalking and, on those grounds, have blocked the attempts of Congressional Republicans to interview O'Reilly, who has since been sent on assignment to Iraq for the State Department. In documents turned over by the White House to date, there is no evidence the President or others at the White House had knowledge of gunwalking.
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I'm wait for someone to answer my question about senate.

It seems like all of you, except for Reba, are too busy to quibbling around.

It did not embarrassed me about Holder because of contempt that based on political reason.
 
TXgolfer said:
Yes, yes they have their weak attempts at a defense. I especially loved the "to date". Well of course. That is the entire issue. :) Hopefully they will request a special prosecutor and get to the bottom of it.
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fine by me! independent investigation is needed too.
 
The spin Holder put on this is wretched. It is NOT an election year ploy by the Republicans. He has had over a year to procure these documents. He didn't do it.

It is a Democrat ploy to pass blame on Republicans for lax gun laws allowing guns to be smuggled into the hands of Mexican Drug Cartels when it was the Democrats that were doing this to pass stricter gun laws.

Yeah ... we followed that bouncing ball without skipping a beat.

And the implications of Holder being held in contempt when Obama used executive privilege is .... well ... you figure it out.

Why would Obama suppress documents if he wasn't personally involved?
 
Steinhauer said:
The spin Holder put on this is wretched. It is NOT an election year ploy by the Republicans. He has had over a year to procure these documents. He didn't do it.

It is a Democrat ploy to pass blame on Republicans for lax gun laws allowing guns to be smuggled into the hands of Mexican Drug Cartels when it was the Democrats that were doing this to pass stricter gun laws.

Yeah ... we followed that bouncing ball without skipping a beat.

And the implications of Holder being held in contempt when Obama used executive privilege is .... well ... you figure it out.

Why would Obama suppress documents if he wasn't personally involved?
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source please?
 
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