Hearies view on a CI kid... its a bummer

[Liebling:-)))]

Shel I think the difference between your oral skills and my children oral skills would be huge. I know that profoundly deaf children and adults can develop oral skills but it really is hard. You have struggle so hard. The difference with my kids is that they do not have to struggle so hard. I really do not mean to offend you but can you talk on the phone and understand what is being said to you. Can you understand everything someone is telling you with their backs turned to you.

What I am saying is that a CI makes it so much easier to be oral if that is what you want. I am not saying to you should get an implant and I would never tell you that because you are happy with the way you. What I am saying is your goal is to develop oral skills then an CI will help you.

I am sorry that I respectfully disagree on this.

You cannot compare your children´s oral skills with other children. Remember each child is different.

It´s good to know that CI work on your children great which others doesn´t.

Like what I said before, CI itself do not develop hear and speech skill but child´s moviation.

I has to honest with you that HA children can speak like HOH/hearing and CAN phone as well. I know from my experience because my friends are one of them.

At first I thought my friends are HOH until they told me that they are really DEAF without HA... I was like WHAT... because they act HOH/hearing... I learn from them that most parents wear HA on them straight way when they were 6 months old that´s time CI was not round... Its about their own moviation, not HA and CI. My parents wore HA on me when I was 5 years old which is not good.

 

[jillio]

Yea...wish I wasnt placed in an oral-only deaf ed program. It didnt do much for me. I am sure I would have taken off like a rocket in a BiBi environment.

Yep, talk about giving the child the opportunity to be as successful as possible! There's the creation of opportunity, IMO.

 

[jillio]

U know what I am seeing here...a group of members who value what goes in the ears and what comes out of the mouth, while the others value what's between the ears.

That's it in a nutshell. Sad, sin't it?

 

[jillio]

Shel I think the difference between your oral skills and my children oral skills would be huge. I know that profoundly deaf children and adults can develop oral skills but it really is hard. You have struggle so hard. The difference with my kids is that they do not have to struggle so hard. I really do not mean to offend you but can you talk on the phone and understand what is being said to you. Can you understand everything someone is telling you with their backs turned to you.

What I am saying is that a CI makes it so much easier to be oral if that is what you want. I am not saying to you should get an implant and I would never tell you that because you are happy with the way you. What I am saying is your goal is to develop oral skills then an CI will help you.

Again, jackie, look at it from the holistic perspective. Differnces in oral skills is not the issue. Whether a child can hear well, or not at all is not the issue. The way others perceive them, and then create disabling situations for them based on those perceptions, is the issue.

 

[jillio]

ASL has shown me that oral skills are not the only important thing in life and doesnt define me as a person like I used to believe by being placed in an oral-only environment. If all deaf/hoh children had both from the get go, maybe we wouldnt have all these problems.

I feel like a complete person now and I dont need good oral skills. Life is not about what comes out of the person's mouth but what comes out of the person's mind. That is my primary focus for my students.

Why can't they see beyond hearing and speaking?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

ASL has shown me that oral skills are not the only important thing in life and doesnt define me as a person like I used to believe by being placed in an oral-only environment. If all deaf/hoh children had both from the get go, maybe we wouldnt have all these problems.

I feel like a complete person now and I dont need good oral skills. Life is not about what comes out of the person's mouth but what comes out of the person's mind. That is my primary focus for my students.

I understand what you are saying. I agree. You are the one that has mention that you have good oral skills. You also mention that a profoundly deaf person can have good oral skills, this is why I was asking you can you talk on the phone or can you understand people if they are not facing you.

I agree it is more important to have somthing going on between your ears. My point is that I am also concern with what is going on between the ears. My goal with my children is that if possible they have have good oral skills and have everything going on between the ears too.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

One of my students this year got implanted and she can easily use spoken language just as the same with my other student who was referred from the oral program who has no implant. He can speak well enough too.

My best friend is profoundly deaf since birth and she can talk on the phone. No implants. My other friend who was born deaf speaks fluent Spanish due to growing up in Puerto Rico..she has no implants. There are so many more..

Yes, it makes it easier but if one's life's quality is measured on how well they can hear then that means there is the assumption that all deaf people who dont have implants lead a poor quality life. Interesting.

Hey everyone, our quality of life depends on how well we can hear!!! Wow! I didnt know that!

Exactly... I have seen in real life like that... My friends speak like HOH/hearing with that HA... no CI...

Many deaf can speak and understand different languages when they live at other countries with different languages. I am one of them... I find sad that hearing people think deaf cán´t do that...

 

[jillio]

I just spoke with my hearing friend who just got a job as a deaf educator. She told me that where she works at is an oral-only program and I was shocked cuz she strongly believes in ASL. She said that in San Deigo, the signing programs are getting fewer so fewer jobs so I started asking her questions. She said it was a challenge for her not to sign cuz she can see that many of her students could benefit from both signing and spoken language but she is not allowed to sign with them. To me, that is denying a good quality education for deaf/hoh kids. I cant believe this BS is happening everywhere. Not allowed to sign with kids when it is apparent that they were missing out on information in the spoken environment. I feel like quitting deaf ed cuz it is just made me sick what my friend just told me. She is still going continue to apply at the signing programs cuz she feels sick daily when the other teachers push the deaf/hoh kids to use their voice and to put their hands down when they tried to sign. What the hell??????

Please don't quit shel. Deaf kids need you.

I understand exactly what you are saying. As long as that child is not signing and making it obvious that they are deaf, it is okay to deny them information! The goal is to make them appear to be less deaf, not to educate them. :rl:

 

[jillio]

I agree...by making the ability to hear and speak as the primary focus of the child's life will lead to bigger problems later. That's why in middle school, I purposely broke the FM system several times cuz it was my way of saying "ENOUGH is ENOUGH" about putting so much focus on my ability to hear by the teachers. Ugh!!!

Yep, stop concentrating on trying to make the deafness less apparent, and concentrate on the child.

 

[jillio]

I am sorry that I respectfully disagree on this.

You cannot compare your children´s oral skills with other children. Remember each child is different.

It´s good to know that CI work on your children great which others doesn´t.

Like what I said before, CI itself do not develop hear and speech skill but child´s moviation.

I has to honest with you that HA children can speak like HOH/hearing and CAN phone as well. I know from my experience because my friends are one of them.

At first I thought my friends are HOH until they told me that they are really DEAF without HA... I was like WHAT... because they act HOH/hearing... I learn from them that most parents wear HA on them straight way when they were 6 months old that´s time CI was not round... Its about their own moviation, not HA and CI. My parents wore HA on me when I was 5 years old which is not good.

Yep, and when I posted in another thread that my profi=oundly deaf son could use a telephone with his HA, I was told I was lying. **sighs**

 

[jillio]

I am sorry that I respectfully disagree on this.

You cannot compare your children´s oral skills with other children. Remember each child is different.

It´s good to know that CI work on your children great which others doesn´t.

Like what I said before, CI itself do not develop hear and speech skill but child´s moviation.

I has to honest with you that HA children can speak like HOH/hearing and CAN phone as well. I know from my experience because my friends are one of them.

At first I thought my friends are HOH until they told me that they are really DEAF without HA... I was like WHAT... because they act HOH/hearing... I learn from them that most parents wear HA on them straight way when they were 6 months old that´s time CI was not round... Its about their own moviation, not HA and CI. My parents wore HA on me when I was 5 years old which is not good.

Yep, and when I posted in another thread that my profoundly deaf son could use a telephone with his HA, I was told I was lying. **sighs**

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A deaf person born with severe to profound hearing loss WILL NOT learn to speak just like that!!! there must be extraordinairy circumstances for that to happen.

YES, they can due their good willing.

Really? But how WELL?
I don't believe for a minute she can speak as any normal hearing person. Heck, I don't believe she understand 2/3 of what she hears. Guesses, yes but not HEARS.
I can talk on the phone too, so what? It's not easy, I don't get everything what is said, and it is very exhausting. But for someone standing from a distance I seem to be able to "talk on the phone".

YES, they can... I withnessed in real life because they are my friends... I thought all the time that they are HOH but really is they are DEAF without HA. They can hear background and can speak on the phone.

If you intend to prove a deaf person without CI is as able to communicate verbally as a deaf person without CI, first get your facts backed up by something with substance- like having your examples presented with complete detailed medical and life history of that person.

I have seen deaf people "talking on the phone". And for every ONE person who can, there is 20 that CAN'T.

No matter either it work on HA nor CI but people´s own willing.

yes, exactly - without all that we have NOTHING.

Exactly, you should be glad that you have everything...

 

[jackiesolorzano]

What does this have to do with the way others treat your children, and their other needs? You are focused only on their hearing and speaking. Hearing and speaking will not serve them very well if they are so impaired from emotional and adjustment problems that they are incapable of utilizing those skills to the optimal level. I'm not saying that your children are emotionally impaired, so don't get all defensive on me. I am saying, however, that this is a very real and distubing consequence to keeping a deaf child isolated in an oral environment. Perhaps you don't see it simply because you do work with younger children.

I really do not see how I am keeping my kids isolated. They do go to a high school that there is only 1 other deaf student there but they have a very big group of deaf friends that they see outside of school.

Jillo I remember a comment you made about how my son needs to have older deaf people for social reasons. He does, my daughter has male friends that range from 2 to 5 years older then my son. Some of these friends are oral, some a combination of both and some only sign. My daughter has several teacher friends of mine that she gets along well with that range from HH to deaf. After you wrote that comment I thought about it and I agree it is important that they have deaf people in their lives that accept them for who they are. But thank you for bringing this to my attention I never thought about it before.

 

[jillio]

I understand what you are saying. I agree. You are the one that has mention that you have good oral skills. You also mention that a profoundly deaf person can have good oral skills, this is why I was asking you can you talk on the phone or can you understand people if they are not facing you.

I agree it is more important to have somthing going on between your ears. My point is that I am also concern with what is going on between the ears. My goal with my children is that if possible they have have good oral skills and have everything going on between the ears too.

Are you speaking of simply the intellectual side of their brains, or the affective side as well. A child who is dealing with issues of acceptance and self esteem cannot fully concentrate on using their intellect to the fullest.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I just spoke with my hearing friend who just got a job as a deaf educator. She told me that where she works at is an oral-only program and I was shocked cuz she strongly believes in ASL. She said that in San Deigo, the signing programs are getting fewer so fewer jobs so I started asking her questions. She said it was a challenge for her not to sign cuz she can see that many of her students could benefit from both signing and spoken language but she is not allowed to sign with them. To me, that is denying a good quality education for deaf/hoh kids. I cant believe this BS is happening everywhere. Not allowed to sign with kids when it is apparent that they were missing out on information in the spoken environment. I feel like quitting deaf ed cuz it is just made me sick what my friend just told me. She is still going continue to apply at the signing programs cuz she feels sick daily when the other teachers push the deaf/hoh kids to use their voice and to put their hands down when they tried to sign. What the hell??????

Hey Shel, I just read your comment about your friend. Is she willing to relocate. I know of several teacher positions open in TC classes about 90 minutes north of San Diego. Pay is pretty good.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's not it, It just you don't have any original statement of your own to argue with my point of view, instead you had to replace "hearing" to "deaf" and Yes, that's pathetic.



And you never use any insult remarks to anyone? You're not as innocent as anyone in here.



I said IF You think that hearing is the only option to have a quality life then You're an idiot. Read very carefully of the word "If"



That's the same applies to you as well.



I was only telling them to get involved in sign language that can be useful in a variety of ways and I've said that more than once in many different CI threads. I've also have seen many hearing parents who won't take up the time to spare in learning signs for their child. If a child can learn to speak for them, how about going half way with them by learning signs. That's only fair don't you think?

Yes I know... *sigh*

 

[jillio]

I really do not see how I am keeping my kids isolated. They do go to a high school that there is only 1 other deaf student there but they have a very big group of deaf friends that they see outside of school.

Jillo I remember a comment you made about how my son needs to have older deaf people for social reasons. He does, my daughter has male friends that range from 2 to 5 years older then my son. Some of these friends are oral, some a combination of both and some only sign. My daughter has several teacher friends of mine that she gets along well with that range from HH to deaf. After you wrote that comment I thought about it and I agree it is important that they have deaf people in their lives that accept them for who they are. But thank you for bringing this to my attention I never thought about it before.

You are welcome, jackie. I am only trying to point out that when a parent gets too involved in whether a child can hear and speak, they often are blinded to issues that are having more impact on their child than deafness does.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't have to hear on my job and it's not even a requirement. There are some jobs that require hearing when working with telephones or customer service, but there are other jobs based on skills that you have and experiences.

I can communicate just fine with people at my job. Sure I can talk to people far away in distance with sign language.

Exactly, I work in the office. If I want to communicate with my co-workers over work issues then do emails, fax or walk to their offices... Why telephone? :roll:

 

[shel90]

Please don't quit shel. Deaf kids need you.

I understand exactly what you are saying. As long as that child is not signing and making it obvious that they are deaf, it is okay to deny them information! The goal is to make them appear to be less deaf, not to educate them. :rl:

I know!!! It is sooo fucked up. I will still work at my school as long as it remains open. If it closes cuz of parents preferring oral only deaf ed, that's it for teaching for me cuz I refuse to teach oral deaf ed. It would go against my principles. That may not happen but I would rather be prepared both mentally and emotionally if I should have to find a different kind of job.

I told my friend to sign to them on the sly but she said the other teacher in the room is an oral fanantic and would report her. That is just sick sick sick sick!

 

[jackiesolorzano]

It is not just his langage that suffered delays in those first years How about all of his other developmental needs? Has he been able to complete the developmental tasks that are considered to be age appropriate as outlined by Erikson, Vygotsky, and Piaget?

While developing oral language with my children has always been important, I do understand about all the areas that my children needed to developed. I always made sure that I was meeting all of children's areas of need. In my own classroom I also make sure that I work on areas of development not just speak development. Just in case you were wondering my BS is in child development. I did enjoy Erikson and Piagnet by my favorite was Vygotsky zone of proximal development, I always made sure I was right in that area with my children and students. You know the other guy I really like is Garnder with his areas of intellidence. This has been very helpful with my own children. If done properly language development can be incorporated into almost any area.