headaches and migraines?

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As what, a janitor? And that didn't help you in a least bit, huh? You didn't even knew what "pathophysiology" is, and you still can not support your claims with a single link ! :laugh2:

Fuzzy


Yes, fuzzy, we know.....you know everything! How very intelligent you are. You are smarter than all of the doctors, because you know everything there is to know.

You really are pitiful. It truly is a shame when someone doesn't realize how little they do know. That is when they become uneducable. But that is quite evident int he fact that I have addressed numerous questions to you regarding your claims, and you have yet to adequately answer a single one of them. You are a parrot, Fuzzy. Constantly repeating something you have read or heard but absolutley no understanding of what you are saying. Get backto me when you are able to actually become engaged in an intelligent discussion. As it stands at this point in time, you are quite unable to do that. You have to abe able to asnwer questions in order to become engaged in discussion, and your inability to do so demonstrates a total lack of understanding on your part. Now I know why you have such trouble finding information from credible sources, and why the library seems to be a foreign place for you. You simply must have someone spoon feed you something you can repeat back, instead of locating information, reading it, sythesizing it, and using it in a critical manner.
 
Good question, Vallee.

I have migraines. And I have headaches with too much lipreading and trying to understand speech. But I don't know if these headaches (lipreading and speech) are migraines. Sometimes I think the headache starts as regular headache and then becomes migraine.......a headache as trigger for migraine I guess.

I researched migraine and CI but don't find great answers (some better, some worse). If I find more I will post.

That is true that migraneurs may have other types of headaches as well, for instance tension headache.
Trying to lipread and understand speech would fall into "exertion" trigger category, and is quite stressful, too. Probably a "visual" trigger as well because we are often exposed to a lot of light trying to talk to pple. That is at least three diffreent triggers at once. That is a strong trigger combined.

And you are also right that sometimes migraine starts with "regular" headache and it acts as trigger too. Sometimes migraine starts with sore neck, back, tense muscles and feeling of pressure in your head.

Some research suggest that migraine and tension headaches have the same origins in the brain. So that too would suggest it's all migraine even if the pain and other symptoms seem to be different.

Many experts now speculate that migraine and tension headache have the same origin in the brain.
The Causes of Headaches



Fuzzy
 
Yes, fuzzy, we know.....you know everything! How very intelligent you are. You are smarter than all of the doctors, because you know everything there is to know.

You really are pitiful. It truly is a shame when someone doesn't realize how little they do know. That is when they become uneducable. But that is quite evident int he fact that I have addressed numerous questions to you regarding your claims, and you have yet to adequately answer a single one of them. (hahahahaha where are YOUR LINKS. huh?) You are a parrot, Fuzzy. Constantly repeating something you have read or heard but absolutley no understanding of what you are saying. Get backto me when you are able to actually become engaged in an intelligent discussion. As it stands at this point in time, you are quite unable to do that. You have to abe able to asnwer questions in order to become engaged in discussion, and your inability to do so demonstrates a total lack of understanding on your part. Now I know why you have such trouble finding information from credible sources, and why the library seems to be a foreign place for you. You simply must have someone spoon feed you something you can repeat back, instead of locating information, reading it, sythesizing it, and using it in a critical manner.


We can not support our claims, can we jilly, we were proved making serious mistakes huh jill, showed elmental lack of subject knowledge so we rersort to berating others, huh? how typical jillio.

Fuzzy
 
The graph is showing just a general pattern of migraine and how it is related to age. while of course not every single migraine follows that pattern, the majority does. migraine tends to increase in intensity and quantity between the ages of 20-50, with the peak happening at 30-50, or more exactly according to this graph - 35- 45 y.o.
the men's line is included in this graph -it's the dotted line. the peak is very similar.

and every neurologist will tell you that.

Vallee would fit into that pattern since she stated her migraines appeared when she was about 20 y.o.
The question I would like to ask, was the hearing loss somehow related to her starting migraines, or was it a coincidence.



My neurologist seems to think my migraines started because I took a big drop from moderate to profound servere in my hearing loss. I started to wear new hearing aids.

At first my migraines were labeled as allergies. It took years to get a doctor to find out that yes it is really migraines.

My neurologist, who I trust, is in a wheelchair because he has a tumor in his back. He has limited motion and hand ability. He listens and understands. He admits that he does not know all the answers. I have been seeing him for over 3 years and before surgery I was down to about 2 migraines a month. But I was on so much medicines that you could see it in my face.

Migraines do not follow a set pattern. everyone is different. That is why a doctor someone specializating in migraines needs to set up medicine and testing. I have had CT, MRI, and other test. I had bloodwork and facial nerve testing(my face goes numb on left side with a migraine). I was taken off all over the counter medicine so I did not get rebound headaches. I have tried at least 6 different type of medicine to find what works. I found a good combination, but that does not work on all people.

The purpose of this thread was to see if others who are d/hoh have migraines and if they relate to a hearing loss. I would love to find some research that is current about us. I was hoping that someone knew of something.

All I know is my migraines are gone. Gone! Do I think they would be if I only implanted one ear - No. Do I think the migraines would be around if I did not get CI - yes. Do I think the surgery and less stress and facial nerve monitor enabled the migraines to disappear - Hell yes!

Vallee, if you have been to my thread about perfumes you too might have noticed how an extraordinairy number of deaf posters stated they have migraines. Or at least, headaches. And I know quite a few migraineurs who seemd to lost their hearing due to migraine. I find this fascinating because all my life I have a feeling my migraines are somehow related to hearing, too. one way or the other.


here is something about headache ( doesn't say migraine) and hearing loss.

Fluctuating hearing loss, episodic headache, and stroke with platelet hyperaggregability: Coexistence of auditory neuropathy and cochlear hearing loss

In this patient, hearing impairment and white matter strokes appeared to respectively related to impaired blood flow to the cochlea and white matter caused by platelet dysfunction triggered by physiologic stresses.

A white matter lesions are quite common to migraneurs (particularly with aura), and are thought to be casued by temporary lack of blood flow to the area, due to the blood vessel's constriction.

ScienceDirect - Brain and Development : Fluctuating hearing loss, episodic headache, and stroke with platelet hyperaggregability: Coexistence of auditory neuropathy and cochlear hearing loss

More links about migraine and hearing loss:

What Are the Auditory and Vestibular Symptoms?

Although less common than other audiovestibular symptoms, hearing loss does sometimes occur as a fluctuating, sensorineural loss in the low frequencies. It is also possible to have a
permanent hearing loss or vestibular dysfunction following a migraine attack.


Unraveling the Mystery of Migraine
http://www.menieres.org/jacki/jackis68.htm
Arch Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg -- Abstract: Migraine and sudden sensorineural hearing loss, March 1987, Lipkin et al. 113 (3): 325

I am well aware how difficult migraine can be to diagnose, particularly the less common types, and am not suprised you were previously misdiagnosed as "allergies". Some pple took years to be properly diagnosed as migraine.
I know of two cases that patients were at first wrongly diagnosed and treated as MS (mutliple sclerosis).

Most common mistakes made while diagnosing migraine apart from allergies is as "sinuses", "TMJ-trigeminal neuralgia".
"Tension" headache is misdiagnosed because half of people who have migraine will also have neck pain or tightness in the back of their head during or at the onset of their migraine.

It is possible that we - you and me, for instance- may have two genetic conditions. Although I think it's the two separate conditons, comorbid.
Comorbid:
comorbid
2 entries found.

comorbidcomorbid[1]



Main Entry: co·mor·bid
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)kō-ˈmȯr-bəd\
Function: adjective
Etymology: co- + morbid
Date: 1981
: existing simultaneously with and usually independently of another medical condition
— co·mor·bid·i·ty \-ˌmȯr-ˈbi-də-tē\ noun
Definition of comorbid - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry: comorbid
Part of Speech: adj
Definition: pertaining to two diseases which occur together, such as ADHD and depression
comorbid - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Fuzzy
Michigan Headache Clinic

Oh and one more thing. Just because your onset of migraine happened at 20 y.o. doesn't mean you didn't had any before. You coudl have them, and not know it. As I wrote earlier, migraine can be acephalgic (no headaches), and in children it's most often manifested as abdominal migraine (again, no headache present). Sometimes it's a trigger that sets off migraine at certain age and in your case it could have been sudden hearing loss. I am not challening your dr's opinion of course, just saying there can be more possibilities.


ps.
(my face goes numb on left side with a migraine).

That is not uncommon. Did your dr told you what type of migraine you have? could it be mild form of hemiplegic migraine?
What Is Hemiplegic Migraine?

Fuzzy
 
I was born profoundly deaf in both ears and immersed in an oral only environment up until I was 28 years old. I didnt have any migraines as a child but in my early 20s, I started getting them maybe once or twice a year. However, my hearing mom and my hearing brother both suffered from them on a monthly basis since they were children so I dont know if it is related to deafness in all cases or I would be getting frequent bouts of migraines. My deaf brother who is 31 has never experienced a migraine. :dunno:

Since your mom and your brother and you have them it shows definite genetic link so most likely you all have migraine gene, you inherited them (you and your siblings clearly from your mother. wonder from whom Mom inherited?).
Once again, as I've said you may not know you had migraine as a child because the symptoms could have been different, headache not present at all, and anyway it's possible for migraine to have its first onset later in life, Since you too, had your "first" one in your late 20ties it supports the general graph I posted. btw I had migraines since early childhood but it wasn't until I was 25 when they exploded really bad.

Anyhoo based on what you wrote - there is one deaf brother who doesn't have migraine and your mother is hearing, I would guess it's a separate condition (from hearing loss).

Fuzzy
 
yes you told me so because obviously you can not support your own claims about lesions causing migraine. it's your usual "wiggling out" tactic you use whenever you can not back up your claims, period. you can fool others but you are not fooling ME.
also,
Show me links supporting your claim that drinking water helps to dilate blood vessels in the brain.

Dumb ass, drinking water increases blood volume and facilitates circulation, and blood volume dilates blood vessels. And just as I suspected, you are parroting. Cut and paste, cut and paste. You are incapable of explaining the concept using your own words and knowledge. Therefore, you know nothing. You rely on hwat someone else knows.


but first you said:
The reason that drinking water helps with migraine is because the blood vessels in the brain constrict, and increased water helps to dilate them.

So, you realised what a blooper you shot, and now you try trying to cover your tracks :giggle:

You have completely lost your mind. I've already clarified that.

And THIS :ugh3::



??????????? that is quite a gimmick you wrote here. care to elaborate?



you are clearly saying here water intake relieves constriction = causes dilatation of the blood vessels.
what kind of headache OTHER than migraine is caused by first constricting then dilating blood vessels?

Vascular headache, tension headache, and headache associated with dehydration. Can't you read?
and in case you forgot it again it's dilatation that causes a head pain.

And in case you are incapable of even reading the cut and paste you have done, dilation and constriction can be the cause of head pain. If dilation is the cause of the pain,. constriction is necessary to relieve it and vice versa.

estrogen, progeston, and testosterone are the only human hormones???
what about hippocampus - doesn't it produce a growth hormone? and what is insulin? - is it produced by reproductive organ? hwo about - adrenaline?

Growth hormone has absolutely nothing to do with hormonally induced migraine. You really are misinformed.serotonin is not a hormone? but what is hormone, exactly?

No because serotonin is a neurotransmitter. How many times do I have to say it?
A hormone (from Greek όρμή - "to set in motion") is a chemical messenger that carries a signal from one cell (or group of cells) to another via the blood.

The best-known animal hormones are those produced by endocrine glands of vertebrate animals, but hormones are produced by nearly every organ system and tissue type in a multicellular organism.
(aren't we multicellular organisms?)

That doesn't make serotonin a hormone.The master coordinator of hormonal activity in mammals is the hypothalamus acting on input it receives from the central nervous system.
hypothalamus... wait a minute... isn't that in the brain?

Exactly where in the brain is the hypothalmus located, Fuzzy, and exactly what role does it play in the regualtion. Is it part of the central nervous system, or the periphereal nervous system? Is it a cognitive action that creates the reaction?
Hypothalamus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The hypothalamus links the nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary gland (hypophysis). The hypothalamus, (from Greek ὑποθαλαμος = under the thalamus) is located below the thalamus, just above the brain stem. This gland occupies the major portion of the ventral region of the diencephalon. It is found in all mammalian brains. In humans, it is roughly the size of an almond.

Important human hormones
amine - tryptophan Serotonin 5-HT CNS, GI tract enterochromaffin cell

Hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hmmm..



hmmmm...


Fuzzy

Wiki is not a credible source. And you obviously have no understanding of the information that you just cut and pasted. The only thing you have shown is that you know how to use a few features on a computer, not that you have any comprehension of what you are posting. The fact that you have posted so many unrelated cuts is evidence enough that you haveno idea what youare talking about. If I thought there was any chance that you were even capable of understanding the concepts, I would take the time to explain. But it is quite obvious that you neither possess the capability to do so, nor the fluid intelligence require to synthesize the information you are parroting from various sources. You have yet to answer a question using your own words and knowledge, but simply parrot the words you find that others have used. And yet, you claim to know everything there is to know. You are absurd, Fuzzy. When you are able to explain how these systems interact, and define these terms using your own words without cutting and pasting from a source such as Wiki, you will have demonstrated that you have knowldge. To date, you have been unable to do so, which merely proves that you don't have the knowldege. You have used many biological terms that you cannot even define. Explain it to us in your own words, Fuzzy. Then you will have shown that you have the inteeligence to understand what you have posted. To date, all you have proven is that you don't know anything.
 
Since your mom and your brother and you have them it shows definite genetic link so most likely you all have migraine gene, you inherited them (you and your siblings clearly from your mother. wonder from whom Mom inherited?).
Once again, as I've said you may not know you had migraine as a child because the symptoms could have been different, headache not present at all, and anyway it's possible for migraine to have its first onset later in life, Since you too, had your "first" one in your late 20ties it supports the general graph I posted. btw I had migraines since early childhood but it wasn't until I was 25 when they exploded really bad.

Anyhoo based on what you wrote - there is one deaf brother who doesn't have migraine and your mother is hearing, I would guess it's a separate condition (from hearing loss).

Fuzzy

Your theories of genetics are as flawed as A.G. Bell's were. Tell me Fuzzy, is the genetic link created froma recessivbe trait or a dominant trait, and exactly how are the two transmitted differently? No cut and paste, please. Show us that you know what you are talking about. Especially since you know everything there is to know, and feel qualified to second guess a doctor's opinion.
 
We can not support our claims, can we jilly, we were proved making serious mistakes huh jill, showed elmental lack of subject knowledge so we rersort to berating others, huh? how typical jillio.

Fuzzy

I haven't made any mistakes, Fuzzy. Are you going to answeer the questions, or not. It's okay to admit that you were in error when you said you knew everything. Trust me, we've already figured that out.
 
Vallee, if you have been to my thread about perfumes you too might have noticed how an extraordinairy number of deaf posters stated they have migraines. Or at least, headaches. And I know quite a few migraineurs who seemd to lost their hearing due to migraine. I find this fascinating because all my life I have a feeling my migraines are somehow related to hearing, too. one way or the other.


here is something about headache ( doesn't say migraine) and hearing loss.

Fluctuating hearing loss, episodic headache, and stroke with platelet hyperaggregability: Coexistence of auditory neuropathy and cochlear hearing loss

In this patient, hearing impairment and white matter strokes appeared to respectively related to impaired blood flow to the cochlea and white matter caused by platelet dysfunction triggered by physiologic stresses.

A white matter lesions are quite common to migraneurs (particularly with aura), and are thought to be casued by temporary lack of blood flow to the area, due to the blood vessel's constriction.

ScienceDirect - Brain and Development : Fluctuating hearing loss, episodic headache, and stroke with platelet hyperaggregability: Coexistence of auditory neuropathy and cochlear hearing loss

More links about migraine and hearing loss:

What Are the Auditory and Vestibular Symptoms?

Although less common than other audiovestibular symptoms, hearing loss does sometimes occur as a fluctuating, sensorineural loss in the low frequencies. It is also possible to have a
permanent hearing loss or vestibular dysfunction following a migraine attack.


Unraveling the Mystery of Migraine
http://www.menieres.org/jacki/jackis68.htm
Arch Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg -- Abstract: Migraine and sudden sensorineural hearing loss, March 1987, Lipkin et al. 113 (3): 325

I am well aware how difficult migraine can be to diagnose, particularly the less common types, and am not suprised you were previously misdiagnosed as "allergies". Some pple took years to be properly diagnosed as migraine.
I know of two cases that patients were at first wrongly diagnosed and treated as MS (mutliple sclerosis).

Most common mistakes made while diagnosing migraine apart from allergies is as "sinuses", "TMJ-trigeminal neuralgia".
"Tension" headache is misdiagnosed because half of people who have migraine will also have neck pain or tightness in the back of their head during or at the onset of their migraine.

It is possible that we - you and me, for instance- may have two genetic conditions. Although I think it's the two separate conditons, comorbid.
Comorbid:
comorbid
2 entries found.

comorbidcomorbid[1]



Main Entry: co·mor·bid
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)kō-ˈmȯr-bəd\
Function: adjective
Etymology: co- + morbid
Date: 1981
: existing simultaneously with and usually independently of another medical condition
— co·mor·bid·i·ty \-ˌmȯr-ˈbi-də-tē\ noun
Definition of comorbid - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English - Cite This Source - Share This Main Entry: comorbid
Part of Speech: adj
Definition: pertaining to two diseases which occur together, such as ADHD and depression
comorbid - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Fuzzy
Michigan Headache Clinic

Oh and one more thing. Just because your onset of migraine happened at 20 y.o. doesn't mean you didn't had any before. You coudl have them, and not know it. As I wrote earlier, migraine can be acephalgic (no headaches), and in children it's most often manifested as abdominal migraine (again, no headache present). Sometimes it's a trigger that sets off migraine at certain age and in your case it could have been sudden hearing loss. I am not challening your dr's opinion of course, just saying there can be more possibilities.


ps.


That is not uncommon. Did your dr told you what type of migraine you have? could it be mild form of hemiplegic migraine?
What Is Hemiplegic Migraine?

Fuzzy

You forget that headaches and migraines can cause by any numbers that triggers it. I don't believe that ages play a factors in that. I have seen young kids get headaches and migraines as well. So younger little people get them too. Genetic is always a "possibility" to some people pass down migraine but still don't know extact cause of half the time. As I was told by doctors that the brian is always a big mystery. Some headaches or migraines cause by perfumes, possiblity yes for some people, even stress cause it, even the smell of paints, or smell of bad gasoline, loud music, not enough sleep, or not eat all day, or other health issues that can be relate to it. It triggers many numbers of things how it happens. But there is some medications that can help some people that help get rid of serious migraine. Each person is always different.
 
You forget that headaches and migraines can cause by any numbers that triggers it. I don't believe that ages play a factors in that. I have seen young kids get headaches and migraines as well. So younger little people get them too. Genetic is always a "possibility" to some people pass down migraine but still don't know extact cause of half the time. As I was told by doctors that the brian is always a big mystery. Some headaches or migraines cause by perfumes, possiblity yes for some people, even stress cause it, even the smell of paints, or smell of bad gasoline, loud music, not enough sleep, or not eat all day, or other health issues that can be relate to it. It triggers many numbers of things how it happens. But there is some medications that can help some people that help get rid of serious migraine. Each person is always different.


I forget? lol.

And no it's not like that- migraines aren't caused by perfumes, or any smells, or loud music or stress - these are migraine TRIGGERS.
what exactly causes migraine, nobody knows. there is a few theories about migraine origin, though. If you are interested in that you can research the 'net.

And if you can read and think you should have known that I never said children can't have migraines - not only I wrote they can, (even a very young babies can have migraines) but I wrote they can have abdominal migraines which is rare in adults.
and since hormones play a great role in migraine the pattern changes with age in childhood, then at puberty - and it goes differently for boys and girls, and during menopause.
Also due to hormones (but not only) migraine tends to lessen with age, so yes age plays quite a big role. Any dr will tell you that.



Fuzzy
 
I haven't made any mistakes, Fuzzy. Are you going to answeer the questions, or not. It's okay to admit that you were in error when you said you knew everything. Trust me, we've already figured that out.

WHERE IS YOUR LINK SUPPORTING YOUR "LESION" THEORY?
WHERE IS YOUR LINK STATING WATER DILATES BLOOD VESSELS?

CAN'T FIND ANY?


Fuzzy
 
Wiki is not a credible source. And you obviously have no understanding of the information that you just cut and pasted. The only thing you have shown is that you know how to use a few features on a computer, not that you have any comprehension of what you are posting. The fact that you have posted so many unrelated cuts is evidence enough that you haveno idea what youare talking about. If I thought there was any chance that you were even capable of understanding the concepts, I would take the time to explain. But it is quite obvious that you neither possess the capability to do so, nor the fluid intelligence require to synthesize the information you are parroting from various sources. You have yet to answer a question using your own words and knowledge, but simply parrot the words you find that others have used. And yet, you claim to know everything there is to know. You are absurd, Fuzzy. When you are able to explain how these systems interact, and define these terms using your own words without cutting and pasting from a source such as Wiki, you will have demonstrated that you have knowldge. To date, you have been unable to do so, which merely proves that you don't have the knowldege. You have used many biological terms that you cannot even define. Explain it to us in your own words, Fuzzy. Then you will have shown that you have the inteeligence to understand what you have posted. To date, all you have proven is that you don't know anything.

lololol

at least now you know what PATHOPHYSIOLOGY is, huh?

lolol..

Fuzzy
 
Since your mom and your brother and you have them it shows definite genetic link so most likely you all have migraine gene, you inherited them (you and your siblings clearly from your mother. wonder from whom Mom inherited?).
Once again, as I've said you may not know you had migraine as a child because the symptoms could have been different, headache not present at all, and anyway it's possible for migraine to have its first onset later in life, Since you too, had your "first" one in your late 20ties it supports the general graph I posted. btw I had migraines since early childhood but it wasn't until I was 25 when they exploded really bad.

Anyhoo based on what you wrote - there is one deaf brother who doesn't have migraine and your mother is hearing, I would guess it's a separate condition (from hearing loss).

Fuzzy

My dr already told me that I probably never had migraines as a child and that it is normal for some female adults to start getting them in their teens due to hormonal changes and also said that there is no correlation between my hearing loss and migraines.
 
My dr already told me that I probably never had migraines as a child and that it is normal for some female adults to start getting them in their teens due to hormonal changes and also said that there is no correlation between my hearing loss and migraines.

I certainly don't recall reading any literature on migraines causing hearing loss. I've never experiened any hearing loss with my migraines. Just the opposite. When I get one of those headaches, I'm always amazed at how much I can hear without my hearing aid.

On the other hand, I have experienced temperoy vision loss when I get one of my auras and sometime they get so bad that I can't see anything because aura is blocking everything else. I don't always get the headaches with them either but I'm told they're migraine auras. I hate them because it makes me fear I'll go blind.
 
I certainly don't recall reading any literature on migraines causing hearing loss. I've never experiened any hearing loss with my migraines. Just the opposite. When I get one of those headaches, I'm always amazed at how much I can hear without my hearing aid.

On the other hand, I have experienced temperoy vision loss when I get one of my auras and sometime they get so bad that I can't see anything because aura is blocking everything else. I don't always get the headaches with them either but I'm told they're migraine auras. I hate them because it makes me fear I'll go blind.

Hypersensitivity to sound is very common with a migraine, especially inconjunction with aura.
 
lololol

at least now you know what PATHOPHYSIOLOGY is, huh?

lolol..

Fuzzy

Ah, but do you know what any of the words you have used mean, Fuzzy Parrot? You have still failed to answer the questions posed to you. Would that be because you cannot answer due to lack of comprehension?
 
Ah, but do you know what any of the words you have used mean, Fuzzy Parrot? You have still failed to answer the questions posed to you. Would that be because you cannot answer due to lack of comprehension?

lolol - NO YOU DID.

Fuzzy
 
My dr already told me that I probably never had migraines as a child and that it is normal for some female adults to start getting them in their teens due to hormonal changes and also said that there is no correlation between my hearing loss and migraines.

Exactly, and that's what the graph is about- it shows a general pattern of relation between age and migraine, it's not a DETAILED graph.

That is nice that your dr was able to determine that your migs are not correlated to your hearing loss.


I wonder - are you sure you never had any symtpoms that could indicate migraine in your childhood? like unexplained stomach problems, periods of feeling very tried, motion sickness etc.. just asking.

Fuzzy
 
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