Does anyone feed their small dog a vegetarian diet

Could a dog or cat grow old without having eaten any meat in its life? I confess I have no idea.
 
You could try it. I remember reading that it is possible to raise a dog on a vegetarian diet, but never a cat. Cats' systems absolutely demand the nutrients found in meat. Dogs, surprisingly, can do without meat, although most dogs like most meats and do well on a combination of meat, vegetables, and grains.
 
my strong belief, based on research, attendance at various nutritional seminars by holistic vets and discussions with my own holistic vets is that - vegetarian diets for dogs and particularly for cats are inappropriate for MEAT-eating pets. Dogs and cats are carnivores and have the biology of wolves and wild felines.
Cats in particular have a higher protein need than dogs do, which is why pet food industries and related have gotten away with using plant-based kibble for so many years and like to call dogs "omnivores" But they aren't.

Healthy adult dogs -can- survive without meat if needed but in order to thrive as a general rule <individuals aside> they need to have some form of animal-based protein. In the long run, dogs do not do well with soy substitute for protein.

Feeding a carnivorous pet -dog or cat- a plant-based diet based on one's personal/moral beliefs is unfair to the pet.

holistic vets generally do NOT recommend a veggie diet for cats and dogs. Even holistic vets who personally eat vegan - and I do know of one.


feeding cats kibble in particular, is a concern because of the very low moisture -water - in kibble. Cats naturally do not drink much water so when using kibble over the many years there is a concern with chronic dehydration in cats. More and more vets are recognizing that kibble is especially inappropriate for cats.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Cats must have taurine, too. If you feed a cat something other than commercial cat food, add taurine. I had a very old cat that ate pured fish with taurine when she couldn't eat anything else. Baby food us another option for a sick or very old cat (meat kind).
 
yes, that is right sally :ty: for reminding me about the taurine!
I have hearing how there is some new thought going on how dogs also have more of a need for taurine than was previously thought-
 
Whatdidyousay, can you define more what you mean about Marty being "a fussy eater?" How big is he?

Is he throwing up what he eats? Or just not eating much? Or not eating what you give him?

When we got Pippin from the rescue, he had been neglected and possibly abused. His weight was down to 8 lbs. when they got him; it was back up to nearly 10 lbs. when we got him. (He is about 12" tall at the shoulder, so he should have been around 12 lbs.)

By coincidence, my vet offered a "Dog nutrition" seminar shortly after we got him. I learned about the appropriate amounts to feed him, and I was startled at how little it was - about 1/4 c. of kibble mixed with a tablespoon of canned food, twice a day.

Pippin was the smallest dog I'd ever had, and I wasn't used to feeding such small amounts.

Guess what - he GAINED weight on those amounts, and then actually became a little overweight! He is a bit chunky now, at about 14 lbs., but has been stable at that weight for quite some time.

The vet is now telling me that we should give him only about a full *teaspoon* of the canned food in addition to the kibble, to bring his weight down gradually to the appropriate 12 lbs.

So my point is - if Marty is a small dog (which he is, right?) then what seems like a very small amount of food might be just fine for him.

If he really is not eating anything at all, then I would try small amounts of boiled chicken (or microwaved - I put chicken in a Corningware dish with a bit of water and cook it for a few minutes in the microwave when I'm making it for the dogs). Let cook, chop it up, then add a little bit of rice to it.

If he will eat that, then you can try chopping up carrots, green beans, or a bit of apple, and combine it with the chicken and rice.

Did the venison work for him? As I mentioned before, neither of my dogs liked venison at all. Casey threw it up and Pippin wouldn't even eat it. I don't know if that's a poodle thing or just particular to them, but venison definitely was not a success.
 
I wouldn't either, not for more than a couple days.

I notice this quote from the original article:

"The best ratios for a healthy food for small dog pet are about 40% meat, 50% veggies, and about 10% carbohydrate. Therefore, plan your feeding small pet dogs close to this ingredient ratio."

Later it says to avoid corn, to which many small dogs are allergic.

That ratio sounds about right to me.
 
Beach girl said:
Whatdidyousay, can you define more what you mean about Marty being "a fussy eater?" How big is he?

Is he throwing up what he eats? Or just not eating much? Or not eating what you give him?

When we got Pippin from the rescue, he had been neglected and possibly abused. His weight was down to 8 lbs. when they got him; it was back up to nearly 10 lbs. when we got him. (He is about 12" tall at the shoulder, so he should have been around 12 lbs.)

By coincidence, my vet offered a "Dog nutrition" seminar shortly after we got him. I learned about the appropriate amounts to feed him, and I was startled at how little it was - about 1/4 c. of kibble mixed with a tablespoon of canned food, twice a day.

Pippin was the smallest dog I'd ever had, and I wasn't used to feeding such small amounts.

Guess what - he GAINED weight on those amounts, and then actually became a little overweight! He is a bit chunky now, at about 14 lbs., but has been stable at that weight for quite some time.

The vet is now telling me that we should give him only about a full *teaspoon* of the canned food in addition to the kibble, to bring his weight down gradually to the appropriate 12 lbs.

So my point is - if Marty is a small dog (which he is, right?) then what seems like a very small amount of food might be just fine for him.

If he really is not eating anything at all, then I would try small amounts of boiled chicken (or microwaved - I put chicken in a Corningware dish with a bit of water and cook it for a few minutes in the microwave when I'm making it for the dogs). Let cook, chop it up, then add a little bit of rice to it.

If he will eat that, then you can try chopping up carrots, green beans, or a bit of apple, and combine it with the chicken and rice.

Did the venison work for him? As I mentioned before, neither of my dogs liked venison at all. Casey threw it up and Pippin wouldn't even eat it. I don't know if that's a poodle thing or just particular to them, but venison definitely was not a success.
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My daughter gave a bag dog food made from venison and Marty did not like it! He does eat the food I give him. I only buy my dogs good quality food . I tried dog food made from salmon and Marty did not eat it , I finally gave up buying him good dog food and got him cheapo Purina dried food with lamb and Marty picked out the part he like and leave the rest uneaten! I went to a co op and spoke to woman that know a lot about dog food and she told me buy a canned food that she was sure Marty would eat. Wrong!! I mixed it with dried food and he did not eat, so I tried giving him the canned food alone and Marty said YUCKY!! GRRR! My vet said small dogs are fussy but I did not know they would be this fussy! I have 20 lb bag of venison dog food and it can't be returned. I posted a link that said it was ok to feed a small dog only veggies. I had some friend that had St. Bernard and they feeding it only veggies and grains and story was printed in the newspaper about the dog. Some sicko felt bad for the dog begin a vegan and poisoned it!
 
Beach girl said:
I wouldn't either, not for more than a couple days.

I notice this quote from the original article:

"The best ratios for a healthy food for small dog pet are about 40% meat, 50% veggies, and about 10% carbohydrate. Therefore, plan your feeding small pet dogs close to this ingredient ratio."

Later it says to avoid corn, to which many small dogs are allergic.

That ratio sounds about right to me.
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I read that White westie terrier should not eat beef. I meet a woman that has one and she said her dog can't eat beef. She feed her White westie terrier
dry food made from venison.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Can't find info on dogs & taurine. Did find article that said it's breed specific like Newfoundland and Cockerspaniel. Anyone know how much shelter mixes need?
 
this is a link to an article detailing taurine written by holistic DVM Dr. Messonier from his book "Natural Health Bible for Dogs and Cats" Natural Health Bible for Dogs and Cats by Dr. Shawn Messonnier. He does write among other things how taurine is specifically needed for cats but not dogs <I had thought that was being revised but maybe I'm wrong> and discusses amounts of taurine needed for cats and dogs; he also discusses deficiencies in veggie diets for dogs and cats.
 
this is a link to an article by another Rottie person, Lew Olson, long-time owner/breeder/handler of Rotties and generally highly knowledgable in dogs, she mentions the possibility that the dog's need/use for taurine is possibly being re-thought:
Protein in the Diet by B Naturals
among other things she discusses protein/digestibility issues in feeding dogs-


and link to article by holistic vet Dr. Karen Becker on protein/fat requirements for dogs and cats and also discussing how dogs and cats do NOT have a need for carbohydrates: NATURAL PET ANIMAL HOSPITAL

if anyone takes a look at any of the links -:ty:
I know I put up quite a bit here....
 
sallylou said:
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Can't find info on dogs & taurine. Did find article that said it's breed specific like Newfoundland and Cockerspaniel. Anyone know how much shelter mixes need?
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Marty is terrier/poodle mix! And both breeds can be very fussy, put them together and you have a very fussy little doggie!
 
You can give that left-over bag of dog food to your local animal shelter. They would love you for it!!

I have had 3 poodles now and none of them have been particularly fussy eaters, at all.

Dog Food Reviews by Brand

You might find that site helpful. You can look up food by brand or by star-ratings.

Note that "Purina Pro Plan Selects" is considered a 4-star canned food, and it's available at the grocery store, usually. Both my guys like it, for what that's worth.
 
sallylou said:
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Can't find info on dogs & taurine. Did find article that said it's breed specific like Newfoundland and Cockerspaniel. Anyone know how much shelter mixes need?
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They need some. Just not as much as cats. Even humans need taurine as well.

But the level required for dogs and humans is so low, it's not even worth noting.

And I would pick up a book from the NRC. THere's a free one from the '80s which is fairly decent. The recent edition is about $270 and it accounts for breed differences. (ie. a 100lbs dog doesn't need ten times the amount of food a 10lbs dog does)

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10668
 
based on the links I found and what I originally thought I'd read, the degree of taurine originally thought for dogs may be revised- <may be higher>
 
Beach girl said:
You can give that left-over bag of dog food to your local animal shelter. They would love you for it!!

I have had 3 poodles now and none of them have been particularly fussy eaters, at all.

Dog Food Reviews by Brand

You might find that site helpful. You can look up food by brand or by star-ratings.

Note that "Purina Pro Plan Selects" is considered a 4-star canned food, and it's available at the grocery store, usually. Both my guys like it, for what that's worth.
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No, I can't give the food to an animal shelter as the bag been opened. I tried to do that with some food that Finlay did not like. If a bag of dried dog food ripped in the grocery store the store can donate it to a shelter. I thought Finlay was getting fussy but he had cancer and was having trouble eating. :(
I do like using canned food. I have ants really bad in the summer and if I tried 3 brands of canned food and end throwing most of it out!! Now I just leave Marty's food on the floor and let pick at it.
I know you should not leave the food out more then 15 minutes, but I am not about to fool around with Marty's food trying to decide when he hungry. I always left my dog dried food on the floor and they never got too fat. They knew the food would be there when they where hungry and just ate what they needed.
 
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