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Defiant Jacksonville retiree charged with practicing law without license
Katie Vickers says she was helping a sick friend when she typed some documents for his court case and signed her name at the bottom.
The Jacksonville retiree claims she wasn’t trying to act as an attorney.
Now she really is — defending herself against charges of practicing law without a license.
The Florida Bar has brought 20 charges against Vickers, accusing her of portraying herself as an attorney by helping a friend from church type motions and request hearings in his worker’s compensation case. He didn’t have a computer or a lawyer.
“I’m not breaking the law,” Vickers said. “It’s a stretch.”
But the Bar believes she went beyond just typing, assisting her friend the way a lawyer would. They asked her to sign a cease-and-desist order and promise not to do it again, but Vickers refused.
“I felt like that would be admitting I did something wrong,” she said.
Why is the Bar pursuing costly sanctions again a 70-year-old woman?
“To protect the public,” said Bar counsel Lori Holcomb. “Our committee that investigated it felt that she would continue, and perhaps do this for someone else.”
Vickers is familiar with the courtroom, since she worked for many years in a state office that attempted to collect child support payments.
But she’s never worked in the legal profession or aspired to. She spends most of her time now at church or with her husband at their home in a tidy Mandarin subdivision.
The subject of the worker’s comp case, Artemias Rivers , is a member of her church, and Vickers wanted to help. He was sick, suffering from lung problems he believed were developed on the job and had recently underwent surgery that caused more pain. Rivers said he knew she wasn’t a lawyer, and she didn’t give him legal advice or ask him for any money. He suffers from pulmonary fibrosis, interstitial lung disease and sarcoidosis and is considered disabled. He’s currently at home, living on disability checks and dealing with the pain.
“It’s outrageous the Bar would come after her when I had four or five attorneys who didn’t do their job,” Rivers said of the lawyers who dropped his case. “I’m not saying Mrs. Vickers was acting as my attorney, but why don’t they go after those attorneys?”
Vickers signed the bottom of one document, “Katie Vickers for Artemias Rivers,” and in 2008 began going with him to court hearings held inside the judge’s chambers. She said she tried to help him answer questions he didn’t understand.
Soon, she was not allowed in the chamber, and neither was the court reporter. She was prevented from taking notes and said in her court filing early this month that she was escorted out of the courtroom in handcuffs.
Cary Braswell, the lawyer representing JA-RU, the Jacksonville branch of a toy company that employed Rivers, filed a formal request that she stop helping Rivers with his case. Braswell could not be reached for comment.
The judge granted their request, and Vickers stopped going to the courthouse. Rivers lost the case. They both thought it was over.
But Braswell had also filed a complaint with the Bar.
That’s when the Bar sent the cease-and-desist letter. A year later, Vickers was served with the charges that could bring up to $20,000 in fines.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I didn’t think I was going to hear any more from them.”
According to Holcomb, the Bar has brought lawsuits in 45 complaints for practicing law without a license so far this fiscal year. She said most of the cases are similar to Vickers’.
“If you think of the things that lawyers do, we investigate cases of non-lawyers doing the same thing,” Holcomb said. “As soon as you tell someone, 'I can represent you,’ or 'I can help you with your legal matter,’ and then you actually help them, that would be crossing the line.”
Vickers likely crossed some lines, said Stetson University of Law professor Lee Coppock , but he’s baffled as to why the Bar would bring charges.
Soon, she was not allowed in the chamber, and neither was the court reporter. She was prevented from taking notes and said in her court filing early this month that she was escorted out of the courtroom in handcuffs.
Cary Braswell, the lawyer representing JA-RU, the Jacksonville branch of a toy company that employed Rivers, filed a formal request that she stop helping Rivers with his case. Braswell could not be reached for comment.
The judge granted their request, and Vickers stopped going to the courthouse. Rivers lost the case. They both thought it was over.
But Braswell had also filed a complaint with the Bar.
That’s when the Bar sent the cease-and-desist letter. A year later, Vickers was served with the charges that could bring up to $20,000 in fines.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I didn’t think I was going to hear any more from them.”
According to Holcomb, the Bar has brought lawsuits in 45 complaints for practicing law without a license so far this fiscal year. She said most of the cases are similar to Vickers’.
“If you think of the things that lawyers do, we investigate cases of non-lawyers doing the same thing,” Holcomb said. “As soon as you tell someone, 'I can represent you,’ or 'I can help you with your legal matter,’ and then you actually help them, that would be crossing the line.”
Vickers likely crossed some lines, said Stetson University of Law professor Lee Coppock , but he’s baffled as to why the Bar would bring charges.
He teaches professional responsibility courses that focus on this issue, mainly to ensure that law students don’t try to help friends and loved ones before they’re qualified to do so.
“It’s a fairly obscure line,” Coppock said. “I would be shocked if they didn’t have some basis to believe she did cross that line, but why go after this if she isn’t likely to do that again? ... This lady doesn’t sound like a threat to anybody, unless she gave someone bad advice.”
The Florida Bar has brought cases like this before, one of which drew national attention. In 1976, the Bar sued Rosemary Furman of Jacksonville for selling do-it-yourself divorce kits and helping clients fill out legal forms for a small fee.
Furman was eventually ordered to shutter her business, but she became renowned as an advocate for improving access to justice.
Vickers is hesitant to hire an attorney for herself, afraid costs will skyrocket if the case drags on. For now, she’s researching — solidifying her defense, documenting everything she can and hoping for the best.
She has asked for a court date to defend herself against the charges, which she intends to take to trial.
“I think what they’re doing is a vendetta against me to make sure I shut my mouth and never help anybody again,” Vickers said. “If someone needed help and asked me to type something for them, I probably would type it. There’s no law against it, I don’t think.”
Defiant Jacksonville retiree charged with practicing law without license | jacksonville.com
Katie Vickers says she was helping a sick friend when she typed some documents for his court case and signed her name at the bottom.
The Jacksonville retiree claims she wasn’t trying to act as an attorney.
Now she really is — defending herself against charges of practicing law without a license.
The Florida Bar has brought 20 charges against Vickers, accusing her of portraying herself as an attorney by helping a friend from church type motions and request hearings in his worker’s compensation case. He didn’t have a computer or a lawyer.
“I’m not breaking the law,” Vickers said. “It’s a stretch.”
But the Bar believes she went beyond just typing, assisting her friend the way a lawyer would. They asked her to sign a cease-and-desist order and promise not to do it again, but Vickers refused.
“I felt like that would be admitting I did something wrong,” she said.
Why is the Bar pursuing costly sanctions again a 70-year-old woman?
“To protect the public,” said Bar counsel Lori Holcomb. “Our committee that investigated it felt that she would continue, and perhaps do this for someone else.”
Vickers is familiar with the courtroom, since she worked for many years in a state office that attempted to collect child support payments.
But she’s never worked in the legal profession or aspired to. She spends most of her time now at church or with her husband at their home in a tidy Mandarin subdivision.
The subject of the worker’s comp case, Artemias Rivers , is a member of her church, and Vickers wanted to help. He was sick, suffering from lung problems he believed were developed on the job and had recently underwent surgery that caused more pain. Rivers said he knew she wasn’t a lawyer, and she didn’t give him legal advice or ask him for any money. He suffers from pulmonary fibrosis, interstitial lung disease and sarcoidosis and is considered disabled. He’s currently at home, living on disability checks and dealing with the pain.
“It’s outrageous the Bar would come after her when I had four or five attorneys who didn’t do their job,” Rivers said of the lawyers who dropped his case. “I’m not saying Mrs. Vickers was acting as my attorney, but why don’t they go after those attorneys?”
Vickers signed the bottom of one document, “Katie Vickers for Artemias Rivers,” and in 2008 began going with him to court hearings held inside the judge’s chambers. She said she tried to help him answer questions he didn’t understand.
Soon, she was not allowed in the chamber, and neither was the court reporter. She was prevented from taking notes and said in her court filing early this month that she was escorted out of the courtroom in handcuffs.
Cary Braswell, the lawyer representing JA-RU, the Jacksonville branch of a toy company that employed Rivers, filed a formal request that she stop helping Rivers with his case. Braswell could not be reached for comment.
The judge granted their request, and Vickers stopped going to the courthouse. Rivers lost the case. They both thought it was over.
But Braswell had also filed a complaint with the Bar.
That’s when the Bar sent the cease-and-desist letter. A year later, Vickers was served with the charges that could bring up to $20,000 in fines.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I didn’t think I was going to hear any more from them.”
According to Holcomb, the Bar has brought lawsuits in 45 complaints for practicing law without a license so far this fiscal year. She said most of the cases are similar to Vickers’.
“If you think of the things that lawyers do, we investigate cases of non-lawyers doing the same thing,” Holcomb said. “As soon as you tell someone, 'I can represent you,’ or 'I can help you with your legal matter,’ and then you actually help them, that would be crossing the line.”
Vickers likely crossed some lines, said Stetson University of Law professor Lee Coppock , but he’s baffled as to why the Bar would bring charges.
Soon, she was not allowed in the chamber, and neither was the court reporter. She was prevented from taking notes and said in her court filing early this month that she was escorted out of the courtroom in handcuffs.
Cary Braswell, the lawyer representing JA-RU, the Jacksonville branch of a toy company that employed Rivers, filed a formal request that she stop helping Rivers with his case. Braswell could not be reached for comment.
The judge granted their request, and Vickers stopped going to the courthouse. Rivers lost the case. They both thought it was over.
But Braswell had also filed a complaint with the Bar.
That’s when the Bar sent the cease-and-desist letter. A year later, Vickers was served with the charges that could bring up to $20,000 in fines.
“I was shocked,” she said. “I didn’t think I was going to hear any more from them.”
According to Holcomb, the Bar has brought lawsuits in 45 complaints for practicing law without a license so far this fiscal year. She said most of the cases are similar to Vickers’.
“If you think of the things that lawyers do, we investigate cases of non-lawyers doing the same thing,” Holcomb said. “As soon as you tell someone, 'I can represent you,’ or 'I can help you with your legal matter,’ and then you actually help them, that would be crossing the line.”
Vickers likely crossed some lines, said Stetson University of Law professor Lee Coppock , but he’s baffled as to why the Bar would bring charges.
He teaches professional responsibility courses that focus on this issue, mainly to ensure that law students don’t try to help friends and loved ones before they’re qualified to do so.
“It’s a fairly obscure line,” Coppock said. “I would be shocked if they didn’t have some basis to believe she did cross that line, but why go after this if she isn’t likely to do that again? ... This lady doesn’t sound like a threat to anybody, unless she gave someone bad advice.”
The Florida Bar has brought cases like this before, one of which drew national attention. In 1976, the Bar sued Rosemary Furman of Jacksonville for selling do-it-yourself divorce kits and helping clients fill out legal forms for a small fee.
Furman was eventually ordered to shutter her business, but she became renowned as an advocate for improving access to justice.
Vickers is hesitant to hire an attorney for herself, afraid costs will skyrocket if the case drags on. For now, she’s researching — solidifying her defense, documenting everything she can and hoping for the best.
She has asked for a court date to defend herself against the charges, which she intends to take to trial.
“I think what they’re doing is a vendetta against me to make sure I shut my mouth and never help anybody again,” Vickers said. “If someone needed help and asked me to type something for them, I probably would type it. There’s no law against it, I don’t think.”
Defiant Jacksonville retiree charged with practicing law without license | jacksonville.com