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Fernandina Beach, FL, News-Leader newspaper. The local news source for Amelia Island and Fernandina Beach, FL
What if you were taking part in an important court proceeding and couldn't hear or understand the judge, attorneys or anyone, for that matter, in the courtroom? And what if none of them could understand you? Would justice be served?
Heriberto Quinones, 43, of Hilliard, a deaf man who was involved in a family law hearing at the Nassau County Courthouse in July 2008, lived this nightmarish scenario. Though Quinones - a former president of the River City Association for the Deaf and an advocate for deaf people - knew the proper procedure to secure a qualified sign language interpreter for the proceedings, his day in court was rife with confusion.
At issue, according to Quinones, who spoke through Debbie Spiker, a nationally certified interpreter, were the qualifications and ability of the interpreter appointed by the court. Quinones said when he arrived at the proceedings, the interpreter never approached him, despite the fact that she likely saw him signing. He said once he finally realized who she was, it became apparent she was unable to accurately and completely convey vital information.
"She should have started interpreting automatically when she saw me signing," Quinones said. "She started speaking and she would just interpret a little bit and I'm like, she isn't even qualified to do legal proceedings, this is something very important. ... So we went before the judge and he was talking about change of address, the child support and the interpreter missed most of it, or signed it completely wrong. And I'm like, 'What are they saying? Come on, come on, tell me what they're saying.' The signing was very awkward. For example, the judge would question me about how my children are and the interpreter would sign back, 'Your son, um old?'"
Quinones said his frustration rose as he was forced to rely on his ex-wife, who is not deaf but knows sign language, for interpretation of questions from the judge. He said he began to break into a sweat as his confusion mounted.
"The judge never said anything," Quinones said. "He just sat there and stared at us. ... He started questioning my ex-wife about my job, about my earnings and I was having to look back and forth as he was carrying on the conversation with my ex-wife - it was infuriating. My ex-wife was trying to take care of things for me and the interpreter was frozen. Literally, she didn't know what to do. The signs she did were homemade signs, not the way an interpreter would work. And I just felt like, 'You know what, when this is over, I'm going to file a grievance.'"
That's where Sharon Caserta came in. Caserta is an attorney representing the Deaf/Hard of Hearing Legal Advocacy Program, part of Jacksonville Area Legal Aid, who filed an internal grievance directed at the Nassau County Courthouse on behalf of Quinones. The grievance alleges specific failures by the court to follow protocol outlined in the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 within the context of Quinones' hearing, but Caserta said its scope reaches far wider.
"We filed the grievance because nobody knows about these issues," Caserta said. "They never think about deaf people going to court and not being able to participate. Mr. Quinones is a taxpaying citizen and couldn't access his proceedings."
Fourth Judicial Circuit Court Counsel Caroline Emery promptly responded to the grievance.
"They pretty much responded by denying the discrimination, but agreed to make a number of changes to improve or to continue to monitor the system," Caserta said. In the meantime, on July 21, 2008, a judge entered an order declaring the July 8 family law hearing null and void and Quinones was granted a new hearing with a new interpreter.
"I was satisfied with that because I had a qualified interpreter," Quinones said. "And afterwards the judge started asking questions to the interpreter like, 'Where is your experience?' It really made me feel pretty good. This judge asked more questions than the first and it seemed like they were able to find out more in-depth how interpreters are used and how they're qualified."
Caserta said the lack of qualified sign language interpreters in the state court system is an ongoing problem, and despite efforts by courts to remedy the problem, deaf people are still going to court without interpreters.
"Unfortunately in the state of Florida, there is no state law that requires what is called national certification," Caserta said. "In Florida, someone just needs to be deemed qualified, and that's a very vague term. There are people within the court system interpreting that don't have the qualifications to be there and we don't have a state law to back that up. We also don't have a licensing law ... in some jurisdictions, the courts are doing a great job, in others there's room for improvements."
Quinones said if other court officials are held to a high standard, so should the interpreters.
"The attorney has a degree, he has some sort of certificate," Quinones said. "The police that work there have to have some sort of a license, even the court reporter would have to be certified. All these people in the court system are held to high standards, why would an interpreter not have to receive the same level of credentials?"
Though Quinones' situation was resolved quickly, Caserta said there are dangers, especially in criminal cases, caused by Florida's lack of licensing and the fact that the burden is put on the deaf person to arrange for an interpreter.
"The system in place is that a deaf person needs to call and request an interpreter," Caserta said. "Sometimes that doesn't happen. Specifically, one of the worst examples is when deaf people are arrested for criminal charges and they're held at a detention facility and law enforcement is the only one that knows the deaf person is going to show up in court the next day. So law enforcement is the only one that can call the court and say, 'Mr. Jones is going to be there in the morning and he's going to need an interpreter.' So deaf people don't have the ability to even place a call for an interpreter because they're in detention - it's a very common problem we see."
Caserta said approximately 30 states have passed some form of licensing requirement, but a bill in Florida that would do the same has been stalled for five years. She said there's been a partnership between the Association for the Deaf, the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf and others that have tried to pass this legislation ensuring quality, licensed interpreters for things like court proceedings or doctor visits.
"One of the forces, unfortunately, behind trying to credential interpreters in courts, believe it or not, is actually the Florida Medical Association. They don't want to see interpreters get certified or require certification in any way because they're concerned it might spill over into the medical arena. They've been the main group that's been stopping the passage of the licensure bill for interpreters in Florida for the past four years and they're well funded."
But why would doctors want to block a bill that seemingly helps their patients?
"Right now for an interpreter, say in this area, there's usually a two-hour minimum, so it's going to run them around $100. And some doctors would say 'Medicaid only pays me $80 for the visit, so I don't want to pay the $100 for the interpreter.'"
Caserta also said there's a culture of misunderstanding among non-deaf people regarding the ability of those who are deaf to understand when a qualified interpreter is not present.
"A lot of people think all deaf people can lip read, and that's not true," Caserta said. "They think deaf people can somehow hear a little bit, or if you write back and forth it's good enough. But if a person was to see a Spanish speaking person, they wouldn't try to give them just a little bit - they'd realize, 'I can't speak Spanish, I can't speak to the person.' But with deaf people they go, 'Maybe they can lip read me or maybe if I scream at them, they'll hear me.' It's this constant form of pabulum."
But there are signs - literally - that the courts are sympathetic to the plight of the deaf and hearing impaired, if only here in Nassau County. Shortly after the grievance was filed, new signs with a picture of an ear with a line through it were hung inside the courthouse, alerting those who are deaf or hard of hearing that the facility is equipped with hearing assistance. That assistance comes largely by way of auxiliary aids that were already available in court, by request, but also includes 10 Court-Smart infrared hearing devices for those who are hard of hearing.
Quinones was pleased with the outcome, but both he and Caserta said there is a long way to go in terms of legislation and awareness.
"Most people don't do anything about it," Quinones said. "But I was not going to follow that course. I'm just like a hearing person, I just can't hear. I have a job, a house, a T-shirt business, I have all these things and I'm not going to keep that in. I'm going to do what I have to do, I'm going to see a lawyer, and I'm going to make sure I have an interpreter. I'm doing this not only for myself, but for other deaf people who aren't able to do it for themselves."
What if you were taking part in an important court proceeding and couldn't hear or understand the judge, attorneys or anyone, for that matter, in the courtroom? And what if none of them could understand you? Would justice be served?
Heriberto Quinones, 43, of Hilliard, a deaf man who was involved in a family law hearing at the Nassau County Courthouse in July 2008, lived this nightmarish scenario. Though Quinones - a former president of the River City Association for the Deaf and an advocate for deaf people - knew the proper procedure to secure a qualified sign language interpreter for the proceedings, his day in court was rife with confusion.
At issue, according to Quinones, who spoke through Debbie Spiker, a nationally certified interpreter, were the qualifications and ability of the interpreter appointed by the court. Quinones said when he arrived at the proceedings, the interpreter never approached him, despite the fact that she likely saw him signing. He said once he finally realized who she was, it became apparent she was unable to accurately and completely convey vital information.
"She should have started interpreting automatically when she saw me signing," Quinones said. "She started speaking and she would just interpret a little bit and I'm like, she isn't even qualified to do legal proceedings, this is something very important. ... So we went before the judge and he was talking about change of address, the child support and the interpreter missed most of it, or signed it completely wrong. And I'm like, 'What are they saying? Come on, come on, tell me what they're saying.' The signing was very awkward. For example, the judge would question me about how my children are and the interpreter would sign back, 'Your son, um old?'"
Quinones said his frustration rose as he was forced to rely on his ex-wife, who is not deaf but knows sign language, for interpretation of questions from the judge. He said he began to break into a sweat as his confusion mounted.
"The judge never said anything," Quinones said. "He just sat there and stared at us. ... He started questioning my ex-wife about my job, about my earnings and I was having to look back and forth as he was carrying on the conversation with my ex-wife - it was infuriating. My ex-wife was trying to take care of things for me and the interpreter was frozen. Literally, she didn't know what to do. The signs she did were homemade signs, not the way an interpreter would work. And I just felt like, 'You know what, when this is over, I'm going to file a grievance.'"
That's where Sharon Caserta came in. Caserta is an attorney representing the Deaf/Hard of Hearing Legal Advocacy Program, part of Jacksonville Area Legal Aid, who filed an internal grievance directed at the Nassau County Courthouse on behalf of Quinones. The grievance alleges specific failures by the court to follow protocol outlined in the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 within the context of Quinones' hearing, but Caserta said its scope reaches far wider.
"We filed the grievance because nobody knows about these issues," Caserta said. "They never think about deaf people going to court and not being able to participate. Mr. Quinones is a taxpaying citizen and couldn't access his proceedings."
Fourth Judicial Circuit Court Counsel Caroline Emery promptly responded to the grievance.
"They pretty much responded by denying the discrimination, but agreed to make a number of changes to improve or to continue to monitor the system," Caserta said. In the meantime, on July 21, 2008, a judge entered an order declaring the July 8 family law hearing null and void and Quinones was granted a new hearing with a new interpreter.
"I was satisfied with that because I had a qualified interpreter," Quinones said. "And afterwards the judge started asking questions to the interpreter like, 'Where is your experience?' It really made me feel pretty good. This judge asked more questions than the first and it seemed like they were able to find out more in-depth how interpreters are used and how they're qualified."
Caserta said the lack of qualified sign language interpreters in the state court system is an ongoing problem, and despite efforts by courts to remedy the problem, deaf people are still going to court without interpreters.
"Unfortunately in the state of Florida, there is no state law that requires what is called national certification," Caserta said. "In Florida, someone just needs to be deemed qualified, and that's a very vague term. There are people within the court system interpreting that don't have the qualifications to be there and we don't have a state law to back that up. We also don't have a licensing law ... in some jurisdictions, the courts are doing a great job, in others there's room for improvements."
Quinones said if other court officials are held to a high standard, so should the interpreters.
"The attorney has a degree, he has some sort of certificate," Quinones said. "The police that work there have to have some sort of a license, even the court reporter would have to be certified. All these people in the court system are held to high standards, why would an interpreter not have to receive the same level of credentials?"
Though Quinones' situation was resolved quickly, Caserta said there are dangers, especially in criminal cases, caused by Florida's lack of licensing and the fact that the burden is put on the deaf person to arrange for an interpreter.
"The system in place is that a deaf person needs to call and request an interpreter," Caserta said. "Sometimes that doesn't happen. Specifically, one of the worst examples is when deaf people are arrested for criminal charges and they're held at a detention facility and law enforcement is the only one that knows the deaf person is going to show up in court the next day. So law enforcement is the only one that can call the court and say, 'Mr. Jones is going to be there in the morning and he's going to need an interpreter.' So deaf people don't have the ability to even place a call for an interpreter because they're in detention - it's a very common problem we see."
Caserta said approximately 30 states have passed some form of licensing requirement, but a bill in Florida that would do the same has been stalled for five years. She said there's been a partnership between the Association for the Deaf, the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf and others that have tried to pass this legislation ensuring quality, licensed interpreters for things like court proceedings or doctor visits.
"One of the forces, unfortunately, behind trying to credential interpreters in courts, believe it or not, is actually the Florida Medical Association. They don't want to see interpreters get certified or require certification in any way because they're concerned it might spill over into the medical arena. They've been the main group that's been stopping the passage of the licensure bill for interpreters in Florida for the past four years and they're well funded."
But why would doctors want to block a bill that seemingly helps their patients?
"Right now for an interpreter, say in this area, there's usually a two-hour minimum, so it's going to run them around $100. And some doctors would say 'Medicaid only pays me $80 for the visit, so I don't want to pay the $100 for the interpreter.'"
Caserta also said there's a culture of misunderstanding among non-deaf people regarding the ability of those who are deaf to understand when a qualified interpreter is not present.
"A lot of people think all deaf people can lip read, and that's not true," Caserta said. "They think deaf people can somehow hear a little bit, or if you write back and forth it's good enough. But if a person was to see a Spanish speaking person, they wouldn't try to give them just a little bit - they'd realize, 'I can't speak Spanish, I can't speak to the person.' But with deaf people they go, 'Maybe they can lip read me or maybe if I scream at them, they'll hear me.' It's this constant form of pabulum."
But there are signs - literally - that the courts are sympathetic to the plight of the deaf and hearing impaired, if only here in Nassau County. Shortly after the grievance was filed, new signs with a picture of an ear with a line through it were hung inside the courthouse, alerting those who are deaf or hard of hearing that the facility is equipped with hearing assistance. That assistance comes largely by way of auxiliary aids that were already available in court, by request, but also includes 10 Court-Smart infrared hearing devices for those who are hard of hearing.
Quinones was pleased with the outcome, but both he and Caserta said there is a long way to go in terms of legislation and awareness.
"Most people don't do anything about it," Quinones said. "But I was not going to follow that course. I'm just like a hearing person, I just can't hear. I have a job, a house, a T-shirt business, I have all these things and I'm not going to keep that in. I'm going to do what I have to do, I'm going to see a lawyer, and I'm going to make sure I have an interpreter. I'm doing this not only for myself, but for other deaf people who aren't able to do it for themselves."