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TXgolfer said:
Many experts have other theories for the drop in the NYC crime rate......you are entitled to your opinion.
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Many experts? I'm sure they have other theories to explain but the fact still remains that only one expert's theory was used and it worked.

NYC (specifically - NYC Transit Authority) hired one expert with one theory - George L. Kelling to fix the subway crimes. Following his advice and expertise to the letter... the result was amazing. LAPD and Boston PD hired him as well. Later - Kelling's role expanded... serving as NYPD Commissioner Bratton's mentor to fix NYC problem in conjunction with Mayor Giuliani. It worked.

What you see today is the result of one expert with one theory. not many experts or many theories. and that's the fact... not my opinion. :cool2:
 
Jiro said:
What you see today is the result of one expert with one theory. not many experts or many theories. and that's the fact... not my opinion. :cool2:
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Fact? Really? Can you prove without a doubt that no other factors led to the decrease????

Ah nevermind......you are entitled to believe it is fact too.....
 
TXgolfer said:
Fact? Really? Can you prove without a doubt that no other factors led to the decrease????

Ah nevermind......you are entitled to believe it is fact too.....
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I see that you beg to differ so would you like to explain other theories?
 
Jiro said:
Many experts? I'm sure they have other theories to explain but the fact still remains that only one expert's theory was used and it worked.

NYC (specifically - NYC Transit Authority) hired one expert with one theory - George L. Kelling to fix the subway crimes. Following his advice and expertise to the letter... the result was amazing. LAPD and Boston PD hired him as well. Later - Kelling's role expanded... serving as NYPD Commissioner Bratton's mentor to fix NYC problem in conjunction with Mayor Giuliani. It worked.

What you see today is the result of one expert with one theory. not many experts or many theories. and that's the fact... not my opinion. :cool2:
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Legalized abortion and crime effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :hmm: This holds more merit to me. But I will say that cleaning up the graffiti and things like that most likly did help some, but if you need college education to figure that out maybe there is a reason crime was so bad before.
 
Jiro said:
I see that you beg to differ so would you like to explain other theories?
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I don't believe there is a clear answer.....Alot of experts feel that way as well. With a problem as big as NYC crime.......I certainly wouldn't latch on to explanation and claim that was the reason.
 
TXgolfer said:
I don't believe there is a clear answer.....Alot of experts feel that way as well. With a problem as big as NYC crime.......I certainly wouldn't latch on to explanation and claim that was the reason.
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well because there is no clear answer..... it's why it's called "theory", right? You mentioned that you study crime as hobby so which theories you like the best as explanation for NYC's improvement?

Apparently - mine is on George L. Kelling. you? feel free to explain any theories, thought, whatever you have. I'd like to know. Always good to widen my perspective. :)
 
Jiro said:
Roe v. Wade? I want to make sure with you. Are you saying that because of legalized abortion (Roe v. Wade)... it contributed to reduction in crimes?
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I'm not saying. You said that there was only one theory as to why crime fell. But I am saying that that expaination holds more merit than your theory.


I am not going to get into an abortion debate cause that will go no were except a lot of useless name calling.
 
Jiro said:
well because there is no clear answer..... it's why it's called "theory", right? You mentioned that you study crime as hobby so which theories you like the best as explanation for NYC's improvement?

Apparently - mine is on George L. Kelling. you? feel free to explain any theories, thought, whatever you have. I'd like to know. Always good to widen my perspective. :)
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Want to widen your perspective? Open your mind and read other theories.....better that than get the info second hand from me. :)
 
AndyE9503 said:
I'm not saying. You said that there was only one theory as to why crime fell. But I am saying that that expaination holds more merit than your theory.
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One VERY strong theory that produced a viable, apparent result.

AndyE9503 said:
I am not going to get into an abortion debate cause that will go no were except a lot of useless name calling.
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ah... I get where you're coming from. That's fine if you believe it holds more merit than Kelling's theory (not mine) but here's a problem to your belief.

if you think legalized abortion theory is what made NYC better.... then how come other major cities didn't? Kinda ironic that DC was where a landmark decision on abortion happened and yet... the crime rate in DC is still high to this date.....
 
TXgolfer said:
Want to widen your perspective? Open your mind and read other theories.....better that than get the info second hand from me. :)
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ah I thought so :)

well then - I'd like to read on other theories that you believe in so who? any names?
 
Jiro said:
One VERY strong theory that produced a viable, apparent result.



ah... I get where you're coming from. That's fine if you believe it holds more merit than Kelling's theory (not mine) but here's a couple of problems to your belief.

if you think legalized abortion theory is what made NYC better.... then how come other major cities didn't? Kinda ironic that DC was where a landmark decision on abortion happened and yet... the crime rate in DC is still high to this date.....
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Overall crime has fallen across the board. Some places more than others. I did say that the theory you are putting out may have helped, but the examples that I can find; broken windows, grafitti, bums cleaning car windows. Those do not need a college educated person to come in and say fix this. They are common sense and if the city really needed to be told those things then we know why crime got so bad in the first place. If I am only seeing the simplist part of what he did for NY can you give me a better site to read about it

As far as DC goes well when you are that close to the cesspool called the federal gov. there is no hope for ya. That type of evil just oozes out.
 
Jiro said:
ah I thought so :)

well then - I'd like to read on other theories that you believe in so who? any names?
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I don't have a particular theory or theories that I believe in.....sorry. And that includes Kelling's.
 
TXgolfer said:
I don't have a particular theory or theories that I believe in.....sorry. And that includes Kelling's.
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Without Roe v. Wade, there will be increase of illegal abortions then of course, illegal abortion is crime.
 
AndyE9503 said:
Overall crime has fallen across the board. Some places more than others. I did say that the theory you are putting out may have helped, but the examples that I can find; broken windows, grafitti, bums cleaning car windows. Those do not need a college educated person to come in and say fix this. They are common sense and if the city really needed to be told those things then we know why crime got so bad in the first place. If I am only seeing the simplist part of what he did for NY can you give me a better site to read about it
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You can read his book, studies, etc. (google his name, rent a book from public library) and also some brief history on NYC such as post-NYC (the one with Rudy Giuliani, William Bratton, Howard Safir) and pre-NYC (the one with Edward Koch and David Dinkins)

AndyE9503 said:
As far as DC goes well when you are that close to the cesspool called the federal gov. there is no hope for ya. That type of evil just oozes out.
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best theory ever. good one. :lol:
 
TXgolfer said:
You know how to use google..... :)
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Yes I do but I don't really use google for that. I use academic database because it's where I can find their publications or perhaps even better... a scholarly peer-reviewed paper.

so I'd like to know which theories and experts you are talking about so I can look it up. :ty:
 
Jiro said:
You can read his book, studies, etc. (google his name, rent a book from public library) and also some brief history on NYC such as post-NYC (the one with Rudy Giuliani, William Bratton, Howard Safir) and pre-NYC (the one with Edward Koch and David Dinkins)


best theory ever. good one. :lol:
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AARRR the book is on backorder. The local libraries only have one copy of it. Looks like It will be about 3 weeks before I can get it
 
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