CI's in Children

I was against the idea of young children being implanted while they are little under the parent's authority. I still do now, but now i am starting to change about that cuz for one thing i am one of those people who are applying to be a ci candiate (still waiting for response). I am 18 years old, i sometime wish my parent implanted me when i was little, to get it over with instead of 15 or more years later and finding out that she or he wants it anyway.

I went to like 5 appointments for evaulation. It was not bad til the last appt, it was the physcologist who was talkign to me. It was awkward but i answered many questions and stuff about my background and mental stablitiy. Now i am nervous about hearing from them. cuz I have bipolar disorder and already had been to the hosptial for sucidual attempts last summer. SO i am afriad that the team will think i am not mentally stable for it, even though i am fine now. But I have to wait and see.

My point, if my parent had implanted me 15 yrs ago, I wouldn't have to go through this application appointments, it would be different, sure they will evluate my hearing and stuff like that, but they wont have to evaluate my metnality and how my mind is safe and to see if i have regular expectation for getting a implant and that crap cuz i am little and more better risk than when i am at this age.

so basically i am not sure whether its wrong or not for parents to decide for kids's implantation. I feel its wrong morally, but i not sure about my feelings for that. But i am honest that i wish i was implanted when i was little.
 
>>I do not against CI but I beleive it's child's choice because it's their body, not mine.<<

can I be honest with all of you who happen to think so?

I think this is a way of avoiding responsibility. Washing off your hands, in other words.

~ because it's the child's own body, therefore it's not my responsibility to make a decision for him/her ~

You know, you need to have valid, well researched and well thought reasons to have an implant, or not.
You need to make conscious decision based on what you've learned. You also need to be able to recognize pros and cons, weigh them, understand the dangers involved with surgery.

Is the child able to do that all?


Washing off your hands and placing the whole responsibility on a child's shoulders in not a good idea.

It falls on an adult to make a decision for a child. It always does.

A child needs to be supervised until is at least 12 years old before it can stay home alone.
And then, depending on circumstances, an adult is still expected to care for, support and make a decision for 16 or 18 years old.

No child under 16 can apply for driver's licence, you have to be 18 or older to be able to go to the adult section here, 21 or older to buy beer alcohol and cigarettes.

The young child needs permission to merely go to his friend, an approval to buy a toy, is being told what to eat and what time go to bed.

And yet it's OK for a child to decide whether or not to get an implant???

How about if your child decide to have their tounge pierced? or get the tatoo? belly ring? nose ring?
why not - it's their body. Why suddenly the need to say no?
and mind you, having a tongue pierced is far less, -far less- of consequences than having a CI done.


You, as an adult, you are entitled to say- I've researched the subject extensively. I talked with drs, with users, with those who were happy and those who were not. I talked to the families of implanted, and I came to a decision. And my decision is this: ....


Just my humble opinion..

Fuzzy
 
*sigh* you mixed CI surgery with children education here. CI condition has nothing do with children education/responsibly because CI is not belong to kind of emergencies. :)

Anyway, I has to answer your topic off post here. :)

Audiofuzzy said:
>>I do not against CI but I beleive it's child's choice because it's their body, not mine.<<

can I be honest with all of you who happen to think so?

I think this is a way of avoiding responsibility. Washing off your hands, in other words.

~ because it's the child's own body, therefore it's not my responsibility to make a decision for him/her ~
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Well CI is not belong to kind of emergency but comestic. Is it okay to pull the children to surgery to change their body because the parents wants? It would be different story if there're an emergency but CI is not belong to kind of emergency. Why should I change my children body?

You know, you need to have valid, well researched and well thought reasons to have an implant, or not.
You need to make conscious decision based on what you've learned. You also need to be able to recognize pros and cons, weigh them, understand the dangers involved with surgery.
Click to expand...

I beleive it's children's choice because it's them who wear REST OF THEIR LIFE, not me

Is the child able to do that all?
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Yes, I'm mother of 2 children. :) The children know what they doing because they have feeling. :) I would be happy to support my children if they want to have CI because I know CI is better development.

Washing off your hands and placing the whole responsibility on a child's shoulders in not a good idea.
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Educate the children into right path is parent's responsible, not change their body to surgery. :)

It falls on an adult to make a decision for a child. It always does.
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It look like that you do what you want for your children because you don't accept what they are? Is it ok for the parent's decision to change the children's body without know what the children wants? The children has the rights to say NO to their parents if they want to change somethings for them. Important is show your respect and attention to your children's feeling not force them something what they don't want. :)

A child needs to be supervised until is at least 12 years old before it can stay home alone.
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It belongs to children upbringing. Depend on children's maturity either the parents can trust to leave them alone or not.

And then, depending on circumstances, an adult is still expected to care for, support and make a decision for 16 or 18 years old.
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Depend on children's maturity.

No child under 16 can apply for driver's licence, you have to be 18 or older to be able to go to the adult section here, 21 or older to buy beer alcohol and cigarettes.
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Accord German law: the children are allow to apply for driver's licesnce from 18 years old.

The young child needs permission to merely go to his friend, an approval to buy a toy, is being told what to eat and what time go to bed.
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So? It belong to children education, where the parents are responsible for them, not change them what the parents wants.

And yet it's OK for a child to decide whether or not to get an implant???
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Yes, a child will have my support. :)

How about if your child decide to have their tounge pierced? or get the tatoo? belly ring? nose ring?
why not - it's their body. Why suddenly the need to say no?
and mind you, having a tongue pierced is far less, -far less- of consequences than having a CI done.
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I educate my children to be respect what good or bad is. Explain to your children with patience why they can't have it is important than said just NO or pull your children to surgery without listen your children's wish.

I already explain my children why not do it until they are 18 years old when my eldest son ask me for ear piercing. He understood and respect me.

You, as an adult, you are entitled to say- I've researched the subject extensively. I talked with drs, with users, with those who were happy and those who were not. I talked to the families of implanted, and I came to a decision. And my decision is this: ....
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wow, you pull your children to surgery because you are an adult and do what you want for your children. Me, I would NEVER do that because CI is not belongs to kind of emergerncies but comestic. :) Why should I change my children's body? I accept what they are because I love them. I will be happy to support my children if they want to have CI.

This is difference between children upbringing/education limit and unnecassary surgery. :)

Just my humble opinion..
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Ok, it's your opinion but please don't mix CI condition with children education here.
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>>>*sigh* you mixed CI surgery with children education here.<<<

How is that Liebling? CI is proven to restore hearing. How is children education going to restore hearing? For example, with CI the child may be able to hear voice for the first time, how is education going to achieve that?


>>>Well CI is not belong to kind of emergency but comestic<<<

Please read my reply to your post with voting.
You are wrong here, Liebling. As I've explained it is elective surgery, not cosmetic. CI is not about the appearance it is about restoring vital body function- hearing.


>>>I beleive it's children's choice because it's them who wear REST OF THEIR LIFE, not me<<<

I am not sure if you understand- the children are too immature to fully comprehend the consequences of such a life altering decision.
They do not understand many complicated factors involved with such a surgery.
They do not know, and are unable to comprehend, for example, the importance of the first 6 years of life in the process of speech learning.

Then they do not understand that while the first 6 years are vital in the learning of speech, it is also next to impossible to predict at this age what the hearing loss is going to be - worth or not implanting? How do you expect a, say, 2 years old to comprehend then decide what is good for him? You, as an adult, don't know what to do..


I am not saying force the children to implant but you can't put the decision solely on their shoulders.
You as a parent and as adult must decide what is best for them.

It is okay if you feel they shoul stay "au naturel" - as God made them. If you feel they should stay deaf because there is nothing wrong with being deaf - kudos to you !!
but that is not the same as "hands off" approach.

>>>not change their body to surgery<<<

but if that means they life would be easier? and they may thank you later?


>>>wow, you pull your children to surgery because you are an adult and do what you want for your children.<<<<


Absolutely! Not because "I can" but because I want what is best for them. I would research first, and then decide. That does not mean automatically implanting - I may also come to the conclusion that it's not neccessary.

that's what I tried to explain by examples of not leaving your child alone until is at least 12 years old, by not allowing them to have drivers licence before (USA) 16 y.o, etc,
that I AM resposible for them, and as an adult and a parent it is MY resposibility to make the best possible choices for them until they are mature enough to do that for themselves.
Why because they are too immature to comprehend the whole situation now.

let's suppose your 16 years old girl wants to get married and have baby because she thinks this is what she wants. Do you think it is right? Do you think she fully comprehend what it means to get married and be a mother?
Beacuse I don't think so.

The same is with CI. Young children may know basics about what it is and how it works, but they do not understand fully what is involved- because they are too young!

Liebling, it is a pleasure to debate with you. You gave me a lot to think of and valid arguments. Thank you. I look forward to your replies, hope you feel the same way :wave:

Fuzzy
 
What asshole of mother ??

Unbelievable, mother thinks of herself to put her son cochlear implants. This little adorable boy did not ask for it. It is his body !!

macandmum.jpg
 
>>>This little adorable boy did not ask for it<<<<

But don't you understand - this little adorable boy has no way to understand the gravity of the situation.

If you handed him a flashlight he wouldn't know why and how does it work and how it may affect him- he would only know that if you flip the switch the lamp will make light!!! and we are talking about CI here !!

Fuzzy
 
I totally understand what Sabby is saying. I think in obvious cases, there's nothing wrong with implanting a child, but in cases that are more ambigious...the parents should wait until the child's a little older.
i am not sure whether its wrong or not for parents to decide for kids's implantation. I feel its wrong morally, but i not sure about my feelings for that. But i am honest that i wish i was implanted when i was little.
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darkangel I can understand.... I think that b/c this is a medical problem, and something that can be put on hold that the child should WAIT so they and the parents can decide!
 
Audiofuzzy said:
>>>*sigh* you mixed CI surgery with children education here.<<<

How is that Liebling? CI is proven to restore hearing. How is children education going to restore hearing? For example, with CI the child may be able to hear voice for the first time, how is education going to achieve that?
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Change children's body has nothing do with children upbringing/edcuation. You can't mix surgery with children upbringing limit.

>>>Well CI is not belong to kind of emergency but comestic<<<

Please read my reply to your post with voting.
You are wrong here, Liebling. As I've explained it is elective surgery, not cosmetic. CI is not about the appearance it is about restoring vital body function- hearing.
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elective surgery is STILL relate to cosmetic. :) example about breast silkon, etc because they want to change to improve their body.

>>>I beleive it's children's choice because it's them who wear REST OF THEIR LIFE, not me<<<

I am not sure if you understand- the children are too immature to fully comprehend the consequences of such a life altering decision.
They do not understand many complicated factors involved with such a surgery.
They do not know, and are unable to comprehend, for example, the importance of the first 6 years of life in the process of speech learning.
Click to expand...

wow, you call the children as immature instead of consider the children's feeling. It look like that you would say to your children "You are too young to understand" without consider your children's feeling. I would NEVER do that. Example about head surgery, my 12 years son had at 3 weeks ago. My son and I talked long together until he convinced why we want him have head surgery to prevent paralysis within 1 to 2 years later. It belongs patience and communicate key.

Then they do not understand that while the first 6 years are vital in the learning of speech, it is also next to impossible to predict at this age what the hearing loss is going to be - worth or not implanting? How do you expect a, say, 2 years old to comprehend then decide what is good for him? You, as an adult, don't know what to do..
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Did I say toddler in my previous post? I never say about toddler but children which mean is from 6 years old. :)

I am not saying force the children to implant but you can't put the decision solely on their shoulders.
You as a parent and as adult must decide what is best for them.
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No, I'm not put the decision on children shoulder but help/support children's choice/decision IS let children to mix CI, hearing and deaf culture until they learn what good or bad. Let me explain the example what I know from alot of 7 to 8 years old children in Germany, they keep on tell their deaf parents to want to have CI. It took deaf parents few years to wait and sure, also search pros/cons about CI issues and explain their children that they have to visit to any therapies to learn hear and speech development, etc. They support their children's choice because they really WANT since they learn from CI, hearing and deaf groups. The children have the feeling and know exactly what they really want. I meet alot of children like this and know that they have feeling because I myself am mother of 2 children.

It is okay if you feel they shoul stay "au naturel" - as God made them. If you feel they should stay deaf because there is nothing wrong with being deaf - kudos to you !!
but that is not the same as "hands off" approach.
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:confused: Your post sound that you are not happy with your deafness or what? I accept my deafness long time ago thank my parent to give me positive about my deafness. I remember their word "You must be glad that you have healthy body except ears - look at severe handicapped people who can't read/speak etc" when I complaint them about my deafness. I was like :eek2: and has to agree with them. I would not negative my children over disability.

>>>not change their body to surgery<<<
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but if that means they life would be easier? and they may thank you later?
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No, it's not late to have CI on the children. I saw alot of children between 6 and 9 years old who have CI surgery and willing to learn to hear and speech. They speak well.

I would ask my parents to CI me straight way when I born between 1975 and 1980.

I talked CI users who felt that their parents look them as baby designer, not accept what they are. I study and realized that they have feeling. Some are angry with their parents, some not.

>>>wow, you pull your children to surgery because you are an adult and do what you want for your children.<<<<

Absolutely! Not because "I can" but because I want what is best for them. I would research first, and then decide. That does not mean automatically implanting - I may also come to the conclusion that it's not neccessary.
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Okay, this is your opinion.

that's what I tried to explain by examples of not leaving your child alone until is at least 12 years old, by not allowing them to have drivers licence before (USA) 16 y.o, etc,
that I AM resposible for them, and as an adult and a parent it is MY resposibility to make the best possible choices for them until they are mature enough to do that for themselves.
Why because they are too immature to comprehend the whole situation now.
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Yes I'm responsible for the children till they are 18 years old and legal. They still have my support.

Depend on different children's maturity whom you can trust to. Important is respect, patience and communicate key instead of do what you want for them because you think you do the best choice for them without consider/listen how the children feeling.

I notice most parents said to the children "You will understand when you grow up" or "It's hard for me to explain you why because you are too young to understand" etc when the children ask their parents questions out of curiously. It's not right education what they give their children. All what I do is give them honest answer with patience way and explain to convince them why they should not do that or should do that, instead of "MUST". This is a COMMUNICATE KEY.

let's suppose your 16 years old girl wants to get married and have baby because she thinks this is what she wants. Do you think it is right? Do you think she fully comprehend what it means to get married and be a mother?
Beacuse I don't think so.
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Well, I would keep on explain my children why I think it's too young to get married because it's important to learn to enjoy their life first before settling down etc. instead of forbidden them or say NO..... They will have my blessing if they keep on for want to get married. Why? Let them learn their own mistake/right and then will go back to say to me later "Mom, you are right, I should listen you in first place when they realized that they make some mistakes. You can't hide your children from mistakes but let them learn their own mistake. The children will never learn what right or wrong if you keep on forbidden them or force them do what you want. Remember that parents are also make mistake sometimes when they decide right for their children.

The same is with CI. Young children may know basics about what it is and how it works, but they do not understand fully what is involved- because they are too young!
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Ok, it's your opinion. See my above post.

Liebling, it is a pleasure to debate with you. You gave me a lot to think of and valid arguments. Thank you. I look forward to your replies, hope you feel the same way :wave:
Fuzzy
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Yes, I enjoy myself to debate with you in agree to disagree respectful way. I don't mind to debate with anyone because I enjoy to learn and collect the experiences why they have different opinion as me. :thumb:
 
deafdyke said:
I totally understand what Sabby is saying. I think in obvious cases, there's nothing wrong with implanting a child, but in cases that are more ambigious...the parents should wait until the child's a little older.

darkangel I can understand.... I think that b/c this is a medical problem, and something that can be put on hold that the child should WAIT so they and the parents can decide!
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Yes I second that.
 
Audiofuzzy, I forget to add one more in my post.

Would you choose clothes for your children? What you do if your children don't like the clothes, you choose for them?
 
Liebling:-))) said:
I educate my children to be respect what good or bad is. Explain to your children with patience why they can't have it is important than said just NO or pull your children to surgery without listen your children's wish.

I already explain my children why not do it until they are 18 years old when my eldest son ask me for ear piercing. He understood and respect me.
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My parents do the same, beside it makes the day of turning 18 more exciting becuase they know they can get pierced or tattooed when they turn 18. I know cuz it happened to me..
 
>>>What you do if your children don't like the clothes, you choose for them?<<<

You compare clothes to CI ?????


*sigh*

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
>>>What you do if your children don't like the clothes, you choose for them?<<<

You compare clothes to CI ?????


*sigh*

Fuzzy
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See it now! Right, clothes is nothing do with CI issue but children education. :)

I already explained you in my previous post to not compare CI issue with children education but you did not listen.

Check this link what I said to you to not mix with children edcuation.
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=9408&highlight=eBay
 
to not compare CI issue with children education

I do not compare CI to education


Oh no no ,Liebling, I've listened.
I think you don't understand my point.

You tend to mix two separate issues

Change children's body has nothing do with children upbringing/edcuation. You can't mix surgery with children upbringing limit.

I agree on this one, but this is NOT what I am talking about.

etc because they want to change to improve their body.

The key word is FUNCTION, not change, or body.

My son and I talked long together until he convinced why we want him have head surgery to prevent paralysis within 1 to 2 years later.

An if he has said NO??
see, it's not him who decided - you decided, then convinced him to agree. He is too young to understand the stake.


Your post sound that you are not happy with your deafness or what?

Im not sure I understand, but if you didn't understand me either "kudos" mean thumbs up.

No, it's not late to have CI on the children.

I'm afraid it really depends on the severity of hearing loss.
because, if the child is born totally deaf, implanting right away would fall in the period when children learn how to speak - all children.

If you implant them at the age of 6, or later, they may miss an opportunity to speak well - forever.
That's why it's so hard to decide..

wow, you call the children as immature instead of consider the children's feeling.

Children ARE immature, that does not mean you don't ask them about their feelings.

But you can't always let the children decide.


"It's hard for me to explain you why because you are too young to understand"

but that's true, try to explain to the 6 y old. how did the TV picture get there :)

you can only explain so much..

Good sparring, Liebling!


Fuzzy
 
I would let my child to choose whatever he/she want to do with the implants.. if they choose to not then that's fine with me

I would look at how much my child's hearing test if he/she pass the hard of hearing line... no reason to put the implant.
If my child born hearing and become deaf when age 5, there are a chance to implant the ci in, If the child born deaf and it will not working cuz no hearing..

I born deaf and i had version 0.1 and it not really successful for me and i got my ci when i was 5 year old.. I don't blame on my dad for making his choice to implant me because it's very very old techique and old news that he thought i would be able to hear in the future.. he relaized that Ci isnt' working on me cuz im profound deaf. If i wasn't born deaf.. maybe it will work in some way so we won't know the answer.


I still not able hear anything with CI.
 
CoolieFroggie said:
I would let my child to choose whatever he/she want to do with the implants.. if they choose to not then that's fine with me

I would look at how much my child's hearing test if he/she pass the hard of hearing line... no reason to put the implant.
If my child born hearing and become deaf when age 5, there are a chance to implant the ci in, If the child born deaf and it will not working cuz no hearing..

I born deaf and i had version 0.1 and it not really successful for me and i got my ci when i was 5 year old.. I don't blame on my dad for making his choice to implant me because it's very very old techique and old news that he thought i would be able to hear in the future.. he relaized that Ci isnt' working on me cuz im profound deaf. If i wasn't born deaf.. maybe it will work in some way so we won't know the answer.


I still not able hear anything with CI.
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Just out of curiousity (altho, I think I know the answer to this :lol: ), have you considered implanting a newer CI model to see if you could still benefit from CI?
 
>>If the child born deaf and it will not working cuz no hearing..<<

but CI is for NO hearing...???

>>>he relaized that Ci isnt' working on me cuz im profound deaf.<<<<

My dr told me I need to be profound deaf to be a candidate for CI.
I am severe to profound, he said I am borderline - not too deaf for YES! but too deaf for no!....

That does not mean I don't believe it didn't worked for you.
But I would try a newer version if I was you - what's to lose? you got implanted anyway. Might as well demand the best CI.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
>>If the child born deaf and it will not working cuz no hearing..<<

but CI is for NO hearing...???

>>>he relaized that Ci isnt' working on me cuz im profound deaf.<<<<

My dr told me I need to be profound deaf to be a candidate for CI.
I am severe to profound, he said I am borderline - not too deaf for YES! but too deaf for no!....

That does not mean I don't believe it didn't worked for you.
But I would try a newer version if I was you - what's to lose? you got implanted anyway. Might as well demand the best CI.

Fuzzy
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you don't get what i mean..

The newer one could work for me...

My older version isn't working anymore for me. My verison is channel 1.

The newer is channel 25 I believe it's MUCH MUCH better what i had.

To answer oceanbreeze's answer and you too..

I would consider NOT implant the newer Ci cuz i had sereval headaches.. Being deaf being nature and i would rather to leave it alone..
 
>>>cuz i had sereval headaches<<<

now this is off topic but I wondered if you know what are these headaches?
do you suffer from migraine?

and

>>> you don't get what i mean.. <<<

no I am sorry I don't think I do.. care to explain :) ?

Fuzzy
 
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