brakes

I have read stories about people welding on parts cleaned with chlorinated brake cleaner. It releases toxic fumes that can kill you.
 
Glenn said:
I have read stories about people welding on parts cleaned with chlorinated brake cleaner. It releases toxic fumes that can kill you.
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Kidding me but I did it. Is this real serious? If so I wont do it again. I used to clean the dirty/greased aluminum sheet with brake cleaner spray can (non-chlorinated) prior to TIG welding at my home as my hobby project.
 
deafsmogtech said:
Kidding me but I did it. Is this real serious? If so I wont do it again. I used to clean the dirty/greased aluminum sheet with brake cleaner spray can (non-chlorinated) prior to TIG welding at my home as my hobby project.
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Absolutely serious. There are many stories on the Internet.

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article

Anything with chlorine in it can create phosgene gas.
 
Glenn said:
Absolutely serious. There are many stories on the Internet.

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article

Anything with chlorine in it can create phosgene gas.
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Sound like you save my life. Thanks for link. Wow. I had no problem with bad fume from TIG welding. Next time I use acetone or alcohol. The reason I use a brake cleaner spray can, is I am lazy to walking over the flammable proof cabinet to get an acetone can to clean the dirty/grease aluminum sheet.
 
deafsmogtech said:
Sound like you save my life. Thanks for link. Wow. I had no problem with bad fume from TIG welding. Next time I use acetone or alcohol. The reason I use a brake cleaner spray can, is I am lazy to walking over the flammable proof cabinet to get an acetone can to clean the dirty/grease aluminum sheet.
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Use non-chlorinated brake cleaner.
 
95 Chevy Astro

I have my 95 Chevy Astro van for loose front suspension last couple of weeks ago after felt heavy pop/creak thru a steering wheel when release the brake pedal during moderate braking at the stop. I think there might be loose upper A control arms. Few days later, I picked up my van and pull into the service bay at the end of the shop day, examined the treadwear of the front tires, found normal alignment, inspect the suspension for sign of loose, found nothing wrong. Somehow I spot the front brake pads were too thin about 1 mm left and found the thickness of the rotors are not met the spec after re-machining. I also spot red dust on the bushings mounted on the frame to body, indicated for pop/creak problem. I decided to do the front brake job first then replace all bushings (cushions) later. On next day, I replaced new brake pads, hub bearings and seals, resurface the my spare brake rotors (used). The parts cost me $ 62.20 except brake rotors. I drove it home by the night.

Next day, I got a new problem with brakes when my van pulls right side sharp on the freeway(on way home from work) while moderate braking. No pulls while lightly braking. Sounds like looped caliper, twisted brake hose ( new hoses replaced 2 yrs ago). Frustrated. Two days later, I examined the lefthand caliper, found no looped or twisted hose. Nothing wrong. I gamble with new reman front brake calipers and new master cylinder.
Last Friday night, I replaced 2 calipers and new master cylinder, flush brake fluid then drove it home from the shop.... found SAME problem with pull right side. I spend $ 152.35 on reman calipers and m/c, that cant fix it. I ground my van on the driveway for weekend. I search IATN forum, got some tips from posters. Yesterday, I examined the brake pads (Posi-Quiet brand name), the friction looks like Kingsford BBQ charcoals, wonder why the pads or caliper on the lefthand, won't grab the rotor than another rotor. I pick 3 things to cause the pull side problem, is pads,used rotors and hub bearings but I go with the brake pads first. I swapped the pads on side to side. I drove it home. Guess what? My van pulls LEFT SIDE while moderate braking. The problem is FRONT BRAKE PADS!!!!!!. Oh fuck, I will get Warner or genius GM brake pad set. Defective Posi-Quiet pads. Damn....
 
deafsmogtech said:
I have my 95 Chevy Astro van for loose front suspension last couple of weeks ago after felt heavy pop/creak thru a steering wheel when release the brake pedal during moderate braking at the stop. I think there might be loose upper A control arms. Few days later, I picked up my van and pull into the service bay at the end of the shop day, examined the treadwear of the front tires, found normal alignment, inspect the suspension for sign of loose, found nothing wrong. Somehow I spot the front brake pads were too thin about 1 mm left and found the thickness of the rotors are not met the spec after re-machining. I also spot red dust on the bushings mounted on the frame to body, indicated for pop/creak problem. I decided to do the front brake job first then replace all bushings (cushions) later. On next day, I replaced new brake pads, hub bearings and seals, resurface the my spare brake rotors (used). The parts cost me $ 62.20 except brake rotors. I drove it home by the night.

Next day, I got a new problem with brakes when my van pulls right side sharp on the freeway(on way home from work) while moderate braking. No pulls while lightly braking. Sounds like looped caliper, twisted brake hose ( new hoses replaced 2 yrs ago). Frustrated. Two days later, I examined the lefthand caliper, found no looped or twisted hose. Nothing wrong. I gamble with new reman front brake calipers and new master cylinder.
Last Friday night, I replaced 2 calipers and new master cylinder, flush brake fluid then drove it home from the shop.... found SAME problem with pull right side. I spend $ 152.35 on reman calipers and m/c, that cant fix it. I ground my van on the driveway for weekend. I search IATN forum, got some tips from posters. Yesterday, I examined the brake pads (Posi-Quiet brand name), the friction looks like Kingsford BBQ charcoals, wonder why the pads or caliper on the lefthand, won't grab the rotor than another rotor. I pick 3 things to cause the pull side problem, is pads,used rotors and hub bearings but I go with the brake pads first. I swapped the pads on side to side. I drove it home. Guess what? My van pulls LEFT SIDE while moderate braking. The problem is FRONT BRAKE PADS!!!!!!. Oh fuck, I will get Warner or genius GM brake pad set. Defective Posi-Quiet pads. Damn....
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this doesnt sound like bad brake pads at all, this sounds like you need to to bleed your brakes. Also sounds like you didnt assemble one of those calipers correctly. Do note that whoever checked your alignment might not have done it correctly, sounds like you have a toe or camber problem with that front left wheel
 
Tigersharkdude, I already adjusted rear brake shoes, bleed 4 corners AFTER replaced a new master cylinder and 2 front calipers. My van still pull to RIGHT side when braking then I swapped the inboard/outboard pads from the caliper (right-hand) to another caliper (left-hand), got another problem with pull to LEFT side when braking. I pinpoint defective new brake pads. I will get another pad set today and hope it will fix it. I ll update you later. Dst
 
deafsmogtech said:
Tigersharkdude, I already adjusted rear brake shoes, bleed 4 corners AFTER replaced a new master cylinder and 2 front calipers. My van still pull to RIGHT side when braking then I swapped the inboard/outboard pads from the caliper (right-hand) to another caliper (left-hand), got another problem with pull to LEFT side when braking. I pinpoint defective new brake pads. I will get another pad set today and hope it will fix it. I ll update you later. Dst
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What brand of the brake pads? Warner or genius GM brake?
 
I got BLACK LABEL brake pads similar to POSI-QUIET brand cuz the GM or Bendix (under Warner) I think, cost more. I exchange them at no charge. My van got very good brake performance no more pull. I'm happy with BLACK LABEL brake pads. However we still use POSI-QUIET brake pads to service the brake jobs. Mine is ceramic brake pads but they can create black dust over the wheels like European vehicles.
I plan to replace 6 cushions (rubber brushing) on the frame to body someday. I hope the new cushions will fix a loose subframe and correct the steering wheel straight. Dst
 
deafsmogtech said:
Tigersharkdude, I already adjusted rear brake shoes, bleed 4 corners AFTER replaced a new master cylinder and 2 front calipers. My van still pull to RIGHT side when braking then I swapped the inboard/outboard pads from the caliper (right-hand) to another caliper (left-hand), got another problem with pull to LEFT side when braking. I pinpoint defective new brake pads. I will get another pad set today and hope it will fix it. I ll update you later. Dst
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oh, pads should always be replaced on both sides.
 
tigersharkdude said:
oh, pads should always be replaced on both sides.
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The defective brake pads that I think the metal backing plates where the friction bonded, is too soft, maybe these plates were not heat treated :dunno:
I 've been identify many pads are imported (mainly China). I use same POSI-QUIET pads last 2 years ago with no problem until I got defective pads that is where I throw new master cylinder and calipers that cant fix the pull to the side problem. I notice the brake distance is short better than before with light brake pedal effort, must be fresh master cylinder/ calipers. I cant complain. Dst
 
I drove in my van, heading home from work yesterday, on the freeway, I depress the brake pedal as my van dive in straight, no pull to side even my hands taken off from the steering wheel. Good balanced brakes. Do not try to copy me.:giggle:
 
deafsmogtech said:
The defective brake pads that I think the metal backing plates where the friction bonded, is too soft, maybe these plates were not heat treated :dunno:
I 've been identify many pads are imported (mainly China). I use same POSI-QUIET pads last 2 years ago with no problem until I got defective pads that is where I throw new master cylinder and calipers that cant fix the pull to the side problem. I notice the brake distance is short better than before with light brake pedal effort, must be fresh master cylinder/ calipers. I cant complain. Dst
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I think you are right about heat treatment issue. When I worked at armstrong flooring papermill, they were making paper for AC delco brake shoes. I was running the steam heat treatment machine and if you hurry the process/delay paper pull after heat treat or miscount the paper being pulled through, then you will ruin the whole roll. What really marveled me about process is that the paper was thinner then tissue paper and is full of graphite is how thin and soft the paper is before treatment and when AC delco takes the treated paper they would put many layers on top of each other to press into a hard brake shoe pad.
Just think, if the paper operator messes up the process on ONE section and there is many layers of paper in one brake shoe pad....... need I explain more?
 
radioman said:
I think you are right about heat treatment issue. When I worked at armstrong flooring papermill, they were making paper for AC delco brake shoes. I was running the steam heat treatment machine and if you hurry the process/delay paper pull after heat treat or miscount the paper being pulled through, then you will ruin the whole roll. What really marveled me about process is that the paper was thinner then tissue paper and is full of graphite is how thin and soft the paper is before treatment and when AC delco takes the treated paper they would put many layers on top of each other to press into a hard brake shoe pad.
Just think, if the paper operator messes up the process on ONE section and there is many layers of paper in one brake shoe pad....... need I explain more?
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Interest story. I guess the quality control inspectors random samples of the brake pads,and accepted but few defective pads are overlooked and packed in the boxes and export to the distributors. The defective brake pads that I installed last week ago, was my first time in my mechanic career. Wow.
 
Cost of the brake parts

I paid $ 219.55 brake parts for my van. Here is:

Front brake pads............$26.78
2 Hub seals.....................$4.32.......$2.16 ea
2 Inner bearings.............$17.26.....$8.63 ea
2 Outer bearings............$18.84.....$9.42 ea
Total....$67.20 no tax
I throw a new master cylinder and 2 reman front brake calipers to correct the pull to side problem but can't solve it. The reason I replaced reman brake calipers is I suspected frozen or stick piston in a caliper after clamped the piston down and stuck that may cause the vehicle pull to side. Master cylinder? Cuz I want a new m/c to replace aged m/c and calipers at same time. Old m/c is not cause my van pull to side. Here is:

2 reman front brake calipers...............$73.76..........$36.88ea
New master cylinder............................$66.33
Tax.........$12.26..... total.....$152.35
Parts .....$219.55
3 brake fluid DOT3........$ zero
Labor..............................$ zero.

If I am a customer of this van, would cough up $ 1,200ish.. Dst
 
Glenn said:
^^ Your labor is worth something to you. Just sayin'.
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Mechanic is my life since I was 8 years old, thanked to my uncles (my mother's side) who infected me. Maybe you will see me as a 80 years old deaf mechanic in the future (I'm 50ish). :cool2:
 
Today, I found out the BLACK LABEL brake pads cost $10 dollars more than the POSI-QUIET. I exchanged the brake pads at no extra charge. I spell WARNER wrong, correct name WAGNER. OOPS.
The WAGNER brake parts are under Honeywell name, I learned. Bendix ( high quality parts) is under Federal Mogul name. I've been see the Bendix brakes are Chinese made. If I go with the Bendix brake pads, will last about 2 years same as the cheap Black Label pads. What's the different? One thing I see the frictions bonded on the B L brake pad plates are made of black ceramic material like BBQ charcoal that can mess up the wheels. Bendix pads looks like light grey color maybe composed with metallic and ceramic, reduce dust mist. I'm not a rocket scientist of the brakes. I dunno.
 
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