Bilateral Implants

ismi said:
As one of those people who had 'borderline' speech perception in real-world (non-testing) situations, I'm just going to reiterate that you really don't know what you're talking about. You of all people should know that there's a huge difference between being able to cope with spoken language, and being comfortable using it on a daily basis.

So if that's the difference, then why not? Similarly, if going from one CI to two is the difference between being 'functionally HOH' (as you're so fond of saying) and being substantially less HOH, what's the problem? Particularly since the criteria on which every audiologist I've ever spoken to bases their decision is similar between "no CI to one CI" and "one CI to two".

The fact that you keep suggesting that tactile HAs and the Impact are equivalent to a CI is just further evidence that you haven't really thought this through. You're not an audiologist; you're not a CI user. And your posts don't show that you've done any real research or thinking about CIs. Until you have something new to say ... please do us all a favor and quit rehashing the same (repeatedly refuted) talking points.
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Thank you! ismi!

.
 
ismi said:
As one of those people who had 'borderline' speech perception in real-world (non-testing) situations, I'm just going to reiterate that you really don't know what you're talking about. You of all people should know that there's a huge difference between being able to cope with spoken language, and being comfortable using it on a daily basis.

So if that's the difference, then why not? Similarly, if going from one CI to two is the difference between being 'functionally HOH' (as you're so fond of saying) and being substantially less HOH, what's the problem? Particularly since the criteria on which every audiologist I've ever spoken to bases their decision is similar between "no CI to one CI" and "one CI to two".

The fact that you keep suggesting that tactile HAs and the Impact are equivalent to a CI is just further evidence that you haven't really thought this through. You're not an audiologist; you're not a CI user. And your posts don't show that you've done any real research or thinking about CIs. Until you have something new to say ... please do us all a favor and quit rehashing the same (repeatedly refuted) talking points.
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Bravo! :bowdown: :gpost:
 
ismi said:
As one of those people who had 'borderline' speech perception in real-world (non-testing) situations, I'm just going to reiterate that you really don't know what you're talking about. You of all people should know that there's a huge difference between being able to cope with spoken language, and being comfortable using it on a daily basis.

So if that's the difference, then why not? Similarly, if going from one CI to two is the difference between being 'functionally HOH' (as you're so fond of saying) and being substantially less HOH, what's the problem? Particularly since the criteria on which every audiologist I've ever spoken to bases their decision is similar between "no CI to one CI" and "one CI to two".

The fact that you keep suggesting that tactile HAs and the Impact are equivalent to a CI is just further evidence that you haven't really thought this through. You're not an audiologist; you're not a CI user. And your posts don't show that you've done any real research or thinking about CIs. Until you have something new to say ... please do us all a favor and quit rehashing the same (repeatedly refuted) talking points.
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Thank you, Ismi!
 
LadySekhmet
Well, it's not that it's "how familiar", it's the fact the sound is there and when there's sound, it's feels as if it's right there in my face the whole time. I can't "push" it away. it may take some time to train myself to ignore it, however growing up with hearing aids, I kind of have learned to hear everything, including sounds that hearing people have learned to filter out.
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LadySekhmet - I think I am "getting" the just of what you are describing. :) Thanks for sharing.

I hope that you are successful with your "push". :)
 
I had 1% and 17% - so no bilateral was the way to go for me. Digital did nothing for me. The only ones who can say if CI/HA combo works is the ones who use CI/HA combo. In my case the hearing benefits of bilateral CI outweigh the disadvantages of CI/HA.
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Guys, again.....I'm NOT against bilateral. I'm just saying that reponse to hearing technologies is and can be VERY hit or miss. I definitly think that if both ears show consistant and poor response to traditional hearing technologies, then someone should be able to get implanted with no grief. HOWEVER, I'm also saying that there should be some sort of way to filter out those types of people who are all "gotta have new technology." That in turn, would help people who clearly qualify for CI, since you guys wouldn't have to go through insurance grief due to " gotta have the latest cutting edge" medical care types.
It IS a fact that response to hearing technologies is VERY hit or miss.
Yes....virtually EVERYONE HERE thought it through, and went through the "maybe try another kind of aid" process. That's awesome! However that doesn't mean that EVERYONE is like you guys!
 
Deafdyke,

Have you ever come across any CI users who were implanted *solely* because they had to have the latest and greatest technology? Because out of all the CI users I know, none of them took the decision to get a CI lightly. In fact, all of them thoroughly explored their options and even after they made the decision to have a CI, they continued to do their research to make sure it was the right decision for them. To be honest, I can't say that I've ever heard of someone getting a CI because it was trendy or the latest and greatest technology.
 
Hear Again said:
Deafdyke,

Have you ever come across any CI users who were implanted *solely* because they had to have the latest and greatest technology? Because out of all the CI users I know, none of them took the decision to get a CI lightly. In fact, all of them thoroughly explored their options and even after they made the decision to have a CI, they continued to do their research to make sure it was the right decision for them. To be honest, I can't say that I've ever heard of someone getting a CI because it was trendy or the latest and greatest technology.
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I agree with Hear Again. It took me five years to make my decision. I could care less for trendy or technology.
 
Actually wait........I think that bilateral CI should be an automatic option if the first CI only gets the implantee into moderate hoh listening levels or worse range. However, I still do think that it might be worth it for some people to experiment with other technologies before going bilateral. Response to hearing technology is just so indivdual that you really can't make generalizations as to which hearing technology is best for a particular person.
Again, it's great that the folks here thought long and hard about opting for implants. Many people do not take the decision lightly.....and that's GOOD.
However, I do know of at least two people who got a ton of benifit from HA, who have bought the company line that CI is ALWAYS better then HA.
One of them could hear 80% with HA (that was my listening level with HA when I was little!) He'd heard a lot about CI, and had been thinking of getting one.
The second was the mom of two little boys who could hear 60% with HA, even thou they had a severe-profound loss.
I also see a lot of parents inquiring about CI. (some of who have kids who are just audilogically hoh)Plus the way that the CI is marketed, makes it sound like it's the latest most advanced hearing health solution. The way that its marketed isn't snake oil salesman style......However, it does kind of subtly imply that CI is always better then hearing aids for EVERYONE. It would take too long to dissect the adversting methodologies. This post would look like a doctoral disseration by the time I was through.Many of the marketing tatics seem straight out of "latest technology is best" school of marketing.
There is a sector of people who feel they ALWAYS have to have the latest gizmo. As a matter of fact the Auditory-Verbal approach requires that the kid always has to have the latest hearing technology. (whether it be ha or CI)
I've experianced some of the marketing tatics. ...like for example one time someone IMd me out of the clear blue sky and started a spiel about how I should go for CI.
Then again.....perhaps the "latest gizmo" types simply represent a small number of people. Like people who are relatively rich and have VERY generous health insurance. Even many middle class people can't count on good health insurance any more. However, the folks who "need" the latest hearing technology ARE out there.
 
LadySekhmet said:
I
Maybe that can help a little bit? I just wished there was some way that audis can realize that booths and rooms does not make up for what you hear in the real world.
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This is one area where my audi is great. She will program the device to my liking, if there are background noises that I perfer not to hear she will go in and change some setting that her mentor would tell her not to change because one needs to hear that. No one does not. It's probably why I only test in the mid 80's in the booth. But I'm very happy with what I do hear in the real world so it doesn't bother me that I 'may' be missing something. I do need to make an appointment for a mapping tho, it's been awhile and I can tell one is needed. :)

I guess I just want to say talk to your audi maybe you can get hearing more to YOUR liking and not what the audi 'thinks' it should be.
 
Hear Again said:
Another strange experience I have is of sound seeming to come from the right side of my head (instead of being centered) if that makes any sense.
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Yes I have same thing, I'm not bilateral though but my right ear is dominant (and still is!) so my CI on left ear always seem to feel like its centered and feel like its working for both ear and on some occassion I got this sensation of right ear trying so hard to hear out of right ear instead of using my left ear that it make up phantom but realistic sounds its annoying!

And ladysekhmet
I decided not to go bilateral in any time soon in the future because of my new issue with CI and few sound hurting my cochlea and leave auditory headache from overstimulation. So I'm waiting for new mapping to see if that help because I'm 90% positive its the map because I never have that problem until now. And number 2 is I still hate the way heavy metal and rock music sound with CI plus they hurt my ear and I can't hear the low frequency only feel them or sometimes hear in right ear if I turn my CI down quiet enough or off so I can turn up music to enjoy it
So I want to wait for new electrode array that goes in the deepest part of the cochlea.
Also I'm worried if I get my right ear implanted it will ruin my left ear progress like hearing aid did to me when I was kid it completely pushed my left ear away and use only right ear for sound and it became usless so I want it to become dominant before get right ear implanted it might won't be until 5-15 years though.

Sorry for long post!
 
SkullChick said:
Yes I have same thing, I'm not bilateral though but my right ear is dominant (and still is!) so my CI on left ear always seem to feel like its centered and feel like its working for both ear and on some occassion I got this sensation of right ear trying so hard to hear out of right ear instead of using my left ear that it make up phantom but realistic sounds its annoying!

And ladysekhmet
I decided not to go bilateral in any time soon in the future because of my new issue with CI and few sound hurting my cochlea and leave auditory headache from overstimulation. So I'm waiting for new mapping to see if that help because I'm 90% positive its the map because I never have that problem until now. And number 2 is I still hate the way heavy metal and rock music sound with CI plus they hurt my ear and I can't hear the low frequency only feel them or sometimes hear in right ear if I turn my CI down quiet enough or off so I can turn up music to enjoy it
So I want to wait for new electrode array that goes in the deepest part of the cochlea.
Also I'm worried if I get my right ear implanted it will ruin my left ear progress like hearing aid did to me when I was kid it completely pushed my left ear away and use only right ear for sound and it became usless so I want it to become dominant before get right ear implanted it might won't be until 5-15 years though.

Sorry for long post!
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Hey Skullchick - That's a valid reason why you don't want to rush into getting a second CI. Even though I'm 4 months post activation with my left, there's still a LOT of room to grow. There *are* certain music that sounds yucky, harsh and stuff (and that does include heavy metal). I don't listen to those music, so when I do listen to ballads or Reba, I pick out the sounds that I don't like, and I know what it's supposed to sound like, I tell my audi and she adjusts it accordingly. It takes time to adjust everything perfectly. Having said that, heavy metal music is very very tough to work with because of all the beats, vocals, etc.

You said that you depended on your right ear right? Well, so do I. I was told by my audiologist that sometimes the BETTER ear that has been better stimulated is actually better ear for implantation. It's just suggested that the worse ear is implanted because of loss of residual hearing (not in my case!), and in case if the person hate it so much, they have the other ear to use. So, I have a bit of suspicions that if you got implanted in your right (regardless of what technology you use and when), you will benefit from it more than your left.

I decided to go bilateral primarily because everything sounded just so much better with my left, and everything sounded normal, just as if I wore powerful hearing aids with high frequencies. Plus, I just felt better having the surgery close to my first one so I can "kill two birds with one stone" regarding to training, and mapping and stuff like that.

Wish you best of luck in the future! :)
 
Skullchick, that's awesome that you're holding off on bilteral implants.
I think really what I'm against isn't bilateral implants per se. More like always assuming that bilateral implants are always going to be THE BEST thing for everyone. Unless someone has auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs, they should get one implant first, then see how it works for them.
I'm just against simutanious bilateral implants for the majority of the potential implantee population. Make sense now? I mean history has shown that it's very hit or miss. There are people who decide to get a second implant, BUT there are still people for whom a bimodal approach works well too.
 
deafdyke said:
Skullchick, that's awesome that you're holding off on bilteral implants.
I think really what I'm against isn't bilateral implants per se. More like always assuming that bilateral implants are always going to be THE BEST thing for everyone. Unless someone has auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs, they should get one implant first, then see how it works for them.
I'm just against simutanious bilateral implants for the majority of the potential implantee population. Make sense now? I mean history has shown that it's very hit or miss. There are people who decide to get a second implant, BUT there are still people for whom a bimodal approach works well too.
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I don't do hit or miss! I did simultaneous bilateral implants because it was the best for me. I wore two hearing aids so it made sense to have two cochlear implants. DD you keep repeating the same information. There is appr 1300 in the world with bilateral implants even less with simultaneous implants. Those of us who do have it done, I believe have been well informed of the situation. My doctor is very knowledgeable. Matter of fact he is working on research to cut the surgery time in half on cochlear implants. I knew very well what this surgery could do and what it has done.
 
deafdyke said:
Skullchick, that's awesome that you're holding off on bilteral implants.
I think really what I'm against isn't bilateral implants per se. More like always assuming that bilateral implants are always going to be THE BEST thing for everyone. Unless someone has auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs, they should get one implant first, then see how it works for them.
I'm just against simutanious bilateral implants for the majority of the potential implantee population. Make sense now? I mean history has shown that it's very hit or miss. There are people who decide to get a second implant, BUT there are still people for whom a bimodal approach works well too.
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You don't know what you are talking about, and you sound like a broken record. :roll:

And since you do not have a CI, you are not qualified to talk about what you think you know about CIs. You know absolutely NOTHING. :roll:
 
deafdyke said:
Skullchick, that's awesome that you're holding off on bilteral implants.
I think really what I'm against isn't bilateral implants per se. More like always assuming that bilateral implants are always going to be THE BEST thing for everyone. Unless someone has auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs, they should get one implant first, then see how it works for them.
I'm just against simutanious bilateral implants for the majority of the potential implantee population. Make sense now? I mean history has shown that it's very hit or miss. There are people who decide to get a second implant, BUT there are still people for whom a bimodal approach works well too.
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Can you please back up as to why you think it's okay for people with auditory neuropathy to get simultaneous CIs when studies have shown that they have more variable results with CIs than the general CI population? Also, I've told you this before, there has been reports of very young children with auditory neuropathy having their hearing issues clear up with age.

The advice you are giving is worrying. That's why it's best just to encourage people who are thinking about bilateral to seek an evaluation with a qualified specialist at a reputable clinic if they are thinking of going bilateral and also to talk to those of us who have done it. And don't worry - most clinics are qualified to fit hearing aids and will trial people as a matter of course and will screen out the "I don't need it but I've gotta have the latest gadget" types.
 
LuciaDisturbed said:
You don't know what you are talking about, and you sound like a broken record. :roll:

And since you do not have a CI, you are not qualified to talk about what you think you know about CIs. You know absolutely NOTHING. :roll:
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Sadly, I have to agree.

I don't know that much, either, but at least I admit I have limited knowledge.
 
R2D2 said:
Can you please back up as to why you think it's okay for people with auditory neuropathy to get simultaneous CIs when studies have shown that they have more variable results with CIs than the general CI population? Also, I've told you this before, there has been reports of very young children with auditory neuropathy having their hearing issues clear up with age.

The advice you are giving is worrying. That's why it's best just to encourage people who are thinking about bilateral to seek an evaluation with a qualified specialist at a reputable clinic if they are thinking of going bilateral and also to talk to those of us who have done it. And don't worry - most clinics are qualified to fit hearing aids and will trial people as a matter of course and will screen out the "I don't need it but I've gotta have the latest gadget" types.
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:gpost:

Your post was spot on!
 
deafdyke said:
Skullchick, that's awesome that you're holding off on bilteral implants.
I think really what I'm against isn't bilateral implants per se. More like always assuming that bilateral implants are always going to be THE BEST thing for everyone. Unless someone has auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs, they should get one implant first, then see how it works for them.
I'm just against simutanious bilateral implants for the majority of the potential implantee population. Make sense now? I mean history has shown that it's very hit or miss. There are people who decide to get a second implant, BUT there are still people for whom a bimodal approach works well too.
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When I got my first HA in the early 70's it was thought that using only one was ok. I did have bi lateral hearing loss. I think it was in the early 90's that I finally got bi lateral HA's. And yes what the audi. told me was true, it never worked as well as the amplyfied ear, she was actually doubtfull that I would get much out of the 2nd one at all.

Now more people are getting bi lateral CI's. It wouldn't suprise me if they don't start offering them in a few years just because the human ear is made to use both sides. and when enough people have had the devices and testing shows they do much better with 2, then simultaneous implantation will be offered, just because the actual surgical costs will be lower with just paying for a surgical team and OR once.

And why you insist that bi lateral only be offered for "auditory nereopathy, or other unusual needs" and not everyone who has bilateral loss that qualifies is beyond me. What a person gets from direct cochlea stimulation compared to a HA is really not the same. I'd rather be hoh with the CI.
 
What a person gets from direct cochlea stimulation compared to a HA is really not the same. I'd rather be hoh with the CI.
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jag, you just proved my point! There are people out there with WORSE losses then yours who are very good hearing aid users. You guys are missing the point that it's very difficult to tell how well someone will respond to more tradtional hearing technology. If the person has consistantly demonstrated that they don't respond well to HA or other kinds of amplification.............FINE. Get them implanted. However, most of the posters who are criticizing me are GUILTY of assuming that bilateral CI is ALWAYS the best.
All I'm saying is that people are very indivdual. Bilateral CI is good for SOME people, but other people may be perfectly satisfied with bimodal.
That's all..........
and yes, I know that some kids outgrow AN. That's good. That's actually why I think that kids with AN should wait a bit to be implanted. However, if its clear and obvious that they have AN, they should automaticly get bilateral implants....without even the HA trial!
 
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