Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

rick48 said:
That is why it is important for parents to closely examine the schools and educational setting that they are choosing for their children.
Rick
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Rick - Absolutely! Parents need to be aware of the achievement testing scores of schools and compare them.
 
Cloggy said:
Lotte is moving on fast, catching up every day.
Lately her sentences became longer, more clear. Discovered rhymes, and more and more singing. Putting on CD's by herself (as in her own choice) with songs and/or stories..
Also writing new words is getting more and more her attention. She can write all the names she knows, but that's just remembering the order of the characters. Now she starts to figure out how to write words she hears.
It's a great adventure.!!

Last week she was at the 1-year control in Oslo, where they checked her equipment and tested her for hearing, sound discrimination, sentences etc.
They skipped the usual tests because allready last year she showed she had no problem with these. So, in order not to waist time (and attention from Lotte) they went straight to the "advanced" tests. She did great.

Some days ago, we had friends visiting us that we hadn't seen for almost a year, and when these kind of visits happen, people are amazed about how well they can understand her now, compared to a year ago. For us, it's a confirmation that she improves. Sometimes, improvements are so slow (like with any child growing up) that we don't notice, and it takes "outsiders" to give a sort of reality-check.
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Cloggy - Fantastic!
 
rick48 said:
If you do not think there is a correlation between low literacy rates, lack of a college education and lower income, go right ahead, whatever floats your boat.

Likewise, if you think that mainstream education is the direct cause of the low literacy levels amongst the deaf, go right ahead.
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I said it wasn't indicated in the research posted by Kaitlin. And that correaltion applies across the board to the whole population, not just deaf. The point here is, deaf individuals--even those with advanced college degrees, are underemployed at a greater rate than their hearing counterparts. It has nothing to do with education, it has to do with societal attitudes toward deafness. The correlation being addressed here is the correlation between being deaf and lower income, lower literacy rates, and lowered graduation from post secondary education.

Since the majority of deaf students are mainstreamed, and the push for mainstream placement has not done anything to improve literacy rates (in fact, rates have continued to fall since the push for mainstream placement), how is it that mainstream placement for deaf students cannot be responsible to some degree. Students are being graduated from public school systems with a 4th grade reading level. How is it they are graduating with a 4th grade reading level if they are being properly educated?
 
Kaitin said:
Hi, Rick.

I highlight the ci program because it is not nonprofit organization or research science and has financial interest (profit from ci surgery). I can't remember the source but in the past I warn about statistics from another place with financial interest and not nonprofit or research I think. Nothing about ci really, just not nonprofit or research so people should know IMO. :)
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Exactly. You learned your lessons well, Kaitlin.
 
loml said:
Rick - Absolutely! Parents need to be aware of the achievement testing scores of schools and compare them.
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And they also need to be aware of things such as percentages of students attending a post-secondary educational facility, especially in terms of students with disabilities when looking at public schools. They also need to know which students have been exempted (usually students under IEPs) from mandatory achievement tests in order to inflate the improvement scores under NCLB. Children with disabilites are generally under represented in test scores. Likewise, test scores are not always representative of a child's actual learning. It indicates that they have been taught to take a test, not that they have actually learned information that will be retained and built upon. Its a matter of rote memorization vs. critical thinking. Rote memorization produces a decent test score. Internalization of that information and an ability to think critically results in a well educated student. High tests scores give a false sense of security in the quality of the education.
 
loml said:
Kaitin - What do you mean exactly by "in the past I warn about statistics"?
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In a old thread I quote statistics and warn about these also because they were not from a nonprofit organization or research scientist and instead from something with financial interest.......I think but I can't remember because sometimes I type a reply and then delete to avoid giving more pain to read. :P

Sorry if before I was unclear. :)

Edit: I don't mean the statistics from these are bad but you need to know about financial interest with research. Probably I should say this more in my first reply. Sorry.
 
jillio said:
Students are being graduated from public school systems with a 4th grade reading level. How is it they are graduating with a 4th grade reading level if they are being properly educated?
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I am concerned about those hearing students graduating from public schools reading at the 4th grade level, aren't you?

Students are also being graduated from the deaf schools with 4th grade reading levels or less, so how is that happening? What does that say about the education being provided in those schools? Or does that not bother you because it relates to deaf schools?
 
rick48 said:
If you do not think there is a correlation between low literacy rates, lack of a college education and lower income, go right ahead, whatever floats your boat.

Likewise, if you think that mainstream education is the direct cause of the low literacy levels amongst the deaf, go right ahead.
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Mainstream education is the cause of all low levels of literacy!
The US ranks nearly last educationally of the industrialized nations!
Hearing or Deaf, it doesn't matter. Except that you could argue
that Deaf children are smarter than hearing children,
reading on average at 3rd and 4th
grade levels in a SECONDlanguage! Our US kids read at that
level graduating high school. If they are lucky!Its why I homeschool!
 
rick48 said:
I am concerned about those hearing students graduating from public schools reading at the 4th grade level, aren't you?

Students are also being graduated from the deaf schools with 4th grade reading levels or less, so how is that happening? What does that say about the education being provided in those schools? Or does that not bother you because it relates to deaf schools?
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Those students graduating from deaf schools with the lowered literacy rates are those that were mainstreamed orally early in their educational career, have parents and families that don;t sign, and as a result of their early lignuistic environment, are language delayed to the point that cognitive development has been negatively affected. In fact,the deaf schools actually graduate students with higher reading comprehension than do the public schools.

We aren't discussing hearing students, we are discussing deaf students. And you cannot get around the fact that the majority of deaf students attend a mainstream public school, and literacy rates continue to fall under these circumstances. If the public school system was capable of providing a superior education to these students, as you claim, why is it that the literacy rates for deaf students, the number of students attending post secondary education, and the reading comprehension scores for deaf students in the mainstream have not skyrocketed over the last 20 years?
 
fredfam1 said:
Mainstream education is the cause of all low levels of literacy!
The US ranks nearly last educationally of the industrialized nations!
Hearing or Deaf, it doesn't matter. Except that you could argue
that Deaf children are smarter than hearing children,
reading on average at 3rd and 4th
grade levels in a SECONDlanguage! Our US kids read at that
level graduating high school. If they are lucky!Its why I homeschool!
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:gpost:
 
Kaitin said:
In a old thread I quote statistics and warn about these also because they were not from a nonprofit organization or research scientist and instead from something with financial interest.......I think but I can't remember because sometimes I type a reply and then delete to avoid giving more pain to read. :P

Sorry if before I was unclear. :)

Edit: I don't mean the statistics from these are bad but you need to know about financial interest with research. Probably I should say this more in my first reply. Sorry.
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Kaitin - You do not need to be sorry. :)

Post how and what YOU want.
 
fredfam1
Except that you could argue
that Deaf children are smarter than hearing children,
reading on average at 3rd and 4th
grade levels in a SECONDlanguage!
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Fredfam1- I agree that the education system is not meeting the needs of many minority children. I do not agree with your above statement. Look for books by Tom Bertling.
 
loml said:
Kaitin - You do not need to be sorry. :)

Post how and what YOU want.
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:ty: Loml but my first reply didn't say "I don't mean the statistics from these are bad but you need to know about financial interest with research." With CI so hot everyone should pick words very carefully and explain completely and with the first I didn't.
 
Kaitin - Find for yourself what you think is important, not what other people may tell you.
 
loml said:
Kaitin - Find for yourself what you think is important, not what other people may tell you.
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:ty: Loml I have 100% agreement so I do know what I think is important. Also I try not to fight or get offense about post on the internet but this is hard sometimes.
 
Look for books by Tom Bertling.
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Yeah, BIASED memoirs by a postlingal who is still very angry at the fact that he is deaf, so he has to attack Deaf culture. His books are really biased. I remember when he used to post over at DumbNotes......Yes, his experiances were different then mine...........but a lot of what he claims/says is.........like those conservatives who claim things are the truth, based on discredited studies or whatever.
 
jillio said:
..............
What's the matter, cloggy? Sour grapes? I'm really sorry that you seem to be so threatened by the fact that the reserch supports the knowledge I have gained over the past 20 years. You might be able to catch up someday....if you start now and work hard!
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20 years of experience and you still get it all wrong...
No sour grapes, not feeling threatened, and absolutely no desire to get stuck in 20-year old information when technology is changing now!

jillio said:
..............Oh, and have you read the thread "Oh, you speak so well, and other annoying comments?"
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No, where...???

jillio said:
..............
Or are you not interested in the viewpoint of those who actually are deaf?
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Sure I am!
 
Cloggy said:
20 years of experience and you still get it all wrong...
No sour grapes, not feeling threatened, and absolutely no desire to get stuck in 20-year old information when technology is changing now!

No, where...???

Sure I am!
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Technology may be changing, but the undereducation of deaf children is not. Technology has not served to improve the situation much at all, other than improving the way that some deaf children are able to perceive sound. However, as that is not the totality of the issues faced by deaf children, we aren't seeing any improvement in the education, the employment, or the social attitudes. Things are still being viewed from an ethnocentric perspective, and that is the biggest obstacles to the deaf indivudal.

And that 20 years is cumulative knowledge, not knowledge gained 20 years ago and not updated. Which provides me a historical perspective that you, in your novice quest for knowledge and your limited perspective, do not have.

The thread is in Deaf Culture. It has been there for months. It would seem that if you were truly interested in the Deaf/deaf perspective and had the desire to learn from the experience of those who have lived the life, you would have found it by now. But you have to get outside the CI forum and actually see what the deaf members of this board are saying.
 
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