$100 laptop

[Neo]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop

 

[sequoias]

Ah that's what they use in developing countries with no electricity or something.

 

[Y]

Aw, thats awesome !! It looks very good/tempting...

 

[VamPyroX]

Yikes... Linux!

 

[Neo]

Yikes... Linux!

What's wrong with linux?

 

[Yiffzer]

95% of the computer users in this world use Windows and a large percentage know and understand only Windows. Linux is widely unknown. The initial development of Linux was complicated and definitely not mainstreamed. Until Linux becomes simpler, intuitive, and established under one icon/company will then people recognize it and accept it.

Of course, what does this have to do with the laptop? As long as the Linux distro on the laptop is actually simple and intuitive enough for foreigners to understand it, it will become a resounding success for sure.

-J.

 

[sequoias]

95% of the computer users in this world use Windows and a large percentage know and understand only Windows. Linux is widely unknown. The initial development of Linux was complicated and definitely not mainstreamed. Until Linux becomes simpler, intuitive, and established under one icon/company will then people recognize it and accept it.
-J.

I disagree. NO one knows exactly how many people in the world use Mac, Windows or other UNIX varieties. Sorry to say. 95 percent is just a wild guess, not accurate.

 

[Yiffzer]

I disagree. NO one knows exactly how many people in the world use Mac, Windows or other UNIX varieties. Sorry to say. 95 percent is just a wild guess, not accurate.

It's not exact, of course but it is a range that's actually documented in 2000 by a reliable independent source. I don't have the source anymore though. Thanks for reminding me though because I now remember the number is 92% in 2003-2004 by a source from Yahoo. The number keeps sinking slowly. It's safe to say it's still above the 90% area.

-J.

 

[sequoias]

It's not exact, of course but it is a range that's actually documented in 2000 by a reliable independent source. I don't have the source anymore though. Thanks for reminding me though because I now remember the number is 92% in 2003-2004 by a source from Yahoo. The number keeps sinking slowly. It's safe to say it's still above the 90% area.

-J.

Yeah, something like that. I think it's roughly 85 percent of the world use Windows, 5 percent or so use different kinds of UNIX, and 10 percent using Mac. That includes the people who use used computers, new computers, etc. The stats are just the marketshare of what they sell right now, I believe.

 

[Yiffzer]

Yeah, something like that. I think it's roughly 85 percent of the world use Windows, 5 percent or so use different kinds of UNIX, and 10 percent using Mac. That includes the people who use used computers, new computers, etc. The stats are just the marketshare of what they sell right now, I believe.

10% use Mac's? To be honest, I'm shocked to see it go that high.

-J.

 

[RacerFox22]

What's wrong with linux?

Hey can u help me out with LINUX I want experince with LINUX i heard it's a good operating..

 

[sequoias]

10% use Mac's? To be honest, I'm shocked to see it go that high.

-J.

I'm not shocked about it. Remember, there are 3rd world countries that use older computers, so that's why it's the roughly estimate. Majority of the businesses use PCs, mostly in offices and networking. The majority of the Macs used in filming and computer generated imaging, that includes SGI and SUN.

 

[sr171soars]

Hey can u help me out with LINUX I want experince with LINUX i heard it's a good operating..

If you want to explore what Linux is all about. Get a LiveCD disk (Knoppix or Mepis) give it a shot. To run the thing, take the CD put it in your PC and boot up on it and it will be a working system. It doesn't effect your disk drive or your current operating system. Nice way to learn all about it.

Also, simply google linux and you will see a ton of resources. You can google "Linux Forums" which will give you a good place to start.

 

[sr171soars]

What's wrong with linux?

Indeed, a great question!

Current laptop setup...dual boot
Windoze (XP)
SuSE 10.0
Mepis

 

[Yiffzer]

Hey can u help me out with LINUX I want experince with LINUX i heard it's a good operating..

http://www.linuxiso.org/

Go there and download any of them and mess around with it. That way you'll learn quite a bit. I recommend Fedora, Ubuntu, Knoppix, Debian, etc... They're all different and have various difficulty modes and really educational. If you want to go into the toughest Linux distro to use (that can be stretched to a wide amount of flexibility and customization), then use Gentoo, but be prepared to be stumped for hours upon installing just the OS.

That's why they say... RTFM! Read The Fucking Manual.

-J.

 

[Yiffzer]

I'm not shocked about it. Remember, there are 3rd world countries that use older computers, so that's why it's the roughly estimate. Majority of the businesses use PCs, mostly in offices and networking. The majority of the Macs used in filming and computer generated imaging, that includes SGI and SUN.

I can agree with the Mac's being mostly used in the arts department. Until recently, AMD processors has become more and more accepted into the world of arts. Opteron and Athlon CPU's have been getting "praise" from some top artists (producers, editors, animators, etc.). I've been seeing that in the news, at least. Whether it's PR marketing or not, I can tell it definitely impacted Apple where they thought they slumped from the competition. Their shift into the iPod market and other markets was an direct (or indirect) influence because of that.

Because of that (and many other examples), Mac's have been losing ground since _insert year_ and it's hardly going to stop. But as long as there is a community that supports Apple, they won't stop.

That is the reason why I would expect a lower number for Mac statistics.

I'm am not biased. I am neither for or against Apple. I respect every company's products, history, and stance in today's market.

-J.

 

[Teresh]

95% of the computer users in this world use Windows and a large percentage know and understand only Windows. Linux is widely unknown.

A. Untrue. A lot of people use Linux and don't even know it. Remember that 45% of Japanese smartphones are running on Linux, only 5% on Windows. Linux also powers a number of PDAs, as well as many other environments in which Windows would be impossible (refridgerators? yup, there are Linux refridgerators). And in developing countries, Linux is king. Windows is $200 in the US, and that's a lot of money. In second and third world nations, $200 could be several YEARS of pay. Linux is free. If the person can afford a computer at all (or has a goverment subsidy to buy one, such as in a library), they will almost always use Linux. Linux is much more prevalent than you'd like to believe it is... There are more Linux computers in the world than Windows computers when you count the embedded market and think outside of just the US, Canada and Europe. I'd say that at least 30% of people who use computers regularly have used Linux before, whether they've been aware of it or not.

B. Linux is not widely unknown, that is just Microsoft FUD. Linux is something that I'd say most people have heard of, even if they've never themselves used it.

The initial development of Linux was complicated and definitely not mainstreamed.

Software development isn't a mainstream thing. You need to be hyperational and significantly intelligent to be able to write software. Saying that software development was not mainstream is obvious--and that goes for ANY type of software, operating systems or otherwise. If anything, Linux and other Free Software operating system projects are *more* mainstream than anything else because anyone who wants to can participate, whereas with Windows you can only participate if you're a Microsoft employee and if you try to participate and are not an employee you're bound to find a subpoena in your mailbox.

Until Linux becomes simpler, intuitive, and established under one icon/company will then people recognize it and accept it.

Never going to happen as that would violate the principles of Free Software. That said, there are a number of distributions that have emerged as dominant. There are over 400 distros out there, but why is it that we only hear about 8 or so of them (Mandriva, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, SuSE, Fedora Core, Linspire and Slackware)? Survival of the fittest is at work with the distro watch. The best are the ones which are most talked about, the rest are pretty much ignored.

Having a Linux 'company' that attempts to make one way the absolute standard violates the principle of freedom (and under the terms of the GPL, would actually be *illegal*). Linux comes in whatever flavour to you tastes best. Windows is just the same cold turkey over and over again. Operating systems should be something you want to use, rather than something you want to delete. Saying that Linux is hard to use or unintuitive is just plain wrong. Linux is *far* easier to use than, say, Windows. I know of a person whose Windows installation kept crashing and my friend installed Ubuntu on their system and they haven't had a problem since. That was four years ago. His dad (who thought their computer was a Mac) was able to update their printer driver successfully even though he didn't know what he was doing. Try doing that in Windows--You'll get BSODed every thirty seconds, as that's the Windows Genuine Advantage.

Of course, what does this have to do with the laptop? As long as the Linux distro on the laptop is actually simple and intuitive enough for foreigners to understand it, it will become a resounding success for sure.

Simple enough for the average toaster to understand. Windows is actually very hard for non-anglophones to use because Windows has very weak i18n. Linux has had i18n since the beginning as people could modify it to use their native language. Whenever a bilingual person signed on to translate, for free, suddenly a whole new country was able to understand it. Linux is available in every language used on earth, whereas Windows is only available in 20 or 30.

Is Windows available in written ASL? I think not.

 

[sequoias]

I can agree with the Mac's being mostly used in the arts department. Until recently, AMD processors has become more and more accepted into the world of arts. Opteron and Athlon CPU's have been getting "praise" from some top artists (producers, editors, animators, etc.). I've been seeing that in the news, at least. Whether it's PR marketing or not, I can tell it definitely impacted Apple where they thought they slumped from the competition. Their shift into the iPod market and other markets was an direct (or indirect) influence because of that.

Because of that (and many other examples), Mac's have been losing ground since _insert year_ and it's hardly going to stop. But as long as there is a community that supports Apple, they won't stop.

That is the reason why I would expect a lower number for Mac statistics.

I'm am not biased. I am neither for or against Apple. I respect every company's products, history, and stance in today's market.

-J.

That's a good point there. Yeah, the ipods have been selling like crazy so they own the MP3 player markets. The Macs have a niche market so they won't go away, they always have the customers who will use one (like me) and many others, too. The new Macs that just released now have Intel duo core processor (Intel Yonah). It's pretty fast processor, too!

 

[Yiffzer]

Thanks for a pretty long reply (as it seems like you always do in every post ). I believe you misunderstood me a little bit so I should explain myself more clearly.

A lot of people use Linux and don't even know it. Remember that 45% of Japanese smartphones are running on Linux, only 5% on Windows. Linux also powers a number of PDAs, as well as many other environments in which Windows would be impossible (refridgerators? yup, there are Linux refridgerators).

Since this topic was about desktop computers, I talked about Linux/Windows in regards of desktop computers. I didn't mean to hint that Windows owns the world, which would be an absurd idea. To what I remember (which may be old information - year '00 to '04), Windows was the most prevalent OS in the world. Until recently (this is where I begin to agree with you), when China and other third world countries was faced with issues on how to establish a networked country, came in the world of Linux.

Right now, Linux is becoming more prevalent and this is why I said in another post that the percentage of Windows being used is dropping. So yes, right now in the third world countries, Linux would be king. This has been only recent.

Neo asked what was wrong with Linux - I simply provided another perspective. I have Linux myself using Knoppix for hacking purposes, Ubuntu for main work purposes, and Gentoo for a learning experience. I'm not against Linux at all.

Linux is not widely unknown, that is just Microsoft FUD.

You assume that I took this fact from Microsoft? I don't think Microsoft even said that. It has nothing to do with Microsoft so please don't flame them. The fact is that in America, a lot of people still don't know what Linux is. Go ahead and ask others and you'll see what kind of answer you get (depends on which demographic/geographic area you're from - you'll get different answers). Among my friends, they would know Linux. But among those of my peers and professors, they are mostly clueless about Linux. But I'm glad to say that the "Linux awareness movement" is catching onto people. My dad now knows what Linux is now since I told him about it.

Software development isn't a mainstream thing. You need to be hyperational and significantly intelligent to be able to write software. Saying that software development was not mainstream is obvious--and that goes for ANY type of software, operating systems or otherwise. If anything, Linux and other Free Software operating system projects are *more* mainstream than anything else because anyone who wants to can participate, whereas with Windows you can only participate if you're a Microsoft employee and if you try to participate and are not an employee you're bound to find a subpoena in your mailbox.

I think you misunderstood me here. I was speaking of how Linux was before rather than now. Of course they aren't complicated now but it was before. It was a slightly niche audience in which only programmers (or geeks - not to generalize) could participate. This is unfortunately still the "image" of Linux - that it's used by and for geeks. This is not true anymore of course as we see Linux being mainstreamed with non-desktop computers now (PDA, phones, etc.). I was merely providing an alternative perspective.

Speaking of mainstreamed, I meant the impact on people's lives, not how people could participate. Since Windows is a huge icon, it also has an effect on our everyday lives (perhaps not yours), it's become mainstreamed. I haven't seen Linux becoming mainstreamed with us yet.

You seem to really dislike Microsoft because of some apparent frustration you had with them in your experience. But not so with me. I have worked with Microsoft employees which some participate in a particular reputational forum that I post in too. We work together very well along with other IT professionals. While we don't directly participate in coding their own software, we do discuss about their software and we implement solutions/suggestions to their system. We also beta test their software as well. I'm surprised you'd go that far to bash Microsoft.

Having a Linux 'company' that attempts to make one way the absolute standard violates the principle of freedom (and under the terms of the GPL, would actually be *illegal*). Linux comes in whatever flavour to you tastes best. Windows is just the same cold turkey over and over again. Operating systems should be something you want to use, rather than something you want to delete.

I never said it had to be a company but it can be an icon. The average uneducated user will never understand (or not want to understand) a "thing" that has no united icon. Linux is something that is divided among communities and we will hardly see an icon other than hear about "Linux". If you have studied how online games thrive and decline, you will be familiar with mods in which they can drastically divide a community altogether. Doing so has a potential to wipe out the community. We have seen this already in the game, Quake 3 and Quake 4. Quake 3 had two competitive mods - one was OSP and the other was CPMA. One claimed to be better than the other but people were either faithful or stubborn to not go to either one. One year later, hardly anyone plays Quake 3. The same situation occurred in Quake 4 - divided communities among mods. In other words, Linux has no business appeal - it can't thrive other than word of mouth and education. It's hard for it to become mainstreamed in my own eyes. I'm not against it from becoming mainstreamed - in fact I want it to be. It would be a nice change for once. But this has been debated to death before and the thing going for Linux is the "free" OS and its implementation in third world countries' technology.

Saying that Linux is hard to use or unintuitive is just plain wrong. Linux is *far* easier to use than, say, Windows. I know of a person whose Windows installation kept crashing and my friend installed Ubuntu on their system and they haven't had a problem since. That was four years ago. His dad (who thought their computer was a Mac) was able to update their printer driver successfully even though he didn't know what he was doing. Try doing that in Windows--You'll get BSODed every thirty seconds, as that's the Windows Genuine Advantage

Again, this was an alternative perspective I provided. I know Linux isn't hard but back in its initial development, it was difficult (for me at least). And the problem is that people can claim it was hard and the people with open ears will decide to stray away. Linux needs to come back and claim that it's easy to use. I agree it's easy to use, especially with Knoppix and Ubuntu (definitely not Gentoo). There's no argument here.

But what's with your dislike towards Microsoft? You claiming that the installation is harder than Linux is silly. The frequent crashes that you experienced is silly as well. The BSOD's after installing printer drivers is really stepping over the line. Are you actually blaming Microsoft for that? It's obvious there are issues with how Windows XP was installed and/or the hardware.

I've had nothing but good experience with Windows XP since I've studied and understood how Windows XP operates. Maybe it's a streak of bad luck for you that it crashes but please don't jump to conclusion to disliking Microsoft. Even though I'm a little more savvy than most when it comes to the core of Windows XP, I still have to argue that Windows XP just works fine.

I mean, I'm sure you've heard of this quote: "99% of computer problems are related to user error."

Simple enough for the average toaster to understand. Windows is actually very hard for non-anglophones to use because Windows has very weak i18n. Linux has had i18n since the beginning as people could modify it to use their native language. Whenever a bilingual person signed on to translate, for free, suddenly a whole new country was able to understand it. Linux is available in every language used on earth, whereas Windows is only available in 20 or 30.

I'll agree with the language portion of Linux. I already knew they had a wide variety of languages since volunteers participate in this. But it's difficult to compare the Windows platform to Linux since Windows is only updated once every few years while Linux is updated very frequently. With economical issues, I'm quite sure Microsoft will want to reach out to their market by adding in extra language support. Microsoft also releases language packs for extra languages in this world. I'm not sure if you knew that - just informing you.

Is Windows available in written ASL? I think not.

I wouldn't even advocate that kind of language - it's not good to educate deaf people that way (depending on how you see it).

-J.

 

[Teresh]

To what I remember (which may be old information - year '00 to '04), Windows was the most prevalent OS in the world. Until recently (this is where I begin to agree with you), when China and other third world countries was faced with issues on how to establish a networked country, came in the world of Linux.

I'd say that China is at least a second-world nation rather than third-world nation, but that's a debate for another time.

The fact is that in America, a lot of people still don't know what Linux is.

My grandparents, who are about as computer-illiterate as one can be, know from reading the newspaper and watching the news on TV that Linux is an operating system. They've never used it, but they, at least vaguely, know what it is. There are many millions of people in the US like my grandparents. They may not have personal experience with it, but a *huge* number of Americans have heard of it.

Since Windows is a huge icon, it also has an effect on our everyday lives (perhaps not yours), it's become mainstreamed. I haven't seen Linux becoming mainstreamed with us yet.

Definately not mine. No Microsoft software on my computer at all. As for the mainstream issue, my company aims to fix that.

You seem to really dislike Microsoft because of some apparent frustration you had with them in your experience. But not so with me. I have worked with Microsoft employees which some participate in a particular reputational forum that I post in too. We work together very well along with other IT professionals. While we don't directly participate in coding their own software, we do discuss about their software and we implement solutions/suggestions to their system. We also beta test their software as well. I'm surprised you'd go that far to bash Microsoft.

What can I say? They produce terrible products for the most part. The fact that I've never had a Windows system that worked right and I've never had a single problem with Linux indicates to me that Windows is not as good as Gentoo. I dislike Microsoft because they claim to be a decent company and yet haven't been able to produce a decent operating system, when their competitors who have a small fraction of money and resources of the money and resources Microsoft has, and are yet still able to produce something 100x better. That says to me that either Microsoft is being run by people who know nothing about business, they don't care about the quality of their product or, worst case scenario, they are actively working to make a bad product.

That and I see them as a competitor to my business, and therefore I hope they die.

In other words, Linux has no business appeal - it can't thrive other than word of mouth and education. It's hard for it to become mainstreamed in my own eyes.

I disagree. Companies like Red Hat and Novell sell products that use Linux. As their market shares grow, they cut into the Windows market share. They're not advertising enough, and that's probably the biggest problem.

Linux needs to come back and claim that it's easy to use. I agree it's easy to use, especially with Knoppix and Ubuntu (definitely not Gentoo).

Linux isn't a company. The community claims otherwise, but when much of the mainstream press is on Microsoft's payroll, how many of them are going to publish something positive about Linux? Linux does come back and say it's easy to use. No one publishes it because they are getting paid by Microsoft not to.

But what's with your dislike towards Microsoft? You claiming that the installation is harder than Linux is silly.

No, actually, it isn't silly. Most distributions are as easy (or easier) to install as Windows.

The frequent crashes that you experienced is silly as well. The BSOD's after installing printer drivers is really stepping over the line. Are you actually blaming Microsoft for that? It's obvious there are issues with how Windows XP was installed and/or the hardware.

The NT kernel design shouldn't be 'crash if a driver is faulty'. The failure of a kernel module in Linux doesn't bring down other modules or the rest of the kernel--why only in Windows does it work this way? Microsoft didn't write the driver, but they created the driver API and the NT kernel's abstraction layer...and they wrote it such that a faulty driver would crash the system. Their poor design decisions and planning are what I blame them for in that regard.

I've had nothing but good experience with Windows XP since I've studied and understood how Windows XP operates. Maybe it's a streak of bad luck for you that it crashes but please don't jump to conclusion to disliking Microsoft. Even though I'm a little more savvy than most when it comes to the core of Windows XP, I still have to argue that Windows XP just works fine.

I know how Windows works internally. I also know how Linux works internally. I've looked at both systems, and I have to say that without a doubt Linux's system is vastly superior. Granted, I haven't seen the XP source code since it's proprietary EULA, but I have an idea of how it works from the documentation.

I'll agree with the language portion of Linux. I already knew they had a wide variety of languages since volunteers participate in this. But it's difficult to compare the Windows platform to Linux since Windows is only updated once every few years while Linux is updated very frequently. With economical issues, I'm quite sure Microsoft will want to reach out to their market by adding in extra language support. Microsoft also releases language packs for extra languages in this world. I'm not sure if you knew that - just informing you.

Oh, I know. I just think it's stupid that before XP Windows had non-existant i18n. Unicode has been supported in Linux for quite some time... But not in Windows?

And if I want my OS to be in Japanese, I have to buy Windows from Microsoft Japan, I can't just buy a copy from Microsoft America and install a translation patch. With Linux, I can change the native language on the fly... Without reinstalling the OS. I can pop open a menu and in about five minutes have the system's language completely changed.

I wouldn't even advocate that kind of language - it's not good to educate deaf people that way (depending on how you see it).

I disagree, but it's a moot point since I don't know SignWriting myself.