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It seems like naisho's getting at the idea of, "If you were bullied, would you be the same person today if you hadn't been bullied?" And whether you are happy with the person you are or not. I can see what you mean, naiso. I mean, obviously the idea of bullying is never a positive one, but maybe...

Since again you have resorted to arguments that are no better than "You don't know what you're talking about because I say you don't, and I do because I say I do", I will ask you again to please stop assuming things about anyone in this thread. You have no idea what experience or knowledge I...

Well clearly your math must be wrong. That can be argued by all the room for interpretation there is in all of this. :roll: :laugh2: Also, to argue that since 25% are black that 25% of the promotions should be black people just lumps everyone together based on one thing: race. And I don't...

An even distribution of what? Scores? Nothing was said about the distribution of scores on the exam. The only "distribution" that was considered was race. But please, explain to me again how I'm the one that insists on focusing on race as the main issue. If you really can't think of any other...

I have, because it is just as possible that the men who didn't do well weren't as qualified. Not because of their race, not because of their culture, simply because of them as individuals. I would make the exact same argument if only black firefighters had done well. Maybe it's not that the test...

Dr. Strangelove is an awesome movie. Definitely worth watching. :)

But that's exactly what they are.... I mean, respect her for her honesty, fine, but I think it's pretty clear that that's not what they're looking for in pageants. That would be like a politician being totally honest, and then people being surprised when they didn't win. It's a whole system...

Yup, just as I said a few times already, I think that the idea of classifying by race ignores the fact that generally education and how one values education are a result of one's socio-economic status, not race. That's why I pointed out the quote in the article stating that minorities test...

Nope, clearly you don't understand what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that the fact that they did poorly has nothing to do with the fact that they are black. I don't know how to say it any more clearly. You are the one that is concerned with their race. To me, if an individual did poorly on a...

No. No they very clearly were not. If you are going to refuse to actually read the articles or any of the posts written, then I wouldn't consider yourself in a position to state what anyone clearly does or does not understand. The order of events is what is important here, because the...

Maybe you haven't read your own posts, but yes, yes you are. You also assume whatever you want about people, while at the same time telling them not to make assumptions. No, it's not. The actual issue is why the test results were thrown out in the first place, which you have conveniently...

If you don't like the quote, that's not my fault, jillio. That's what he said, not me. And that's exactly why I think this whole case is ridiculous. And if you don't see how simply taking someone's opinion that the test was invalid without any actual knowledge of it yourself is a bad idea...

If you had read my post, you would see how there is absolutely no way that you can say that. None. Unless you have a copy of the test, and a secret history of intense knowledge of firefighting and the important aspects of it, please stop making statements that are clearly false. You want to...

I have already answered this. Obviously nobody would. But you are still arguing nonsensical extreme hypothetical situations. You would jump all over someone who tried to argue that gay marriage will lead to people marrying goats, but you're now using the exact same logic. I said before, I...

We have nothing that states what was in the exam, what types of things needed to be memorized, how important those are to the job, what other knowledge or ability was tested and how important those are, what was in the oral section as opposed to the written, how the test was administered, how it...

No, it didn't. It raised the issue of the city worrying about being sued. Here are a few quotes from the articles: "None of the black firefighters scored well enough for an immediate promotion. As a result, the city threw out the test results." Firefighters Claim Reverse Discrimination - ABC...

You don't seem to be reading the articles very closely. The city didn't throw out the results because they felt the test wasn't reliable, they threw out the results because no black firefighters would have been promoted. Period. When they were then sued by the men who did well and should have...

Exactly how I feel, Chef. These kinds of situations also end up creating more racism. My dad was at a seminar once, and the guy was basically saying that they made some med school entrance exams easier so that they could have a more diverse pool of applicants to choose from. All he could think...

You have no way of knowing what the test checked for. You don't know what was asked, or how the answers were evaluated and interpreted. Again, you are just discounting the exam without knowing anything about it. I'm not supporting anything. I'm not supporting the firefighters complaining on...

That depends on who you talk to. I'm gay, and it doesn't offend me. I know plenty of gay people who get outraged by it, and plenty who simply couldn't care less. Personally, I think it's a waste of time to get so upset about it, for all the reasons I just explained. I also think that if you want...