Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

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Holly said:
Thanks for the welcome Cloggy:), thats a very good point. I think its important to expose our children to languages they may come in contact with. Therefore, if my child was mildly hoh I think it would be in their best interest to learn both oral languages, and probably have one dominant form of sign, whichever one would be most useful in the community. Hopefully they would be around both english and spanish growing up so fewer formal lessons are needed. However, if my child was profoundly hoh/deaf I would say it is up to the family on whether or not they would ever like to communicate with him/her.
Now here's the part where it might get tricky. Since my deaf child was born into a world where two languages are spoken, it might be in their best interest to learn both american sign and spanish sign. It might make it a little easier on the spanish relatives because they can use spanish sign, in which I assume the concepts and words would make more sense to them, and the english speaking or american family members could use american sign. If I had the means I would probably offer to pay for signing classes to all my family members if they wanted. If I didn't have the means I would suggest they do it anyway, it is up to them if they want to communicate with my child.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce both american and spanish sign language to a child who is growing up in both worlds. It could benefit them if they ever went to a spanish speaking country, and because they might run into a spanish deaf person in america who speaks spanish sign.

Depending on the situation I would say that having a dominant sign language (whichever one would be used most frequently in the household and community) might be easiest, but it wouldn't hurt to learn a little of the other one too. Hey at least they could say they know more than one language, a lot of us hearies would kill to be able to say that!

:type:
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So, when the child is profoundly deaf, everybody has to learn signlanguage.??
How is that for the grandparents. Will they be able to learn a new language they don't speak in their own life. How about friends... do they have to learn it as well..?
You are assuming that it's no big deal to learn a new language, but when one is not immersed in it, it is very hard to learn a new language...

So, why not cued speech? This is much easier to learn and use. Why not allow the child to hear.?

Is keeping the child deaf the only possibility for you?
 
Cloggy said:
Holly,
Welcome !
Excellent idea! That's what we did.

Now, imagine. All spanish-speaking family (parents, grandparents, friends) , living fully english speaking part of the USA (friends, school, shops etc..)..
What mode of communication will you choose to make sure your child will be able to communicate with family & grandparents who only speak spanish, but also with the english-speaking friends and family?

Are you going to learn 2 different sign-languages? Make evryone speak sign?
Are you going to stick to 1 sign-language.
Will you make a decision to have your child being able to hear sound, and learn to speak multiple languages?
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That situtation is vastly different from a deaf child's family. That is like comparing oranges with apples.

I like Holly's answer anyway.
 
Buffalo said:
That situtation is vastly different from a deaf child's family. That is like comparing oranges with apples.

I like Holly's answer anyway.
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Holly's answer was fine. Just incomplete.....

And the situation is not different... it is the same problem, just expanded..
 
Cloggy said:
Holly's answer was fine. Just incomplete.....

And the situation is not different... it is the same problem, just expanded..
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No, the spanish kid can hear but the deaf kid can't. The spanish kid get support from his spanish speaking family. The deaf kid might not get much support from his family if his family decided not to sign. It is alot easier for a spanish kid to adapt to english speaking community than a deaf kid to adapt to non-signing community. Big difference.
 
Buffalo said:
No, the spanish kid can hear but the deaf kid can't. The spanish kid get support from his spanish speaking family. The deaf kid might not get much support from his family if his family decided not to sign. It is alot easier for a spanish kid to adapt to english speaking community than a deaf kid to adapt to non-signing community. Big difference.
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Yes, there is a big difference. And also something that seems to be ignored is that it appears to be acceptable to so many that it is the deaf child's responsibility to adapt to the adult parent's way. This is the exact reverse of the way in which a parent/child relationship is meant to function. The parents are obligated to adjust to the child's needs, not the other way around. Even Holly, at age 22, understands that it is incumbent upon the adult to adjust to the child's needs. To expect the child to change in order to meet the needs of both parents, and extended family members who are also adults, such as grandparents and aunts and uncles, puts the child in the adult role, and the adults in the child role. The "its too hard for the whole family to learn sign" is jsut another one of those excuses that simply is not valid.
 
Buffalo said:
No, the spanish kid can hear but the deaf kid can't. The spanish kid get support from his spanish speaking family. The deaf kid might not get much support from his family if his family decided not to sign. It is alot easier for a spanish kid to adapt to english speaking community than a deaf kid to adapt to non-signing community. Big difference.
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I haven't been talking about hearing children..
 
jillio said:
....... And also something that seems to be ignored is that it appears to be acceptable to so many that it is the deaf child's responsibility to adapt to the adult parent's way. This is the exact reverse of the way in which a parent/child relationship is meant to function. The parents are obligated to adjust to the child's needs, not the other way around. .......
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No, the responsibility of the parents is to give their children all the tool available. For you that meant sign language. Also for me, and then we added CI.

The parents will allways adjust to the childs needs, but that does not mean that the parents have to start acting deaf or Deaf. An argument against that is that when adjusting to the child without thinking ahead and focusing on sign, the child is excluded from communication with relatives that are not able to sign, or not able to reach the same level.
By adjusting to the child in that way, the parent will exclude the child from something else.
And yes, that might go both ways. Excluding sign will exclude the child from a signing community...

Just saying.... we are all adjusting to the child's need... just not in the same way....
 
Cloggy said:
No, the responsibility of the parents is to give their children all the tool available. For you that meant sign language. Also for me, and then we added CI.

The parents will allways adjust to the childs needs, but that does not mean that the parents have to start acting deaf or Deaf. An argument against that is that when adjusting to the child without thinking ahead and focusing on sign, the child is excluded from communication with relatives that are not able to sign, or not able to reach the same level.
By adjusting to the child in that way, the parent will exclude the child from something else.
And yes, that might go both ways. Excluding sign will exclude the child from a signing community...

Just saying.... we are all adjusting to the child's need... just not in the same way....
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The child who signs is not excluded from communication with others, but included in a way in which a child in an oral only environment never is. Especially so when sign and speech are both made available for that child in all circumstances.

No one is suggesting that a hearing parent start "acting deaf or Deaf". That is absurd. Empathy does not require imitation. One is only suggesting that the parent adapt to the child's communcation needs, rather than expecting the child to adjust to the parents' communication needs. It is also incumbent upon the parent to provide the child with deaf role models to fulfill that need.
 
jillio said:
The child who signs is not excluded from communication with others, but included in a way in which a child in an oral only environment never is.
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Well OK, just excluded from 90% of the people around who do not know sign then...
jillio said:
Especially so when sign and speech are both made available for that child in all circumstances.
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Now you're talking... You just went up from being able to communicate with 10% to 100%

jillio said:
No one is suggesting that a hearing parent start "acting deaf or Deaf". That is absurd. Empathy does not require imitation. One is only suggesting that the parent adapt to the child's communcation needs, rather than expecting the child to adjust to the parents' communication needs.
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Absolutely! The child and parents will use the means of communication that are available and effective.
jillio said:
It is also incumbent upon the parent to provide the child with deaf role models to fulfill that need. To give an example... with us that was sign at first, then sign and speech and for the last years it has been speech.... Like I said. The child will use the means of communication that works best... guided and followed by the parent.
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Ah, well.... a deaf Deaf person is hardly a rolemodel for a deaf child that can hear. A deaf person with CI is a very good rolemodel...
 
Cloggy said:
Well OK, just excluded from 90% of the people around who do not know sign then... Now you're talking... You just went up from being able to communicate with 10% to 100%

So, then why exclude sign from that child's environment if it increases communication?

Absolutely! The child and parents will use the means of communication that are available and effective.
What is readily available isn't always the most effective. That is where it is incumbent upon the parent to make the necessary adjustments.
Ah, well.... a deaf Deaf person is hardly a rolemodel for a deaf chlild that can hear. A deaf person with CI is a very good rolemodel...
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Why exactly, isn't a deaf person a good role model for a child with a CI? (I am assuming that is what you mean when you say a child that can "hear".)
 
jillio said:
Why exactly, isn't a deaf person a good role model for a child with a CI? (I am assuming that is what you mean when you say a child that can "hear".)
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Of course, depends in what role..... There are lots of ways he/she can be a good rolemodel.....
But I guess we are talking about rolemodel regarding deafnes, regarding not being able to hear...
(Btw I said a deaf Deaf person ...) Because very likely that that person has never heard.... the child has...

(Spelling mistake corrected... thanks JT)
 
Cloggy said:
Of course, depends in what role..... There are lots of ways he/she can be a good rolemodel.....
But I guess we are talking about rolemodel regarding deafnes, regarding not being able to hear...
(Btw I said a dead Deaf person ...) Because very likely that that person has never heard.... the child has...
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No, cloggy, I don't imagine a dead Deaf person has ever heard! :giggle: They could, however, serve as role models in an hiostorical context. But there are those who have been postlingually deafened that identify themselves as Deaf, and they, indeed have heard.
 
jillio said:
No, cloggy, I don't imagine a dead Deaf person has ever heard! :giggle: They could, however, serve as role models in an hiostorical context. But there are those who have been postlingually deafened that identify themselves as Deaf, and they, indeed have heard.
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Corrected... and yeh yeh.... I know.

btw.. "hiostorical" context?? :giggle: I could use that role model. Don't know anything about that...
 
Cloggy said:
Corrected... and yeh yeh.... I know.

btw.. "hiostorical" context?? :giggle: I could use that role model. Don't know anything about that...
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Okay, I corrected my typo too. But you have to admit that the dead Deaf person was much funnier than hoistorical.:giggle:
 
jillio said:
Okay, I corrected my typo too. But you have to admit that the dead Deaf person was much funnier than hoistorical.:giggle:
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You find a dead Deaf person amusing.... I should report you... :giggle:
 
Cloggy said:
So, when the child is profoundly deaf, everybody has to learn signlanguage.??
How is that for the grandparents. Will they be able to learn a new language they don't speak in their own life. How about friends... do they have to learn it as well..?
You are assuming that it's no big deal to learn a new language, but when one is not immersed in it, it is very hard to learn a new language...

So, why not cued speech? This is much easier to learn and use. Why not allow the child to hear.?

Is keeping the child deaf the only possibility for you?
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I'm sorry I led you to believe that keeping the child deaf was the only possibility, in my scenario the child was profoundly deaf and unable to hear much even with a hearing aid.

Why would you assume I don't know how hard it is to learn a new language? I believe I addressed that when I mentioned that the grandparents, first of all, had a choice, and second of all I thought it might be easier for them to learn spanish sign. I know it isn't easy! And I wouldn't expect them to learn it fluently. There is nothing wrong with cued speech but I do find it terrible to assume that a profoundly deaf child should go through life only speaking and reading lips, I am merely suggesting that a more natural form of language can be used as well.
 
Holly said:
I'm sorry I led you to believe that keeping the child deaf was the only possibility, in my scenario the child was profoundly deaf and unable to hear much even with a hearing aid.

Why would you assume I don't know how hard it is to learn a new language? I believe I addressed that when I mentioned that the grandparents, first of all, had a choice, and second of all I thought it might be easier for them to learn spanish sign. I know it isn't easy! And I wouldn't expect them to learn it fluently. There is nothing wrong with cued speech but I do find it terrible to assume that a profoundly deaf child should go through life only speaking and reading lips, I am merely suggesting that a more natural form of language can be used as well.
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Yea...learning any language is hard but in the long run, it will be worth it for the parents and their deaf children.
 
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