Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[shel90]

Cloggy you didn't ask me but I will answer anyway. We have never had an internal problem. We have had wires going down. In our family this is why my husband works the afternoon shift. Someone is always home in case of our childn'r implant going down. The school knows to call us and we were there within 15 minutes. We have one processor go down and it meant that my son was not hearing for about 16 hours 10 of thoses hours he was sleeping.

You had the luxury of either you and your husband being available to take care of the problem. Unfortunately, many families dont have that luxury and as a result, the child is stuck in an environment where communication is practically impossible. At least by being in a signing environment, our students have no worries if their CIs malfunction or breaks down. No time in the educational setting is ever lost simply because of inability to communicate. There is another reason why I strongly believe in the BiBi approach or using both approaches for all deaf/hoh children.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Doesn't that create bias? So if you find research that does not validate your opinion then you just skip it?

Yes that is exactly what she does. I have always said that you can find research to validate almost every point.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Cuz before Jillo made that post, you kept bringing up your son's reading and writing levels and she was just responding that yea, she has seen examples of his writing. That was all. I went back to read it to see if I missed anything negative she said and I realized that she was just responding to your posts regarding your son.

I never mention his writing skills

 

[shel90]

Yes that is exactly what she does. I have always said that you can find research to validate almost every point.

I honestly dont think that is what Kaitin is doing. She is posting research relating to topics that are being discussed here.

How do u know that Kaitin is actually skipping some research on purpose? Did she tell u or did u just make that assumption?

 

[shel90]

I never mention his writing skills

HUH? U mentioned that your son has high literacy skills and then Jillo responded to that by saying that she has seen examples of his writing. Unless writing is not part of literacy skills? Last I heard, it was very much a big part of literacy???

see post #64

That might be the case with some children but that is not case with my children. My son reads at a high 10th grade and he is only in 9th grade. My daughter is in the 11th gade and reads at a high 10th grade level. They have a high literacy rate. They have a very good self image. They have very good communication skills. My daughter is able to communicate both with hearing people and signers. My son can communicate with anybody although his signing skills are not very good, he is able to communicate with signers.

 

[Kaitin]

Doesn't that create bias? So if you find research that does not validate your opinion then you just skip it?

Yes that is exactly what she does. I have always said that you can find research to validate almost every point.

Jackie: If you think you can find research (current, published etc) to validate any point, please provide it. I provide links so others can check my research and use this to find others, even if I don't agree with the opinion. I answered Vallee in a earlier post so I won't answer again.

I try to use research instead of just my experience or my opinion. You seem to only use your opinion or experience with your children so a uncontrolled "study" with no scientific method of 3 or 4 people. No problem to me really, but more bias than any research I post.

 

[shel90]

Jackie: If you think you can find research (current, published etc) to validate any point, please provide it. I provide links so others can check my research and use this to find others, even if I don't agree with the opinion. I answered Vallee in a earlier post so I won't answer again.

I try to use research instead of just my experience or my opinion. You seem to only use your opinion or experience with your children so a uncontrolled "study" with no scientific method of 3 or 4 people. No problem to me really, but more bias than any research I post.[/QUOTE]


Jillo has tried to explain that to her and point that out. Maybe u your explaination will be helpful .

 

[rick48]

Total misreprentation. This was not a case of a terp not showing up. It is a case of the school system refusing to provide a terp, and being taken to due process. Quite a different situation.

Really, a "total misrepresentation"? But yet it was YOU who wrote "If his interpreter was sick and didn't show up, he lost a day of classroom instruction."

For someone who is always lauding over us her "professional" writing skills and commenting upon the writing skills of others such as Jackie's son, that seems an odd way to write that the district failed to provide your son with an interpreter at all.

In reality, who cares, for in my opinion I think you just make it up as you go along and post whatever you think best suits your particular argument du jour.

 

[rick48]

You know I miss Fuzzy!

Me too, let her know that. Hopefully we will see her elsewhere.

 

[rick48]

Rick....
In all your experience of you daughter having CI.... how many times did she have a serious malfunction.?? (Hangovers not included.. )

Everyone has had a wire snap or lost a coil but that is why we have spare parts at home.
I do know a few people who internal failures and all were reimplanted with no problems.
As I mentioned, my daughter was reimplanted in 2001 and it went smoothly. Any questions, let me know Cloggy.
Rick

 

[jag]

Interpreters do sometimes show up late, I'll say 15 minutes late, but they always call to informed the parties in advance. If an interpreter is a no show, It wasn't the interpreter's fault. I'm deaf and you're not Rick, You don't even know how the system works.



If it did happened to her son, it wasn't the fault of the interpreters, it's the fault of the school. the school should always have at least 3 or 4 hired interpreters.

Deaf people are entitled to an interpreter at all appointments, even all interpreters would say that because they know the ADA Law. They know it is important to meet the needs of the deaf.

I found this article which you should read.

Kim Lamb • LVN photo Joy Bergreen-Steiger is one of three sign-language interpreters employed by the Churchill County School District.
"We have to have more classes so we can give equal access to these kids," Frank said. "We cannot continue to send kids to school without any language at all."
Interpreter, education help local deaf student succeed

First I'd like to say that in a perfect world all would be provided with interpetors when needed.

Then even interpetors do not necessarily notify the agency they won't be there. They;re just like the rest of us and some are irresponsible. So it 'could' have been the terps fault.

And while ADA and IDEA state what a person will disablitlies is entitled to it seems that it isn't always going to happen. Sorry but that's just life, some will choose to ignor the law. Some won't be able to comply because there are no interpetors in that area and so on and so forth. And I'm not saying that the deaf aren't entitled to those services, I'm saying that just like the CI the communication barriers can and do exsist at times for those using ASL.

My youngest goes to MSAD (MN) we have had on at least one occasion and intepetor in the meeting that came from about 50+ miles away. Now this is a deaf school in a community that has alot of deaf people in it. And the school had to go outside this city to find an intepetor for this particular meeting? I would think that a city with a large deaf community would have a higher number of intepetors around but evidently not. So if an area with a good sized deaf community sometimes runs short of terps where are smaller schools and communities going to find one on short notice when the one or two in that area are already occupied?

There are positives and negatives to all modes of communication for the deaf/hoh and no amount of law can get an interpetor if there are not any available. Any of us can sue whoever for whatever violation they make to ADA and a judge will probably rule for the deaf or disabled person, but in the case of a deaf person, if the problem was there were no terps available in that area (and none were willing to make the trip at the time needed, and if they are 'freelance' with an agency they can pick and choose) then getting them to fork over the dough isn't going to do much except make the person suing feel they've done something.

There are many options available to the deaf today they range from ASl to CI's. Just as with children with Down Syndrome, there is NO one size fits all approach for educating and raising them.

 

[vallee]

Jackie: If you think you can find research (current, published etc) to validate any point, please provide it. I provide links so others can check my research and use this to find others, even if I don't agree with the opinion. I answered Vallee in a earlier post so I won't answer again.

.

Kaitin,
You know I answered your post as well.

 

[jag]

Such a misinterpretation.... but that's your MO.. willingly misinterpretating other posts..
I'm not comparing hangover and CI-misfunction. I am saying that missing a week due to illness is happening as well.... how do students cope with that?

You might want to ask me, Rick, or any other parent and user of CI how often they have a malfunction that would make the person helpless...

You make it look as if such a failure is common. It is not.
So, before you start spreading nonsense about all sorts of malfunctions... have a look in the real world.....

As for Lotte, she has never had a malfunction with the CI's that stopped all communication and was any sort of problem...

Rick....
In all your experience of you daughter having CI.... how many times did she have a serious malfunction.?? (Hangovers not included.. )

When talking about failures are you all separating hard failures (which i believe are internal) and soft failures? (external parts?) Hard failures are very rare, I believe before my surgery my ENt said they were something like 1 in 10,000.

I dealt with failure of the HA's all the time when growing up. So did my daughter while not fun life happens. A run into the HA place usually got a loaner (crappy HA but workable) to tide us over.

With CI I have 2 processors. ones a backup. That seems to be more common now around here. Perhaps the only ones who don't get 2 here are on some gov. program. If I think of it the next time I go in, which may be months from now I'll ask if the children get one or two. But that to depends on the implant center to some extent I believe.

Cloggy with your daughter being bi lateral I would think that she would only lose hearing in one ear, has she ever lost both processors at the same time? (just curious)

 

[vallee]

Me too, let her know that. Hopefully we will see her elsewhere.

I did, heard from her today. She is doing well just painting and shopping. We don't talk about issues here, we discuss our families and life. She is a very interesting person. I enjoy our e-mails.

 

[shel90]

First I'd like to say that in a perfect world all would be provided with interpetors when needed.

Then even interpetors do not necessarily notify the agency they won't be there. They;re just like the rest of us and some are irresponsible. So it 'could' have been the terps fault.

And while ADA and IDEA state what a person will disablitlies is entitled to it seems that it isn't always going to happen. Sorry but that's just life, some will choose to ignor the law. Some won't be able to comply because there are no interpetors in that area and so on and so forth. And I'm not saying that the deaf aren't entitled to those services, I'm saying that just like the CI the communication barriers can and do exsist at times for those using ASL.

My youngest goes to MSAD (MN) we have had on at least one occasion and intepetor in the meeting that came from about 50+ miles away. Now this is a deaf school in a community that has alot of deaf people in it. And the school had to go outside this city to find an intepetor for this particular meeting? I would think that a city with a large deaf community would have a higher number of intepetors around but evidently not. So if an area with a good sized deaf community sometimes runs short of terps where are smaller schools and communities going to find one on short notice when the one or two in that area are already occupied?

There are positives and negatives to all modes of communication for the deaf/hoh and no amount of law can get an interpetor if there are not any available. Any of us can sue whoever for whatever violation they make to ADA and a judge will probably rule for the deaf or disabled person, but in the case of a deaf person, if the problem was there were no terps available in that area (and none were willing to make the trip at the time needed, and if they are 'freelance' with an agency they can pick and choose) then getting them to fork over the dough isn't going to do much except make the person suing feel they've done something.

There are many options available to the deaf today they range from ASl to CI's. Just as with children with Down Syndrome, there is NO one size fits all approach for educating and raising them.

I was shocked that for the first time, there was no interpreter available to interpret a meeting at my work. The word is that the terps are getting jobs working as VRS (Video Relay Interpretors) cuz the pay is much better.

I just have never known of a situation in my experience of a terp not showing up for a job for no reason. Even with a reason, it is pretty rare as far as I know and I have used terps in many different states.


U say range from ASL to CIs..it seems like there is this idea that because a child gets a CI, there is no need for ASL? I believe in using the ASL approach for both CI and non-CI users. I dont see as much harm in it as there is with using a strictly oral-only approach.

 

[Kaitin]

Kaitin,
You know I answered your post as well.

I know, Vallee. I am glad we don't have to agree 100% and still are friendly. AD is a community even if members disagree if people are polite.

 

[deafdyke]

jackie, c-print or cart.....same difference. they are essentially the same thing, except that with cprint you get a hard copy. second of all, kids who utilize 'terps through an iep, will and do have backup plans in case the 'terp doesn't show up for class. there are 'terp agencies........seriously, your daughter is in the same sittuion as someone who uses a 'terp. why don't you understand that? she is dependant on cart, just like someone who uses a 'terp.
vallee, i think the gross majority of dhh kids should have access to a full toolbox. HOH kids haven't really had amazing acheivement levels. that's prolly b/c historically they were pushed towards the hearing world, and focused exclusively on speech and listening.

U say range from ASL to CIs..it seems like there is this idea that because a child gets a CI, there is no need for ASL?

well, if a ci gave a kid perfect hearing, there'd be no need for asl.....but the thing is, that kids with ci are functionally hoh. they still miss a lot of spoken stuff. especially since not everyone in the world speaks with a 'professional public speaker' voice. Most hearing people when they talk to dhh folks, tend to subconsciously modify their speech patterns to make it easier for dhh folks to understand. i remember when i would return to camp and collegel from extended absenses, i would always have to 'reteach' everyone how to speak to me. however not everyone does that. there are still TONS of people out there with soft voices or really hard to understand accents.
i remember in high school i had a teacher with a very soft voice. even my parents couldn't hear her. yet the school blamed ME for not understanding. If I'd had the abilty to use a 'terp then that situion would not have happened.
hell, my best friend is extremely isolated b/c hardly anyone can understand her b/c although she can talk, her speech is extremely extremely hard to understand.
why is it so fucking hard for the oralists in this thread to understand that we're not sign seperatists.............we are pro FULL TOOLBOX!

 

[Angel]

First I'd like to say that in a perfect world all would be provided with interpetors when needed.

Then even interpetors do not necessarily notify the agency they won't be there. They;re just like the rest of us and some are irresponsible. So it 'could' have been the terps fault.

hmm, how do you really know that the interpreters does not notify the agency that they can not make it, have you ever worked as an interpreter? and how many times have you had an interpreter?..


When my first son was in kindergarden, I found out he was in the school play, I was so excite and wanted to hear him sing but I couldn't so I thought about getting an interpreter so someone could sign the songs that my son was going to sing in the play, I asked the school if they could provide me an interpreter so I could enjoy my son's in his play, at first they said no, and I asked why, she said because I wasn't a deaf student just a parent, so I asked to speak with the principal but she wasn't available at that time so I decide to set up an appointment to meet with her which I did, the next following day, I went to the office, met the principal, and sat inside her office, we talked for an hour, I explained to her about my deafness and what it is like not being able to enjoy my son's singing, not knowing the words in the song etc, she said that there no way they could provide me an interpreter because I was the ONLY deaf parent at my son's school. I understood where she was coming from on this, so I left the office, a couple of weeks later I went to see my son's in his play, I sat there watching him singing, smiling, then he went up to the microphone and said something, I watch the other parents and children laughing,smiling and clapping, I felt so sad inside because I have no clue what my son said, or what words in the song he sang or the name of the music etc. so I decide to do something about this, I fought with the school for 3 years to provide interpreter in music or school play, for those who can enjoy it as well along with the hearing parents too, I'm his mother and I have this right to feel part of my son's school program. finally after 3 years the school board decide to provide interpreters for the deaf parents, for meetings, school plays, music concerts, awards and many more...After my second son enroll in the same school as my first son did, there was more deaf parents at the music concerts, and they told me they were so happy to see an interpreter up on the stage, she said she couldn't believe that the school would provide this service for the deaf parents, It made me feel good inside knowing I did not give up, and I also made those other deaf parents enjoy their children's play as well too...So what I'm saying here, if a parent or a deaf child need an interpreter whether or not they may be the only one, fight don't give up!

 

[jillio]

Doesn't that create bias? So if you find research that does not validate your opinion then you just skip it?

When one is involved in a debate, one does not find support for the opposing side. That is the opposing side's job. That is not bias, and it was not involved inthe actual research process. It is simply finding eveidence to support one's side. Bias in research is quite a different situation altogether.

 

[jillio]

It depends on the child. It also depends on the teacher. I am using my own personal experiences as a child and as a teacher.

What depends ont he child and the teacher?