Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jackiesolorzano]

And it is those successful oral kids who admit that they wish they had been exposed to sign language and the Deaf community too. At least u are exposing your kids to sign language and the Deaf community but not all parents do that. However, that is not my point..my point is about the educational setting for deaf children. If children with CIs can hear so well as u claim then why do they need CART to get full access to information? Not being against CART but it shows that the deaf child is in an environment where all the info in the educational setting is not fully accessible just like it is for hearing children. That is my whole point. Maybe your kids are happy with that ..probably cuz they know they have their deaf friends to go to meet their sense of belonging and that is what I want for ALL deaf children.

You are right my children hear very well but no they do not hear everything and in a classroom with background noise it is harder for them to hear and that is why we have fought for CART and have won with my daughter and if I have to take my son's case to federal court I will.

 

[jillio]

You have never been in our home so you wouldn't know how we teach our children. My children gain language through incidental exposure just like any other hearing child because they hear a lot with their cochlear implants. Once in the summer when my son was 8 years old, my son came to me and said mom you have sad. What I am not sad, no you have sad, what are you talking about. Yes, mom you have soap additive disorder. I was watching a soap opera at the moment. Tell me how did I directly teach my son to say this to me. He picked up completely on his own.

My statement had nothing to do with your children, jackie, but once again, you seem to set the standards for all deaf children based on your two children. That is hardily indicative of the population of deaf chidlren as a whole. And, considering what you have just related int his post regarding an 8 year olds use of language, I would say that the incidental exposure is lacking in the development of not just word usage, but grammar and syntax as well.

 

[shel90]

Shel you are right, I do not hold the entire Deaf community responsible for their believes against raising my children orally. I am just very careful about who I expose them too. You are right there very mean people out there and no I cannot protect them against everyone but I will do everything in my power to protect my children against people like Jillo for her to bring up a couple of posts my son made that did not use perfect grammar that was wrong and mean.
I do expose my children to people that are Deaf and just sign but people that are respectful to my children. There are very kind, understanding, and reasonable Deaf people in our area and these are the people that I help my children seek out.

Not to argue with u but Jillo didnt say anything negative about your son's writing in that post. If she had said "His writing is lousy" then yea it would be negative and judgemental but all I see is that she said she has seen examples of his writing. Maybe she is saying that u are right, his writing is excellent. How do we know unless we ask her?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Who said anything about grading your son's posts? My statement merely said that I have seem examples of his writing. That statement implies nothing; it is very neutral in both content and context. If you feel the need to get so defensive reagrding such a neutral statement, perhaps it is because you yourself see discrepancies between your son's ability to use written English and the claims you yourself make regarding his use of language.

The fact is that a child's informal use of language is more indicative of their true ability to use a language than is their more formal assessments. There is no opportunity for revision and parental and teacher input regarding the necessary corrections to bring substandard use up to age related standards as is eveident with his formally written essays.

What was the purpose of you mention my son's writing skills. I have never mention them. I know what your purpose was even if you will not admit it.

 

[shel90]

You are right my children hear very well but no they do not hear everything and in a classroom with background noise it is harder for them to hear and that is why we have fought for CART and have won with my daughter and if I have to take my son's case to federal court I will.

and hearing children can hearing everything in the classroom so that puts them at an advantage over deaf children. That is my point..If hearing children cant hearing everything in the classroom due to the background noise, then they are just entitled to receive CART services as well.

 

[jillio]

Don't allow a few to pass judgement. I am deaf with bilateral CI. I am also frustrated about the small amount of people who seem so anti-CI or anti-oral, don't allow others to push your son away from the Deaf culture. I hope you son will help others to see that you can be an oral deaf person.

And you are also post lingually deafened, and that is a variable that must be recognized. Additionally, you continually equate opposition to an oral only environment as anti-CI, and your assumption is in error. It does, however, speak volumes about your attitude toward language and hearing, and the ethnocentric persepctive you take toward the deaf student.

 

[jillio]

Does it mean that they can't be successful.

The children that are not successful, your a teacher help them be successful!!!!!

It is unfortunate, indeed, that you and others like you hold teachers of the deaf resposnible for remedicating the delays in these chidlren that you have created. It is indeed much easier to prevent these delays than to correct them. Why should teachers of the deaf be held responsible for the creation of the problem when they in fact, had nothing to do with it? I find your attitude as an educator appalling.

 

[vallee]

That's fine but can u answer my question how is that different from protecting their kids from the Deaf community as a whole just because some people were mean to them? Sure there will be mean people in this world both in the Deaf and hearing communities but to hold a whole community responsible is where they become just as wrong as those who were mean to them. We cant always protect our children from everything that is harmful anyway. That was my point. Yes, I was made fun of and no, I wasnt protected cuz that is a reality of life but them protecting their children from the Deaf community is just plain discrimination against anyone who is involved with the Deaf community.
QUOTE]

I am giving my opinion, I would never speak for others. If parents felt that a sample of the community was negative, bullying, or judging them based on the choice of implants, they I can see how they would say the whole community. Is it right, depends on how hurtful the comments were. If the deaf community wants to include oral deaf or CI children, then make a positive policy. Accept them as they are, and assist parents. Don't judge. That is my opinion.

 

[jillio]

So should they just take the negative comments? Should their children take the abuse and name calling? Should they place them in educational evironments that provides negative teachers or negative comments about their children's CIs? Should they allow their children to be put throught that? They are protecting their children from harm - emotional harm. I agree with them.

Rick, Cloggy, and Jackie - I hope your children exposure the world the positives and negatives of being oral deaf. I for one, enjoy hearing about their progress as well as anything that is not working.

Where exactly are you finding the educators that make negative comments about a child's CI? That is quite an accusation. Making an assessment of a child's language skills is quite different than making a negative comment regarding their CI. Are you so biased that you are unable to see the obvious difference?

 

[vallee]

It is unfortunate, indeed, that you and others like you hold teachers of the deaf resposnible for remedicating the delays in these chidlren that you have created. It is indeed much easier to prevent these delays than to correct them. Why should teachers of the deaf be held responsible for the creation of the problem when they in fact, had nothing to do with it? I find your attitude as an educator appalling.

It is also a shame that parents of CI users and CI users see you as that type of member of the deaf community that is keeping them out.

At least I am trying to make a differences - and you flaming and running others off this site.

 

[Tousi]

That's fine but can u answer my question how is that different from protecting their kids from the Deaf community as a whole just because some people were mean to them? Sure there will be mean people in this world both in the Deaf and hearing communities but to hold a whole community responsible is where they become just as wrong as those who were mean to them. We cant always protect our children from everything that is harmful anyway. That was my point. Yes, I was made fun of and no, I wasnt protected cuz that is a reality of life but them protecting their children from the Deaf community is just plain discrimination against anyone who is involved with the Deaf community.
QUOTE]

I am giving my opinion, I would never speak for others. If parents felt that a sample of the community was negative, bullying, or judging them based on the choice of implants, they I can see how they would say the whole community. Is it right, depends on how hurtful the comments were. If the deaf community wants to include oral deaf or CI children, then make a positive policy. Accept them as they are, and assist parents. Don't judge. That is my opinion.

The opinion seems to be in conflict with educational strategies that are being discussed here, not the social/cultural perspective.

 

[jillio]

Shel, I do teach. I might not teach deaf education, but I do teach children who are language impaired. It is heart breaking. ASL is not the cure-all. Just like aspirin is not the only cure for a headache.

I have also taught a few children that have parents who are deaf. The language delay is also there for the hearing children as well. I had one who was only taught ASL at home, and she was at least 2 years delay in language. What did I do - I got her in speech class and worked with the parents to help the child. I tutored the child after school. Is that preventable too?

A hearing child of deaf parents might be delayed in their spoken use of language....however that is not indicative of their overall linguistic competence. These children simp;y have ASL as their L1 language, and therefore, have had the opportunity to acquire and internalize language at the age appropriate developmental times. Once again, you are equating a child's ability to speak to their ability to use language cognitively for critcal thinking and creative thought. You are assessing their abilites incorrectly.

 

[shel90]

That's fine but can u answer my question how is that different from protecting their kids from the Deaf community as a whole just because some people were mean to them? Sure there will be mean people in this world both in the Deaf and hearing communities but to hold a whole community responsible is where they become just as wrong as those who were mean to them. We cant always protect our children from everything that is harmful anyway. That was my point. Yes, I was made fun of and no, I wasnt protected cuz that is a reality of life but them protecting their children from the Deaf community is just plain discrimination against anyone who is involved with the Deaf community.
QUOTE]

I am giving my opinion, I would never speak for others. If parents felt that a sample of the community was negative, bullying, or judging them based on the choice of implants, they I can see how they would say the whole community. Is it right, depends on how hurtful the comments were. If the deaf community wants to include oral deaf or CI children, then make a positive policy. Accept them as they are, and assist parents. Don't judge. That is my opinion.

The Deaf community already has CI members but as for oral deaf people who dont know sign but want to learn sign, they are accepted but if they say they dont need ASL dont need to learn, then nope, they are not going to be accepted cuz how are they gonna communicate with everyone in the Deaf community?

I dont know if u know this, I was rejected by the Deaf community in my early 20s cuz of my refusal to learn ASL and when I finally started learning it, I still wasnt accepted 100% but I accept my responsibility for devaluing what they value which is ASL. I dont hold it against them for rejecting me..it is a fact of life.

Just like if I want to be part of the Spanish speaking community and expect them to speak English at all times on my behalf, that would be disrespectful to their cultural values. Why is the Deaf community being held at different standards?

 

[jillio]

I wish I can tutor kids after school but who will watch my son while I do that cuz my husband doesnt get home until 7 PM daily. HMMMMM....


I have taught deaf children from deaf families with language delays cuz it was because they were born with congitive disabilities such as Down's syndrome or Asper's sydrome. I am speaking of those who were born with NO other disabilities and yet they become more disabled due to the lack of language access. That is what I am talking about.

It is true, shel.. Oral only environments serve to further handicap a deaf child by creating language delays that affect cognitive and psycho-social development.

 

[vallee]

The Deaf community already has CI members but as for oral deaf people who dont know sign but want to learn sign, they are accepted but if they say they dont need ASL dont need to learn, then nope, they are not going to be accepted cuz how are they gonna communicate with everyone in the Deaf community?

I dont know if u know this, I was rejected by the Deaf community in my early 20s cuz of my refusal to learn ASL and when I finally started learning it, I still wasnt accepted 100% but I accept my responsibility for devaluing what they value which is ASL. I dont hold it against them for rejecting me..it is a fact of life.

Just like if I want to be part of the Spanish speaking community and expect them to speak English at all times on my behalf, that would be disrespectful to their cultural values. Why is the Deaf community being held at different standards?

So if I want to be a member I must learn the secret handshake?

 

[shel90]

Where exactly are you finding the educators that make negative comments about a child's CI? That is quite an accusation. Making an assessment of a child's language skills is quite different than making a negative comment regarding their CI. Are you so biased that you are unable to see the obvious difference?

Thank u cuz I was greatly offended by that comment.

 

[shel90]

So if I want to be a member I must learn the secret handshake?

I wont respond to a scarcastic comment like that. Iam willing to answer questions as much as I can but not when it is put in that kind of content. It is belittling.

 

[jillio]

I am for each and every child to have the best educational environment. I don't agree with all means all. Not all deaf children learn the same. Not all children learn the same. That is why we tier lessons, use strategies, and provide services.

I'm sorry your brother did have get the exposure to ASL he needed. I went 7 years without a hearing aid because the doctors did not agree with hearing aids for nerve damage. My mom keep teaching me sounds and making the school accountable for teaching me. She kept taking me from doctor to doctor until she found one that would try hearing aids. That is what my parent did. She gave me the best she could, and that is what our CI parents are trying to do as well.(my opinion)

Why was the deaf community and deaf teachers not breaking the door down to help your brother? Why were the schools not held accountable? Where was the deaf community for the 5 years your brother suffered?

The dearf community was not aware of shel's brother, as he was placed in his early years in an oral environment that restricted his exposure tothe deaf community. Once they became aware of him and his needs, by his enrollment in a deaf educational facility, they did what was necessary for him, and he has blossomed. I personally can attest to his advanced use of language and his ability to think creatively and critically. His language use, and his ability to represent concept in unique and creative plays with language is amazing. Why? Because he finally was exposed to the environment that allowed him to develop his innate cognitive and intellectual capabilities rather than being restricted to a disabling oral environment.

 

[jillio]

I think that is what they dont understand about us and what we stand for. This has nothing to do with being against CIs and spoken language as shown by their labels of us as anti-CI, and anti-oral deaf children. :roll:

And they continually ignore this significant piece of the puzzel in order to attemtp to jsutify their position.

 

[jillio]

I am interested in education, literacy and language. And yes, I see you as anti -CI and also anti-oral. I see myself as pro-children. Not just deaf, but all children.

Then your perceptions are in error. I am not anti-CI.; I am, however, anti-oral only environment for deaf chidlren, and I have very valid reasons for my stance. Perhaps if youwere a bit more informed regarding deaf education, your perceptions would prove to be a bit more accurate.