Just A Question ?

[SxyPorkie]

Why do u need a pastor in your life when u only have one preacher, Him. U know everyone lies incluced pastors.

I grew up in Mormon family.. My uncle is "healer",,, he almost killed his own gay son... He had been abused all of us..except me i fought back..I hit him...i quit there.. went to different churches... still lots of lies... i had enough with religions,,,,
SxyPorkie

 

[Heath]

The reason I become agnostic... last Pastor had lied to me... I showed a proof right on the stage... Guess what... his wife backed me up and told everyone the Truth what he had done to me... I walked out of the church.... no more churches for me....
SxyPOrkie

Then stick to reading your Holy Bible and don't worry about church also in the last days pastors who are supposed to be shepards are inwardly wolves so you will need to stay close to God, pray and fast, just do the right thing give your heart and life to Jesus Christ, go onto help anothers where they will really help you back and set time aside to help another people who will truly not be able to help you back at all but they needed that help like donating money to the Salvation Army etc.There are so many positive things you can do being a Christian without ever stepping a foot in church, although a Deaf church would be great, if that is what you want. There are many another ways to show your Christian love and faith toanothers. You can leave tracts where people will read the tracts on their own and get saved or you can go with a street volunteer team to pass out tracts or you can go th the Silent Ministries website they have tracts for Deaf people like you , me and anothers, even hearing people have gotten saved through these tracts provided for Deaf people like an interpreter or a hearing member of your family or just a plain hearing person with no connection with the Deaf community picks up the Deaf tract and he or she ends up getting saved as well as you ministering to many Deaf people who gets saved because of the tracts explaining about Jesus Christ and just being a very good Christian example for yourself, working hard at your job, going home people visit you and they can see that you are a very good Christian then one day they will want to know more about Jesus Christ and Praise God that they are saved because they gave their hearts and lives to Jesus Christ.

 

[Heath]

I grew up in Mormon family.. My uncle is "healer",,, he almost killed his own gay son... He had been abused all of us..except me i fought back..I hit him...i quit there.. went to different churches... still lots of lies... i had enough with religions,,,,
SxyPorkie

It is satan who is trying to kill his gay son and not the father. The father was doing the right thing to tell him homosexuality is wrong and a sin which could end his own life. No father wants to see his son be gay and die a horrible slow death from HIV / AIDS and he kicks out the gay son on the street for his own family's protection and wants nothing to do with being right next to a person who has HIV / AIDS, plus on top of that shaming his family and his good name in the process. It is satan who is the homosexual and the father of lies. The father was righteous and wise enough also Godly enough to know better for his own family's safety sake. As for the issue of healing. Only Jesus Christ heals from God of Israel.

 

[Heath]

Why do u need a pastor in your life when u only have one preacher, Him. U know everyone lies incluced pastors.

That Him, is Jesus Christ who proclaimed the Word of God.

 

[christlovedeaf]

That Him, is Jesus Christ who proclaimed the Word of God.

Well, it is vrong what ur uncle did to his son bec he is gay and that's not of Christ. That's not what Jesus taught. Sorry, Heath, I don't agree some part of ur saying about homosexuals. It is a sin, but should NOT do things and no it does not give HIV or AIDS. God does not approve judgemental attitudes, look at Jesus to the woman who caught adultery, tho Jesus didn't tell her, you know what you did, it is a sin and you are going to hell and look what Jesus did to the woman at the well who had 5 husbands. Those who desires to know God and deal with their weaknesses its between thhe person and God. Paul said, mind ur own business, it doesn't mean be open mind, but we need to minister to those who are in need, but, what about a peron who refuse? That's btwn God and the person. But those who gave up church, I know how you feel as I have gone thru myself. And poxie, as u said the pastor was fired, are you happy? Is it worth to be happy? And I have seen many people say, well, he learn his lesson, not MY problem. Really, that doesn't get any better. I felt the same way about those who does that to me, till the Lord shows me, myself of that attitudes, that doesn't mean, I'm wrong they are right, God deal with them as much as myself. I have learned a lot in the culture how people react on other person of problems. It is not easy. Best way is, go to God urself and ask, He is waiting to hear from you. But yes, it is your choice either get rid of pride and put ur foot in bfore God and said, here am I, show me what's in me and what I need to change, He will show you little by little or you give up and walk away. Grace is sufficient for all of us for those who come to Him. Smile

 

[Heath]

Well, it is vrong what ur uncle did to his son bec he is gay and that's not of Christ. That's not what Jesus taught. Sorry, Heath, I don't agree some part of ur saying about homosexuals. It is a sin, but should NOT do things and no it does not give HIV or AIDS. God does not approve judgemental attitudes, look at Jesus to the woman who caught adultery, tho Jesus didn't tell her, you know what you did, it is a sin and you are going to hell and look what Jesus did to the woman at the well who had 5 husbands. Those who desires to know God and deal with their weaknesses its between thhe person and God. Paul said, mind ur own business, it doesn't mean be open mind, but we need to minister to those who are in need, but, what about a peron who refuse? That's between God and the person. But those who gave up church, I know how you feel as I have gone thru myself. And poxie, as u said the pastor was fired, are you happy? Is it worth to be happy? And I have seen many people say, well, he learn his lesson, not MY problem. Really, that doesn't get any better. I felt the same way about those who does that to me, till the Lord shows me, myself of that attitudes, that doesn't mean, I'm wrong they are right, God deal with them as much as myself. I have learned a lot in the culture how people react on other person of problems. It is not easy. Best way is, go to God urself and ask, He is waiting to hear from you. But yes, it is your choice either get rid of pride and put ur foot in bfore God and said, here am I, show me what's in me and what I need to change, He will show you little by little or you give up and walk away. Grace is sufficient for all of us for those who come to Him. Smile

That is all good but where do you draw a strong line at that ? You got to show you mean business when it comes to things like that. You cannot allow a homosexual person to continue in sin and except that he will get away with it because The Church and another Christians are being politically correct and blurring the Word of God on the issue of homosexuality. God had no qualms about sending fire and brimstone down to Sodom and Gomoherra.That is how much God hates homosexuality, just like a father's natural inclination when he finds out his son is homosexual. He puts him out on the street. He is not going to allow his son to have all the comforts of life and continue to sodomize himself with another men. I will not allow that under my house so why should it be any different under God of Israel's House. God said very, very clearly dogs are not welcome to Heaven. God provided a man with a woman and he goes and sodomizes himself with another man much to the laughter and pleasure of satan and his legion of demons standing afire laughing in their wickedness. Demonic spirits of lust, confusion, homosexuality, shame , guilt, suicide come upon the homosexual son from satan which the homosexual son accepted and did not accept God's Spirit and Righteous Direction to accept the Tree of Life, turn away from sin and repent then want to live for Jesus Christ and God of Israel then he marries a beautiful woman and has a family of his own like the man God intended him to be. Too many Christian blur the Word of God and allow people to continue in sin, it has to stop somewhere so that regeneration and getting saved can happen. God will give grace to deal with these issues, while the person is not sinning.

 

[Reba]

...Maybe Satan faked that stuff in the bible to lead people astray from Islam ....

The Bible was written before the Koran of Islam, so the chronology is wrong.

 

[christlovedeaf]

That is all good but where do you draw a strong line at that ? You got to show you mean business when it comes to things like that. You cannot allow a homosexual person to continue in sin and except that he will get away with it because The Church and another Christians are being politically correct and blurring the Word of God on the issue of homosexuality. God had no qualms about sending fire and brimstone down to Sodom and Gomoherra.That is how much God hates homosexuality, just like a father's natural inclination when he finds out his son is homosexual. He puts him out on the street. He is not going to allow his son to have all the comforts of life and continue to sodomize himself with another men. I will not allow that under my house so why should it be any different under God of Israel's House. God said very, very clearly dogs are not welcome to Heaven. God provided a man with a woman and he goes and sodomizes himself with another man much to the laughter and pleasure of satan and his legion of demons standing afire laughing in their wickedness. Demonic spirits of lust, confusion, homosexuality, shame , guilt, suicide come upon the homosexual son from satan which the homosexual son accepted and did not accept God's Spirit and Righteous Direction to accept the Tree of Life, turn away from sin and repent then want to live for Jesus Christ and God of Israel then he marries a beautiful woman and has a family of his own like the man God intended him to be. Too many Christian blur the Word of God and allow people to continue in sin, it has to stop somewhere so that regeneration and getting saved can happen. God will give grace to deal with these issues, while the person is not sinning.

Heath, drawing the line is showing you driven them away. Yes, I agree some part, grace enable them to change, but does not mean overnight thing. Did you know even God destroyed people who has bad atttitudes by complaining and murmuring. Did you know Jesus said that God will be tolerable to Sodom and Gomorrah than the pharisees? God looks the heart of people to desire to know Him and desire to walk as Christ walks. Many gave up their faith bec judgemental attitudes. If you look at Galatians 5:19 (start verses then on), look what Paul said, see all the list? Focus one sin and ignore the other, bec each person must deal themselves with God's help. So easy to look it that sin which I don't commit by condemning them. Did you know I have problem wth gay life myself? I'm still learning every step of the way, and do I approve of living that life style by God? No. Does He draw the line? No. He helps me and continue to help. The judgemental christians which I ignore, but me, I practice by the Holy Spirit to enable to become more like Him. I have true christians who support me in prayer for strength. Even I ignored human theories thinking I'm condemning myself and claim God made me that way which I don't agree. It is ur personal responsible to see of ur weaknesses than go out there and condemning people the sins you don't commit. I have seen God using me in special way from this morning service, is this, " Lord, how can u still using me the life I have been doing?" that does not mean, I can get by with it, I must face battle every day.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Well, it is vrong what ur uncle did to his son bec he is gay and that's not of Christ. That's not what Jesus taught. Sorry, Heath, I don't agree some part of ur saying about homosexuals. It is a sin, but should NOT do things and no it does not give HIV or AIDS. God does not approve judgemental attitudes, look at Jesus to the woman who caught adultery, tho Jesus didn't tell her, you know what you did, it is a sin and you are going to hell and look what Jesus did to the woman at the well who had 5 husbands. Those who desires to know God and deal with their weaknesses its between thhe person and God. Paul said, mind ur own business, it doesn't mean be open mind, but we need to minister to those who are in need, but, what about a peron who refuse? That's btwn God and the person. But those who gave up church, I know how you feel as I have gone thru myself. And poxie, as u said the pastor was fired, are you happy? Is it worth to be happy? And I have seen many people say, well, he learn his lesson, not MY problem. Really, that doesn't get any better. I felt the same way about those who does that to me, till the Lord shows me, myself of that attitudes, that doesn't mean, I'm wrong they are right, God deal with them as much as myself. I have learned a lot in the culture how people react on other person of problems. It is not easy. Best way is, go to God urself and ask, He is waiting to hear from you. But yes, it is your choice either get rid of pride and put ur foot in bfore God and said, here am I, show me what's in me and what I need to change, He will show you little by little or you give up and walk away. Grace is sufficient for all of us for those who come to Him. Smile

I have to correct you.. It was my uncle,, not Heath s uncle.. we talked about my uncle who is healer at Mormon church.. he nearly killed his gay son...it was my aunt stopped him...
SxyPorkie

 

[Reba]

Teresh, thank you very much for providing the text for me to read.

TEXTUAL BASIS:

The following commentary is Rashi's adapted to the JPS translation of the Tanakh. Lines irrelevant to the conversation have been removed to condense the text. The full text is available at the Chabad Lubavitch website if interested.

ספר בראשית פרק ט​

Book of Genesis, Chapter 9

.ד אך-בשר, בנפשו דמו לא תאכלו​

4. Only flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

flesh with the life thereof He prohibited them to eat a limb cut off from a living creature; i.e., as long as its soul is in it, you shall not eat the flesh. (Sanhedrin 59b) (i.e., if the limb is cut from the animal while it is alive, it is forbidden to be eaten even after the animal expires.)

with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof As long as its life is within it.

flesh with the life thereof…you shall not eat This refers to a limb of a living creature. And also, its blood, you shall not eat-This refers to blood of a living creature. (Sanhedrin 59b)

.ה ואך את-דמכם לנפשתיכם אדרש, מיד כל-חיה אדרשנו; ומיד האדם, מיד איש אחיו--אדרש, את-נפש האדם​

5. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it; and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man.

RASHI:

surely your blood Even though I permitted you to take the life of animals, your blood I will demand of one who sheds his own blood (i.e., who commits suicide). (Genesis Rabbah 34:13, Bava Qama 91b)

of your lives Also one who strangles himself, even though no blood issued from him. (Genesis Rabbah 34:13)

at the hand of every beast Since the Generation of the Flood had sinned, and they were abandoned as prey for the wild beasts, which would have power over them, as it is said (Psalms. 49:13, 21): "he is compared to the silenced animals"; therefore, it was necessary to warn the beasts about them (not to kill them).

and from the hand of man From the hand of one who kills intentionally, without witnesses, I will demand his life. (Targum Jonathan, verse 6)

at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother From the hand of the one who loves him like a brother, and killed him unintentionally, I will demand punishment, if he does not go into exile nor beg that his iniquity be forgiven. For even the inadvertent sinner requires atonement. If there are no witnesses to sentence him to exile, and he does not humble himself, the Holy One, blessed be He, will demand it of him, as our Rabbis expounded (Exod. 21:13): "And God placed him into his hand," in Tractate Makot 10b: the Holy One, blessed be He, causes them to meet at the same inn, etc.

.ו שפך דם האדם, באדם דמו ישפך: כי בצלם אלהים, עשה את-האדם​

6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God made He man.

.ז ואתם, פרו ורְבו; שרְצו בארץ, ורְבו-בה​

7. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; swarm in the earth, and multiply therein."

And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply According to its simple meaning: the first mention of this expression (verse 1) was a blessing, and this mention is a commandment. According to its midrashic interpretation, it is written here to compare one who does not engage in propagation to one who sheds blood. (Yevamot 63b)

.ח ויאמר אלהים אל-נח, ואל-בניו אתו לאמר​

8. And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying:

.ט ואני, הנני מקים את-בריתי אתכם, ואת-זרעכם, אחריכם​

9. 'As for Me, behold, I establish My covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

As for Me, behold I Agree with you, for Noah was afraid to engage in propagation until the Holy One, blessed be He, promised him never to destroy the world again, and so He did. He ultimately said to him, "Behold I agree to make a confirmation and a strengthening of a covenant for My promise, and I will give you a sign." (Tan. Buber, Noach 17)

...

.יב ויאמר אלהים, זאת אות-הברית אשר-אני נתן ביני וביניכם, ובין כל-נפש חיה, אשר אתכם--לדרת, עולם​

12. And God said: 'This is the token of the covenant which I make between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

I'm sorry but after reading the above, I still don't see anything in that text that supports salvation by works.

Regarding the Talmud references: There is no complete text of the Talmud in English (or even in Hebrew/Aramaic, for that matter) online anywhere. Our library has copies of the Sanhedrin (Steinsaltz edition), but it is closed today. I will update sometime tommorow or on Tuesday when I am able to get over there to provide the text. As for Bava Qama, if you want the one line of text, you're going to have to wait a few days while I request the Schottenstein edition of that tractate.

OK, I'll check back later for those references. No hurry.

SYNTHESIS:

There are two effective covenants in the world, the Covenant of Noach and the Covenant of Yisrael. As Noach is, according to traditional Jewish teaching (and traditional Christian teaching), the most recent common ancestor of all humans, all humans are B'nei Noach, Children of Noach.

Yes, I understand that.

Humans would normally receive salvation if they lived within the terms of their agreement with God. (Genesis 2) As the Covenant of Noach is the agreement all humans have with God, they are therefore all bound to it to receive salvation.

Can you please point out to me the exact part of the Covenant where God agrees to give eternal life in exchange for specific works? If someone lives 98years within the terms of the covenant but fails the day before he dies, then he loses his salvation? Also, what is the provision for salvation after someone fails one of the requirements? That is, is someone breaks one of the laws of the covenant, does that person lose eternal life?

I thought this line from your text was interesting: "For even the inadvertent sinner requires atonement." I agree with that statement. However, I believe that atonement was made by Jesus Christ shedding His blood on the cross of Calvary. That is the blood atonement for sin, the only atonement worthy for redeeming the transgressors.

According to its midrashic interpretation, it is written here to compare one who does not engage in propagation to one who sheds blood. (Yevamot 63b)

Does that mean that someone infertile is guilty as a murderer?

the Holy One, blessed be He, promised him never to destroy the world again,

That is, God promised to never again destroy the world by a flood of water, only.

 

[Heath]

I have to correct you.. It was my uncle,, not Heath s uncle.. we talked about my uncle who is healer at Mormon church.. he nearly killed his gay son...it was my aunt stopped him...
SxyPorkie

Your uncle still did the right thing. Homosexuality should pour forth naturally righteous anger from men everywhere. It is digusting period. He was not going to allow his own son to sodomize himself wickedly with another men.

If a guy tried to come onto me what is my natural reaction ? Punch him really hard, of course but then you will call it a gay hate crime when it really is you who hates any type of rightousness from God and God enabled men to know what is right and wrong and God allowed good men to defend themselves from wicked men.

 

[christlovedeaf]

I have to correct you.. It was my uncle,, not Heath s uncle.. we talked about my uncle who is healer at Mormon church.. he nearly killed his gay son...it was my aunt stopped him...
SxyPorkie

I know I was also talking with you too, not just heath, sorry that I left out ur name make it seems I'm just talking with heath. But I know it was ur uncle u were talking about. Thanks for bringing that up. Smile

 

[SxyPorkie]

I know I was also talking with you too, not just heath, sorry that I left out ur name make it seems I'm just talking with heath. But I know it was ur uncle u were talking about. Thanks for bringing that up. Smile

He tried to heal me and my deafness... even tried to heal me of cancer.. it was radiations and chemo healed me

 

[Teresh]

Can you please point out to me the exact part of the Covenant where God agrees to give eternal life in exchange for specific works?

There's no scriptural basis for 'eternal life' in the Tanakh as far as I know. Judaism does have the concept of a hereafter, but it's not considered an important point and not discussed much as the focus is on this world.

If someone lives 98years within the terms of the covenant but fails the day before he dies, then he loses his salvation?

No. According to the midrash (this may be mentioned in tractate Yoma of the Talmud, but I haven't fully read that one, so I'm not sure) every year God writes the names of all B'nei Noach and B'nei Yisrael in a 'book of life' during the week and a half between Rosh HaShana and Yom Kippur. There is a column for one who has been wicked and one who has been good. Those who have seriously repent for their crimes are written in the good column, those who have not are written in the wicked column. God finishes writing on Yom Kippur, but doesn't actually close the book until the end of Sukkot about two weeks later.

The idea of the closing is not that it makes repentance impossible, but rather that the longer you delay repentance, the harder it is to gain. Not from God, but from other people. For example if you start a rumor to slander someone else, the longer you wait, the more people will hear the rumor that you did not yourself tell. Your action's implications can quickly grow far outside the scope of your own control. That does not mean you're not honestly sorry but rather that repenting, that is, returning things to the way they were before you committed the crime, can be very hard depending on the crime.

It's worth noting that midrashic stories generally should not be taken literally, but they're meant as a way of encouraging one to live a better life through parables.

Also, what is the provision for salvation after someone fails one of the requirements? That is, is someone breaks one of the laws of the covenant, does that person lose eternal life?

Depends on if he repents or not.

Does that mean that someone infertile is guilty as a murderer?

No, because God does not require people to fulfill mitzvot that they are not able to. For example, on another forum I was told by an Orthodox woman that her grandfather was conscripted into the army in WWII to fight against the Japanese. Her grandfather had no choice in the matter regarding his conscription and was obviously not able keep kosher, observe Shabbat, etc. While it may have hurt him inside, the fact of the matter is there was no transgression. God does not expect someone to fulfill a commandment that he is physically, mentally or spiritually unable to fulfill.

Another example of this is Berakhot 2:6 of the Mishnah, where Rabban Gamliel is confronted by students accusing him of breaking the laws of mourning when his wife died. He explains to them that while normally when one mourns he or she does not pleasure-bathe, he is old and ill and needed to take a bath for his health.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Your uncle still did the right thing. Homosexuality should pour forth naturally righteous anger from men everywhere. It is digusting period. He was not going to allow his own son to sodomize himself wickedly with another men.

If a guy tried to come onto me what is my natural reaction ? Punch him really hard, of course but then you will call it a gay hate crime when it really is you who hates any type of rightousness from God and God enabled men to know what is right and wrong and God allowed good men to defend themselves from wicked men.

NO you are wrong... It is wrong to kill any one...... it is against law!!

 

[christlovedeaf]

He tried to heal me and my deafness... even tried to heal me of cancer.. it was radiations and chemo healed me

Well, I have seen healing preachers and the way they do I don't agree with. But as prayers I do believe. Yeah, do you know that like chemo and stuff is part of God involved? And now being deaf, do you remember paul in the Bible? He had very bad eyes. And Paul said, be content. I know its hard to do, if you get a devotional book written by Charles Spurgeon, he has a lot of comforting words and encouraging us to be strong while we are suffering and that's build your faith. We all have trying times.. Smile.
The book I recently mentioned is called Comfort for your soul. Its very encouraging.

 

[Heath]

NO you are wrong... It is wrong to kill any one...... it is against law!!

Your uncle was trying to save his son's life and he had every right to be angry. I know it seems like he tried to kill him but he was not and The Bible says when sin has conceived then it brings forth death. I am very sure your uncle gave him so many warnings to not go and get himself sodomized by men and the gay son dis-obeyed his father. The Bible says for children to obey their parents for this is right. His aunt let him get away with the sin of homosexuality and she rebelled against her husband's authority and your uncle, his father still was in the right. Forget American law here for a mintune .... when it comes down to human law from the KJV HOLY BIBLE, what naturally will happen? The father will warn his son that homosexuality is sick and evil and to repent and turn away but if his son does not listen then he could die in his sin. His uncle may have struck him in the face out of his son's rebellious anger then he is dead and your uncle did not kill him. It was your cousin who killed himself, all because he did not obey God and his earthly father. Remember God works with the earthly father. What if you just found out your cousin was murdered via HIV / AIDS through the act of sodomization which God rightfully hates and so does your uncle hate for a very good reason. Your eyes would be opened that you did not hold a firm line with your cousin or allowed your uncle to handle the matter with your cousin. What if he went to get himself sodomized tonight then there was a very, very evil and I mean a very evil violent homosexual who sodomized, raped then brutally killed your cousin and you can not bear to look at your own cousin, even when your cousin lays there in the funeral casket with a mangled face, black blue and really vicious cuts on his face. That is a result of disobeying God and you allowed your cousin to continue in his sin when in fact, you should have held a firm line and tried to save his life by telling him the truth and let his family handle the matter then that is between God and your cousin but when his time is up. Someone in his righteous anger may strike him then he lays dead as a result of his sin and he is now in the Lake of Hades ( Hell ) because of you and your aunt not doing the right thing and let your uncle and your cousin fight it out then your cousin's eyes may have been opened that night to the very simple truth that is so hard for him to see but it is very clear to his father and he sees it for what it is so does God too.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Your uncle was trying to save his son's life and he had every right to be angry. I know it seems like he tried to kill him but he was not and The Bible says when sin has conceived then it brings forth death. I am very sure your uncle gave him so many warnings to not go and get himself sodomized by men and the gay son dis-obeyed his father. The Bible says for children to obey their parents for this is right. His aunt let him get away with the sin of homosexuality and she rebelled against her husband's authority and your uncle, his father still was in the right. Forget American law here for a mintune .... when it comes down to human law from the KJV HOLY BIBLE, what naturally will happen? The father will warn his son that homosexuality is sick and evil and to repent and turn away but if his son does not listen then he could die in his sin. His uncle may have struck him in the face out of his son's rebellious anger then he is dead and your uncle did not kill him. It was your cousin who killed himself, all because he did not obey God and his earthly father. Remember God works with the earthly father. What if you just found out your cousin was murdered via HIV / AIDS through the act of sodomization which God rightfully hates and so does your uncle hate for a very good reason. Your eyes would be opened that you did not hold a firm line with your cousin or allowed your uncle to handle the matter with your cousin. What if he went to get himself sodomized tonight then there was a very, very evil and I mean a very evil violent homosexual who sodomized, raped then brutally killed your cousin and you can not bear to look at your own cousin, even when your cousin lays there in the funeral casket with a mangled face, black blue and really vicious cuts on his face. That is a result of disobeying God and you allowed your cousin to continue in his sin when in fact, you should have held a firm line and tried to save his life by telling him the truth and let his family handle the matter then that is between God and your cousin but when his time is up. Someone in his righteous anger may strike him then he lays dead as a result of his sin and he is now in the Lake of Hades ( Hell ) because of you and your aunt not doing the right thing and let your uncle and your cousin fight it out then your cousin's eyes may have been opened that night to the very simple truth that is so hard for him to see but it is very clear to his father and he sees it for what it is so does God too.

One of 10 commandents.. Thou shalt not kill..... you did killed something.. i did killed something like bugs.... mouse... etc...LOL

 

[Heath]

One of 10 commandents.. Thou shalt not kill..... you did killed something.. i did killed something like bugs.... mouse... etc...LOL

Your uncle did not strike to kill his own son. Your uncle struck him to teach him a lesson and he died because his time was up. That was it . Pure and simple. God required the gay son to come before the Judgement seat and he was cast in the Lake of Hades. I can tell you that is different than intentional murder which your uncle did not do. Your uncle struck him out of love to teach him a very firm and a very clear lesson. Before you scream child abuse, Consider this I am sure your uncle never beat him up at all his whole childhood before this and he had a good reason to strike him in the face after he tried everything, sat him down to talk and everything, tried to get him help in a very good program and your cousin was still stubborn and your cousin still wanted to be sodomized by another men on a mattress then one night there is that confrontation from an evil and a very violent homosexual who killed your cousin with HIV / AIDS slowly or the evil violent homosexual had a blunt instrument or something very tragical and very unfortunate like a car accident befall him because of his dis-obedience to God to not continue in the sin of homosexuality. As cold as this sounds, This is the truth and a reality of everyday life. Would you want me to water it down for you ? or do you want the hard hitting truth ? Homosexuality is demonic possession and is so very un-natural no matter how much you want homosexuality to be acceptable. It s not acceptable.

 

[Teresh]

Your uncle was trying to save his son's life and he had every right to be angry. I know it seems like he tried to kill him but he was not and The Bible says when sin has conceived then it brings forth death.

I know this doesn't really apply to you because you don't consider it canon, but Yoma 2:2 discusses the subject of religious fervor to the point of sin. When the Temple still stood, one of the first housekeeping tasks that the priests needed to do in the morning was clear the ashes from the altar. They figured no one really wanted to do this job, so what they did was they made a game out of it. They would have whoever wanted to do race up the temple stairs and whoever won got to perform the task. If there was an apparent tie, they used an ancient game similar in principle to rock, paper, scissors or odds or evens to decide who got to do it.

Yoma 2:1
"Originally anyone who wished to remove the ashes from the altar did so. When they were many, they would run up the ramp of the altar and he that came first within four cubits won the privilege. If two were even, the officer would say to them raise the finger! And how many did they put out? One or two but one does not put out a thumb in the Temple."

Yoma 2:2
"It once happened that two were even as they ran up the ramp, and one of them pushed his fellow who fell and broke his leg. When the court saw that they incurred danger, they decreed that they would remove the ashes from only by a count."


The Gemara tells another story, a bit more severe. When they were racing up the steps, one priest who was at that point losing took out a priest's knife (used for sacrifice) and stabbed his competitor and then won. When his competitor's father arrived and saw what had happened, he praised God for his son's murderer having removed the knife from his son's body, thus preventing it (the knife) from being rendered ritually impure by his son's blood.


What these stories tell us is that religious fervor is both dangerous and sinful if it leads us to sinning.