North Korea proclaims itself a nuclear state in new constitution

CrazyPaul said:
I don't think China will support NK if NK starts the war.
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i dunno about that....
China got the world in their pocket USA owes them $$ and many other country, and everyones getting pissed off

now just when they refuse to pay China...cause of cheat or stealing labour or substandard products or intellectual property thefts, etc
then i mean like
those little business side of things
can indeed trigger a war, not jsut business war, military war...
i mean this would be the *only reason* why WW3 would start...oil is on the sideline....
 
Grummer said:
i dunno about that....
China got the world in their pocket USA owes them $$ and many other country, and everyones getting pissed off

now just when they refuse to pay China...cause of cheat or stealing labour or substandard products or intellectual property thefts, etc
then i mean like
those little business side of things
can indeed trigger a war, not jsut business war, military war...
i mean this would be the *only reason* why WW3 would start...oil is on the sideline....
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WTF are you talking about? Do you mean that because U.S. still owes China money, China would defend NK, even though NK starts the war? If so, you are crazier than me. :lol:
 
Foxrac said:
Oh really? even without foreign's help? because NK will launch the nuclear weapon in no time?
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probably UK but not much. I do not expect much foreign support. Producing, maintaining, and launching nuclear weapon is cost-prohibitive especially for a poor country like North Korea so I do not believe NK has a capability to launch nuclear missile with accuracy and I do not believe NK has more than 1 or 2 well-functioning nukes.

Other countries are already financially strained and if it comes to Korean War, they would be extremely hesitant to get involved into costly, bloody war since it's not their problem.

Obviously... everybody is doing their best to prevent it from getting ugly.
 
CrazyPaul said:
What about NK's air power? That good? Regarding to air power, U.S. Air Forces is one of the best.
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NK's air power is so comical that even you can knock it off with your joystick controlling Predator. NK's not stupid to waste their time and money on its air force since they know we can easily and simply knock'em off before their pilots can even see it coming.

It does not matter if we have air supremacy. Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korean War have shown that our air power yielded meek success due to difficult terrain. Like I said before - majority of Korean peninsula is mountainous. That would be advantageous for North Koreans like it was for Taliban.

What wins the war is putting men on ground. As long as we have sufficient naval support, we'll be somewhat ok. Air support is very tricky and difficult. Many countries forbid Americans from using their bases and/or airspace for launching attack on other country except for logistic/medical purpose. That's why we have aircraft carriers and long-range bombers plus stratotanker originating from American bases.

Our allies like Turkey and Germany forbade Americans from using its bases and airspace to launch attack in Iraq. That's why our bombers flew the way there and back to America. On that side note.... this is part of reasons why we have over $600 billions for defense budget to research for more efficient and better way to get around with our problems such as building a floating airbase large enough to launch bomber planes or building a better UAV that's as good & capable as bomber plane and can be launched from aircraft carrier.
 
Grummer said:
...and more so, china have access to technology, NK dont, i cant help but feel Jiro since he's a Korean some kind of wierd ego warps his judgement
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My friend was a former Special Force for South Korean military. Intelligence unit.

No ego or pride going on here. Only facts and reality. The fact and reality is that our South Korean army is pathetic and sad. The fact and reality is that American soldiers in Korea would not survive North Korean onslaught as they're severely outnumbered.

Korean people are required to serve in military for 3 years. Extremely unpopular and demoralizing. They have no strong sense of patriotism like our American soldiers do.

So I'll ask you this thought-provoking question - which one would you, as a citizen, prefer to be defended by? A citizen who was forced into army to defend a country or a citizen who voluntarily signed up to defend a country? There you go.

As for me - America is first... and anything else is secondary. If Korean War did happen, I would sign up for America, not Korea.
 
Grummer said:
i dunno about that....
China got the world in their pocket USA owes them $$ and many other country, and everyones getting pissed off

now just when they refuse to pay China...cause of cheat or stealing labour or substandard products or intellectual property thefts, etc
then i mean like
those little business side of things
can indeed trigger a war, not jsut business war, military war...
i mean this would be the *only reason* why WW3 would start...oil is on the sideline....
Click to expand...

Why are you so obsession on USA owe the debt to China? Really? Do you realize, USA owe China which is smaller?
 
Foxrac said:
Yup, just like I said it wasn't good idea at all.

What happens if NK start to invade SK so how we could prevent NK from attacking SK? I think that Seoul is beautiful in picture and doesn't want this capital city turns into ugly due to war.
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No idea. There are millions of mine bombs along the DMZ. So we have to do our best to resolve this diplomatically.

Foxrac said:
Why does NK will outnumber US + SK? I think that we have modern, better military technologies and we are ability to thwart the invasion by NK. I'm surprised about your claim and like to know about it.
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Because NK is a military country lol and Korean War's still on-going so naturally... it would have a huge number of soldiers. Despite of modern and better military technologies, it's still not enough to win the war. You still need to put the men on ground to win. and it's not easy doing that in Korea since terrains are extremely difficult and mountainous. It's not easy to move around with tanks, artillery and supplies. Since DMZ is littered with defensive measures such as mine bombs, anti-tank barriers, obstacles, etc...

It's not going to be easy to do sustained airdrops in enemy territory... meaning Wave 1 would have to hold on long enough for Wave 2 and both Wave 1 (most likely killed) and Wave 2 would have to hold on long enough for Wave 3 and so on. I do not have a strong confidence that we can do it.

Combating and navigating in unknown territory would put Americans in a very disadvantageous position.

Foxrac said:
Interesting about 60% of SK is not livable, what about Japan? I think Japan will be much worse because of more mountainous country. Build the place on mountain is very expensive for sure.
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Japan is also mountainous and also it's full of islands. Now its livable territory has been reduced because of Fukushima disaster.
 
Jiro said:
No idea. There are millions of mine bombs along the DMZ. So we have to do our best to resolve this diplomatically.


Because NK is a military country lol and Korean War's still on-going so naturally... it would have a huge number of soldiers. Despite of modern and better military technologies, it's still not enough to win the war. You still need to put the men on ground to win. and it's not easy doing that in Korea since terrains are extremely difficult and mountainous. It's not easy to move around with tanks, artillery and supplies. Since DMZ is littered with defensive measures such as mine bombs, anti-tank barriers, obstacles, etc...

It's not going to be easy to do sustained airdrops in enemy territory... meaning Wave 1 would have to hold on long enough for Wave 2 and both Wave 1 (most likely killed) and Wave 2 would have to hold on long enough for Wave 3 and so on. I do not have a strong confidence that we can do it.

Combating and navigating in unknown territory would put Americans in a very disadvantageous position.


Japan is also mountainous and also it's full of islands. Now its livable territory has been reduced because of Fukushima disaster.
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Yup, just let North Korea and South Korea have reunification peaceably.

When come to reunification, North Korea has transition the economy from socialism to capitalism at same level as South Korea, put direct election for citizens to vote, draft and adopt the new constitution, fixing and modernize the infrastructure, change the policies for education, teach citizens about how capitalism works and possibly disarm the nuclear weapon or handover to South Korea.
 
PowerON said:
Why are you so obsession on USA owe the debt to China? Really? Do you realize, USA owe China which is smaller?
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no,im not obsessed with it, its a fact. I dont like China they are a real cheat, and they are not much better than North Korea either, in as far as how they conduct their military organsations and their jurisdiction carried out affecting many lives in an harmful way.
 
Jiro said:
NK's air power is so comical that even you can knock it off with your joystick controlling Predator. NK's not stupid to waste their time and money on its air force since they know we can easily and simply knock'em off before their pilots can even see it coming.

It does not matter if we have air supremacy. Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korean War have shown that our air power yielded meek success due to difficult terrain. Like I said before - majority of Korean peninsula is mountainous. That would be advantageous for North Koreans like it was for Taliban.

What wins the war is putting men on ground. As long as we have sufficient naval support, we'll be somewhat ok. Air support is very tricky and difficult. Many countries forbid Americans from using their bases and/or airspace for launching attack on other country except for logistic/medical purpose. That's why we have aircraft carriers and long-range bombers plus stratotanker originating from American bases.
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U.S. always uses air power first to bomb an enemy's military bases, war weapons factories and other important places like bridges, airports, etc before we put soldiers on ground. If NK sucks at dogfights, SK will win with our help.
 
CrazyPaul said:
U.S. always uses air power first to bomb an enemy's military bases, war weapons factories and other important places like bridges, airports, etc before we put soldiers on ground. If NK sucks at dogfights, SK will win with our help.
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you don't think NK knew anything about US's air power? and if it's that simple just to bomb these usual targets and then put soldiers on ground.... then why did they have a great difficulty in winning Vietnam War and Korean War? and even Afghanistan? the causality was too high.

and no... SK and USA will not win. it will just end in extremely costly and deadly stalemate.
 
Jiro said:
you don't think NK knew anything about US's air power? and if it's that simple just to bomb these usual targets and then put soldiers on ground.... then why did they have a great difficulty in winning Vietnam War and Korean War? and even Afghanistan? the causality was too high.

and no... SK and USA will not win. it will just end in extremely costly and deadly stalemate.
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So are you saying that when NK invades SK, we should back off?
 
CrazyPaul said:
So are you saying that when NK invades SK, we should back off?
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no. what I'm saying is that regardless of who started it, it will end in bloody stalemate with probably over 10% Koreans gone on both sides together since Seoul has roughly 25% of the population. if nuclear weapons are used, then it would be probably over 20% of Koreans gone.

so what I'm saying is that war must be avoided at all cost.
 
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