Trickle down health care costs

Beowulf said:
I know what trickle down economics is. It is simply voodoo economics and has been proven time and again not to work.
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I refer to it as the "shit runs downhill theory."
 
StSapphire said:
Hm, that is trickling on down. I can smell the faint aroma of ammonia, and it's a lovely golden color. Thank you, oh most gracious capitalism, for bestowing upon us the generosity of what you deem appropriate to "trickle down" to us lowly and unworthy plebeians.
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Beowulf said:
I know what trickle down economics is. It is simply voodoo economics and has been proven time and again not to work.
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jillio said:
I refer to it as the "shit runs downhill theory."
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I felt that StSapphire's comment, quoted above, described it very well. However, it failed to mention the warm temperature as it showered down.
 
rolling7 said:
Think you can teach Obama this fact?
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Tell me again how this relates to insurance fee mandates in SF...

Think you can find anything to say that is not derogatory towards non-Conservatives, regardless of whether you can substantiate your claims?

I didn't think so.
 
jillio said:
Those loosely formed connections always seem to pop up in threads on these topics. No relation or correlation at all, but people will go out of their way to try to make associations.:laugh2: We just see soooo much more of it when people think they can effectively come up with a negative portrayal of anything Obama. Twisting evidence to suit the judgement.
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But wait.... You said "exactly". To "any costs....". Are you suggesting the obamacare mandate on businesses will somehow NOT cost businesses money???? Where will businesses get the free insurance??? I wouldn't mind having some of that myself.

You already agree businesses will pass the cost on to consumers....what about businesses that cater to poor consumers???
 
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TXgolfer said:
But wait.... You said "exactly". To "any costs....". Are you suggesting the obamacare mandate on businesses will so
ehow NOT cost businesses money???? Where will businesses get the free insurance??? I wouldn't mind having some of that myself.

You already agree businesses will pass the cost on to consumers....what about businesses that cater to poor consumers???
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I think you know the answers to this. The CEO is still gonna require/demand an automatic 20% salary increase annually as well. Who covers this? Usually it is a combination of increased prices passed down to the consumer, along with reduced payroll costs; that usually mean fewer American citizens as part of the workforce. The bottom line is that greed on both sides causes action - reaction. You want a pay raise? I am somehow gonna reduce the labor costs anyway. Say goodbye to half your coworkers.
 
TXgolfer said:
But wait.... You said "exactly". To "any costs....". Are you suggesting the obamacare mandate on businesses will so
ehow NOT cost businesses money???? Where will businesses get the free insurance??? I wouldn't mind having some of that myself.

You already agree businesses will pass the cost on to consumers....what about businesses that cater to poor consumers???
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If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you are not as well informed regarding the specifics of the health care reform package as you would have us believe you are.:cool2:
 
saywhatkid said:
I think you know the answers to this. The CEO is still gonna require/demand an automatic 20% salary increase annually as well. Who covers this? Usually it is a combination of increased prices passed down to the consumer, along with reduced payroll costs; that usually mean fewer American citizens as part of the workforce. The bottom line is that greed on both sides causes action - reaction. You want a pay raise? I am somehow gonna reduce the labor costs anyway. Say goodbye to half your coworkers.
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Not to mention the fact that businesses are already paying for increased health care costs that are the result of the uninsured through increasing cost of premiums for their employees. That is why they keep going to worse and worse coverage in an attempt to cut their cost.
 
The Supreme Court will not hear the Virginia lawsuit until summer of 2012 and I have already been driven insane by the constant choruses of whines. :lol:
 
Jiro said:
1. S.F. has a health-care mandate that requires businesses to offer health insurance to employees or pay a fee to the city to fund health care.
2. In order to pay for it, restaurants are making us (customers) to pay for it
3. What restaurants doing (in other word... trickling down to customers) is illegal - IMO. U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit will rule on it later this month and I believe they will rule that restaurants cannot charge a fee to customers to pay for health care.
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Yup, that what I believe about overcharge the costumers to pay to fund the SF health care is illegal, however it won't illegal if they increase the meal price to fund it.
 
TXgolfer said:
But wait.... You said "exactly". To "any costs....". Are you suggesting the obamacare mandate on businesses will so
ehow NOT cost businesses money???? Where will businesses get the free insurance??? I wouldn't mind having some of that myself.

You already agree businesses will pass the cost on to consumers....what about businesses that cater to poor consumers???
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Not new to me, even pay $12 per hours and offer better insurance to employees at McDonald's means their food will cost more like $10 for Big Mac meal.

I won't mind about that if employees think that they deserve to get better pay, also I don't eat at fast food so much, just 1-2 per week so I usually cook the meal on my own.

Business is just evil.
 
jillio said:
If you don't know the answers to these questions, then you are not as well informed regarding the specifics of the health care reform package as you would have us believe you are.:cool2:
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I know the answers....but do you?
 
TXgolfer said:
But wait.... You said "exactly". To "any costs....". Are you suggesting the obamacare mandate on businesses will somehow NOT cost businesses money???? Where will businesses get the free insurance??? I wouldn't mind having some of that myself.

You already agree businesses will pass the cost on to consumers....what about businesses that cater to poor consumers???
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First: Is this an emotional subject for you? Question mark usage is roughly similar to that of exclamation points, and as a wise man once said, multiple exclamation points are a sure sign of a diseased mind. :lol:

Second: We're talking about businesses. As best as they're able, they internalize all profits and externalize all costs. The key point, of course, is "as best as they're able". The restaurant you're talking about clearly felt like increasing their prices or including a "tax price surcharge" directly and obviously to their customers wouldn't affect their sales. A business such as Wal-Mart, which markets heavily upon their prices, would likely find other ways to reduce their costs to offset the new cost, such as by lowering employee wages or downsizing, or by simply taking a hit from their profits (as if they simply detract the cost from their existing profits might still make more than they would lose in sales if they increase the cost of their products).

Of course, I Am Not An Economist, so I might simply be blatantly wrong about all of this, but it's clearly much more difficult that simply "Higher taxes instantly means poor people will pay more for everything they have to buy, but lower taxes means everyone will be richer!" if even I can come up with plausible scenarios for alternate outcomes. (And the above statement is an obvious simplification, but seems to be roughly the general idea of what defines the theory of "trickle-down economics".)
 
jillio said:
Then why are you asking the questions? I have already demonstrated that I am aware of the answers to such questions. It is in my posts.
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Actually your posts contradict each other.
You say exactly to businesses will pass on costs then post your "twisting" post

let me try this...
Jillio, do you believe some businesses will incur costs buying insurance for their employees as required under the obamacare mandate?

If yes, do you believe businesses will just take this cost from their profits? Or, do you believe they will cut costs/raise prices?
 
**jillio shaking head sadly at the number of things that are apparently misunderstood**
 
TXgolfer said:
Some people need a stronger hint that there is a question
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:P

Just teasing, of course. Just because we disagree about tons of stuff doesn't mean we can't have fun while doing it, right?

TXgolfer said:
cut wages,cut staff, cut benefits, cut hours, cut quality....it hits the little guy. Cut profits? Highly unlikely. I wouldn't.
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Well, to be blunt, you're not the CEO or CFO of these companies. Assuming they're even somewhat competent at their jobs, they'll look at all of these options. Assuming their company and the people making these decisions are competent (a large leap, I realize, but still...), they may come to the conclusion that any of these decisions might negatively affect their profits more than simply reporting the increased costs as... costs, which simply results in them reporting slightly less growth/profits than they otherwise would have.

Business economics and the like are extremely complex, and trying to simplify it down occasionally has the detrimental effect of implying that a situation that's somewhat different from the simplified version happens far less than it might actually happen.

TXgolfer said:
which is why I didn't use the phrase "trickle down economics"
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You used the phrase "trickle down" which obviously implies "trickle down economics". After the fact saying "Well, I said 'trickle down' but not 'trickle down economics' so that means you can't use that phrase to criticize me either!" just sounds silly.
 
TXgolfer said:
Actually your posts contradict each other.
You say exactly to businesses will pass on costs then post your "twisting" post

let me try this...
Jillio, do you believe some businesses will incur costs buying insurance for their employees as required under the obamacare mandate?

If yes, do you believe businesses will just take this cost from their profits? Or, do you believe they will cut costs/raise prices?
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jillio said:
**jillio shaking head sadly at the number of things that are apparently misunderstood**
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Both of you need meet at Hooters.

Jillio, you got nice red Obama approved, Lexus car and TXgolfer, you got nice biggest black Dodge RAM truck.

I cannot wait to see your answer to be heard. j/k :lol:
 
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