Family of suicide victim says Notre Dame betrayed them

[Oceanbreeze]

If she were showing signs of being a danger to herself, her parents should have had her probated.

Can you define this please? I know what you mean, but, others may not.

Btw, I agree with you.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Schools is responsible for the well being of their students, especially in colleges whereas security is paramount for the students. Also, there's a reason for school counselors. Failing that, she's suffering because a ball player is more important than the victim. This happens all too often.

When a popular ball player, especially when one is highly important because he's helping bring victories for the home team. So with that in mind, sports is more important than a victim. Shame on them.

So you say "school is not responsible", that's not entirely true. When a victim claims rape, the law must treat it under serious consideration and a investigation must take place. Unfortunately, for some, some that investigation it do so under a biased attitude, a perception that the victim is not to be believe despite of what the evidence may present itself. A lie is better than the truth.

Yiz

No, Yiz. The school is not responsible for this poor girls' demise. If she felt harassed or whatever, she had the option of transfering to another school. Also, someone in that state of mind really should be under a Dr's care. Speaking as someone who's been through abuse and it's aftermath, I can tell you that one cannot recover on their own. Professional help is necessary. If this girl was NOT under professional care, then, that is NOT the fault of the school. It's the fault of this girl and her family for not being vigilante and getting her the proper help she needed. This family may be dead in the water here, and, they should be. They're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Jiro]

They're barking up the wrong tree.

In some cases - they do that to avoid humiliation.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I want to know, if a rape occurred, why were only the campus police notified. This is a matter for the local police. Too many holes in the story. I am very sorry this family lost their daughter, but the school is not responsible for her suicide. Just because her grieving parents say it "feels" like a betrayal doesn't mean a betrayal acually occurred.

Grief does weird things to people. I agree with you, though. Why weren't the local authorities involved? Campus police (or someone) should have reported it to city police. Campus police may be mandated to report it? If so, why didn't they, or, why didn't the parents' report this? That's where the ball was dropped, or, so it seems.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

In some cases - they do that to avoid humiliation.

I'm wondering if this is what's going on. Sounds like the parents want to hold someone responsible without skeletons being dug up. I'm NOT wanting to go down the "blame the victim" road here. That's not what I'm implying, but, something seems wonky here. There's a lot of questions to this.

 

[Beowulf]

In some cases - they do that to avoid humiliation.

True. I once accompanied a friend who was a rape victim to trial, and I was livid, absolutely shaking in rage at some of the questions they asked her.

 

[Jiro]

True. I once accompanied a friend who was a rape victim to trial, and I was livid, absolutely shaking in rage at some of the questions they asked her.

reminds me of Elizabeth Smart trial. I was thinking - "is this really necessary?"

sux that our rape laws are draconian and cold...

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Campus Police is also required to contact the local authorities as well....

Yiz

Her parents could have also done the same thing, and, should have. Why didn't they? Why didn't she? I know that reporting a sex crime opens one up to humiliation and such, but, if you want justice than you need to do what you need to do. Also, why wasn't this girl getting couseling? Rape crisis would have taken her through all the steps necessary to insure that she remain safe AND get her the proper support she needed. The school itself is NOT responsible for this. It's on her and the family. Going through the legal system is daunting, but, that's why there's victim advocates there to help. This was the way to go, and, sad to say, the family chose not to. That is on THEM.

 

[jillio]

Can you define this please? I know what you mean, but, others may not.

Btw, I agree with you.

Parents go to probate court, tell a judge their daughter is suicidal and will not get help voluntarily, judge issues an order for her to be picked up by law enforcement. Law enforcement then takes her to a hospital ER or an emergency mental health clinic such as the one I work in, professional evaluates her. If she is determined to be actively suicidal, she is hospitalized non-voluntarily.

 

[Jiro]

What is Sexual Assault? // Office of Student Affairs

The University's Sexual Assault and Sexual Misconduct Policy.

How to report sexual misconduct
The University encourages students to report all incidents of sexual
assault to the police. If the incident occurred on Notre Dame property,
Notre Dame Security Police is the appropriate agency. Off-campus
incidents will likely fall in the jurisdiction of the South Bend, St.
Joseph County or Mishawaka police departments; Notre Dame
Security Police can assist with contacting the appropriate agency.
Notre Dame Security Police can be reached by dialing 911 or (574)
631-5555. Incidents of sexual misconduct involving students that are
reported to the Notre Dame Security Police are referred to the Office
of Student Affairs for follow-up.
Sexual misconduct involving students, including sexual assaults
whether or not they have been reported to a police agency, may also
be reported to the Office of Student Affairs or the Office of Residence
Life and Housing. The Office of Student Affairs can be reached by
dialing (574) 631-5550 and the Office of Residence Life and Housing
can be reached at (574) 631-5551.
A student can also file a report of sexual misconduct by another
student with one of the University’s Sexual Assault Resource Persons,
who will forward the report to the Office of Student Affairs. The
Sexual Assault Resource Persons can help inform victims about the
processes, procedures, and policies that apply in sexual misconduct
cases. Other services provided by the Sexual Assault Resource Persons
include making referrals as appropriate, furnishing materials for support services on and off campus, and providing information on civil
and criminal investigation and adjudication processes. Students can
make direct contact with the Sexual Assault Resource Persons by
calling (574) 631-7728.
For more information about reporting sexual misconduct and
sexual assault, please visit csap. nd.edu.

Privacy and confidentiality
As stated above, the University encourages the reporting of all incidents of sexual assault. To the extent possible, the University will
protect the privacy of all parties to a complaint of sexual misconduct.
Under federal law, if a student makes a formal report about a sexual
assault to a University official (e.g., officials within Student Affairs,
Sexual Assault Resource Persons, deans, campus security personnel,
and certain other administrators with supervisory responsibilities),
the University has an obligation to investigate the complaint. If the University receives a formal report, it will be treated in a confidential
manner. At the same time, information will be shared as necessary in
the course of an investigation with people who need to know such as
investigators, witnesses, and the accused.
When the University, through a report to a University official,
becomes aware of an incident of sexual assault that occurred on-campus
and there is a potential for bodily harm or danger to members of the
campus community, University administrators must issue a timely
warning to the campus. While the University will provide enough
information to safeguard the campus community, a student’s name
or other personally identifying information will not be disclosed.
Under Indiana law, if a student wishes the details of an incident
to be kept strictly confidential, she or he can speak with counselors
at the University Counseling Center, health providers, or off-campus
rape crisis resources, such as S-O-S, the rape crisis center for St.
Joseph County. Residence hall Rectors and campus ministers will
also honor a student’s request for confidentiality. These individuals
will honor confidentiality unless there is an imminent danger to the student or to others.

Resources for Medical, Counseling and Pastoral Care
It is especially important for students who have been sexually
assaulted to seek immediate and appropriate medical treatment.
University Health Services is open 24 hours a day during the academic
year and is equipped to provide confidential and professional medical
care. University Health Services (UHS) can be reached in St. Liam Hall,
(574) 631-7567 (24 hours). While the UHS staff is unable to perform
procedures related to the collection of evidence for the purposes of
pursuing criminal prosecution, they can provide assistance and support
when a student requests or requires transportation to the hospital. St.
Joseph’s Regional Medical Center has a specially trained sexual assault
team available 24 hours a day, seven days a week; Memorial Hospital
also offers these services. Under Indiana law, the tests and procedures
at the hospital are free of charge if treatment is sought within 96
hours of the assault. Emergency Room staff may ask if the student
wishes to speak to the police; this decision is up to the student.
The University Counseling Center is staffed by trained professionals
who can provide specialized support and assistance to students who
have been assaulted. Current students may seek counseling at any
time, whether it is days, months or years after the incident. The confidential services of the UCC are available to the student who was
assaulted and her or his friends who may need support in assisting
the student. The Counseling Center can be reached at (574) 631-7336
(24 hours); in addition, a Walk-In Crisis Service is available in St.
Liam Hall, Monday-Friday, 9 a.m. – 5 p.m. For further information,
go to ucc.nd.edu.
S-O-S is the rape-crisis center for St. Joseph County. S-O-S is
staffed by trained professionals and volunteer advocates who are
available 24 hours a day. The staff can provide confidential counseling
and recovery services, as well as support and information about
communication with the police, family and friends. S-O-S Volunteer
Advocates provide emotional support and information on the phone
and in person at area hospital Emergency Departments around the
clock. Specially trained professionals offer confidential counseling,
group therapy, information, and referrals. The S-O-S Advocate acts as
a liaison between the student and the legal process, and can accompany them to court, if desired. The 24-hour telephone number for
the Rape Crisis Center is (574) 289-4357.
The Campus Ministry staff is trained to provide confidential
pastoral counseling and support to students who have been sexually
assaulted, or to friends who wish to support and assist them.
Campus Ministry can be reached at (574) 631-7800 or at
campusministry.nd.edu.
A student victim may request assistance with academic matters
or a change in housing. To the extent these requests are reasonable
and can be accommodated, every effort will be made to do so.
For more information about resources, please visit csap.nd.edu.

Disciplinary Process for Sexual Misconduct
If a student chooses to proceed with a disciplinary complaint, he or
she will prepare a written report of the incident, and the student’s
role within the disciplinary process will be that of a “complainant.”
In some instances, the University may, in its discretion, choose to
initiate a disciplinary complaint on its own. The University may ask
ORLH, NDSP, or a designee to conduct further investigation before
proceeding with the disciplinary process in some cases.
An accused student will be informed of the nature of the charges
by ORLH, and may, in instances where there is a student complainant,
obtain a copy of the complainant’s written statement after preparing
his or her own written description of the incident. In turn, the
accused student’s written description will be shared with the student
complainant, if any.
Reports of sexual misconduct by a student shall be addressed
through the University’s student disciplinary process which is
described in further detail at page 124, except that, for matters
alleging sexual misconduct the complainant:
• will have the opportunity to be present throughout the
entire Disciplinary Conference or Disciplinary Hearing;
• will be entitled to the same opportunity to have others
present during a Disciplinary Conference or Disciplinary
Hearing as is provided to the accused student; and
• shall be informed of the outcome of the Disciplinary
Conference or Disciplinary Hearing conducted in
connection with his or her complaint.
During the Disciplinary Conference or Disciplinary Hearing, testimony
regarding any party’s past sexual conduct will ordinarily not be
permitted, except in those instances where there was a prior sexual
relationship between the parties and the testimony may be relevant
to the issue of consent. If the accused student is found responsible
for the conduct alleged in the complaint, his or her past sexual
misconduct, if any, may be considered in determining the
appropriate sanction.

 

[jillio]

True. I once accompanied a friend who was a rape victim to trial, and I was livid, absolutely shaking in rage at some of the questions they asked her.

Agreed. That is why sex crimes are rarely prosecuted unless the state takes over.

 

[Jiro]

Notre Dame Security Police Department

The University of Notre Dame Security Police Department, located in Hammes Mowbray Hall just east of the Power Plant, is fully authorized as a police agency by the State of Indiana. The department employs both sworn police officers and non-sworn security officers who patrol campus and respond to emergencies. Additional staff members work as security monitors or in other support positions in the department. Notre Dame police officers complete state mandated training requirements established for law enforcement officers and have the same legal authority as any other police officer in Indiana.

Notre Dame Security Police staff frequently work with city, county, state and federal law enforcement authorities. Agencies cooperate whenever possible on investigations and crime prevention programs to provide the best possible police services to our campus and local communities.

Notre Dame Security Police staff offer an array of other services for the community. When you don’t know who to call, feel free to contact us for assistance.**

 

[Beowulf]

Parents go to probate court, tell a judge their daughter is suicidal and will not get help voluntarily, judge issues an order for her to be picked up by law enforcement. Law enforcement then takes her to a hospital ER or an emergency mental health clinic such as the one I work in, professional evaluates her. If she is determined to be actively suicidal, she is hospitalized non-voluntarily.

I would like to point out that the last thing a rape victim wants to hear is a man's voice. You know.

 

[nobody456]

Yiz, why should this player sit out/be punished?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I would like to point out that the last thing a rape victim wants to hear is a man's voice. You know.

Admittedly, that's true.

But, the victim (God, I hate that word), doesn't have a choice in who sits on the case. It's the job of the counselor to prepare the person so that they can handle the proceedings. I admit that I would find this process very difficult (and at the risk of getting too personal, my abusers were never prosecuted so I have some sense of what this girl felt).

But, that's also part of the problem. I know that if we want things to change in this country, perps need to be brought to justice. I can now honestly tell you that I'm strong enough NOW to go through the legal process, but, my abusers are both deceased. My situation is also different as it was within the family. Anyway, as someone who's gone down a similar path, I can see every side to this, and, it does no good to remain silent. It keeps you in a victim role. If I had to do things over again, I would have gotten help sooner, and, I might have taken my abusers to court.

 

[jillio]

I would like to point out that the last thing a rape victim wants to hear is a man's voice. You know.

Which is why Rape Crisis teams are all female. The one I work with even uses SANE nurses....sexual assault nurse examiners. They do all of the physical exam and evidence collection so as not to further traumatize the victim. Additionally, I personally have run male police officers to the waiting room when I arrive at the ER and tell them that they will wait until I assess the emotional condition of the victim, and they will not question her unless I am present. Crisis teams are granted that authority. If it is child, a specially trained pediatric sexual assault counselor is the only one permitted to do the questioning.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Which is why Rape Crisis teams are all female. The one I work with even uses SANE nurses....sexual assault nurse examiners. They do all of the physical exam and evidence collection so as not to further traumatize the victim. Additionally, I personally have run male police officers to the waiting room when I arrive at the ER and tell them that they will wait until I assess the emotional condition of the victim, and they will not question her unless I am present. Crisis teams are granted that authority. If it is child, a specially trained pediatric sexual assault counselor is the only one permitted to do the questioning.

What about in the courtroom (should a case go that far)? Can a request be made for a female judge? Again, I go back to counseling... The person in question needs to be able to handle this process. I believe one reason sex crimes is so under reported is because the girl just isn't able to withstand the scrutiny she will undoubtedly face. It's such a sad, sad situation.... But, at some point, the girl is going to have a face a man. Is it completely avoidable. I don't know...

 

[jillio]

What about in the courtroom (should a case go that far)? Can a request be made for a female judge? Again, I go back to counseling... The person in question needs to be able to handle this process. I believe one reason sex crimes is so under reported is because the girl just isn't able to withstand the scrutiny she will undoubtedly face. It's such a sad, sad situation.... But, at some point, the girl is going to have a face a man. Is it completely avoidable. I don't know...

Trial is a long way off from the actual occurrance of the event in the majority of cases. One of the goals of rape counseling is to prepare the victim for what will be faced in the courtroom. I suppose a request for a female judge could be made, but probably not honored. However, the victim can have an advocate with her every step of the way.

 

[Dixie]

I would like to point out that the last thing a rape victim wants to hear is a man's voice. You know.

They can send out female officers and have her evaluated by a female health professional.

 

[yizuman]

Yiz, why should this player sit out/be punished?

Oh so it's a big plus that he got some.....by force. Right?

I can't believe you even asked that question....like it's no big deal that he raped someone, right? It's like she asked for it, right?

Yiz