Speaking and signing called key to richer life

[faire_jour]

To be perfectly honest, I'm unsure as to why Grendel keeps attacking me. She seems to get extremely upset when I correct one of FJ's misinformation posts. Or when I post something about deaf/hh kids that is generally well known in the professional field. Check out some of the posts I am responding to. I am, quite simply, defending myself against her attacks. But yes, I think Grendel is a bit unrealistic in both her assessments of her daughter's progress and what the future holds for her daughter, and is overly sensitive to anything that suggests her daughter may encounter many stumbling blocks and adjustment issues. But hey, a lot of parents refuse to see that their child is not the most unique child in the world. But chances are greater that a deaf child will encounter the same things that I see deaf kids going through for the last 20 years, simply because of the attitude of "my kid will be different" than the chance that she will be one of the few phenominal poster kids.

And we both know that kids that perform on par with hearing peers at kindergarten and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade begin to fall behind at about 4th grade and the gap widens as they get older. Social issues don't even become evident until 10-12 years of age.

Unfortunatly, when our children are finally grown up, everyone here WILL claim that they are the exception, because they turn out well. It will be the same garbage that everyone claims about successful CI kids now (like Rick's daughter). How many kids can possible be "the exception"?

 

[jillio]

Yes, YOU don't. But the point is that there are deaf people who support parental choice and listening and spoken language programs.

One can support the concept of parental choice, and still know that the choice made is most likely not the one that will provide the greatest benefit for the child.

And you certainly don't find the extremists here. Lord, you should have been around when a certain extremist was a member here. She would have chewed you up and spit you out. You have no idea.

 

[jillio]

Unfortunatly, when our children are finally grown up, everyone here WILL claim that they are the exception, because they turn out well. It will be the same garbage that everyone claims about successful CI kids now (like Rick's daughter). How many kids can possible be "the exception"?

Where did you purchase that crystal ball?

And kids who survive an oral only educational placement without scars and issues are extremely rare. You are hedging your bets, and the numbers are not on your side. Statistically, these kids are what is known as outliers. So few as to not even be able to alter the numbers.

 

[AlleyCat]

Unfortunatly, when our children are finally grown up, everyone here WILL claim that they are the exception, because they turn out well. It will be the same garbage that everyone claims about successful CI kids now (like Rick's daughter). How many kids can possible be "the exception"?

Why not a lot? That's why we hate having stats thrown at us. We would LOVE to have your kids be another exception. We only want the best for your kids and all other deaf kids out there. We don't want them limited in any way.

 

[jillio]

Why not a lot? That's why we hate having stats thrown at us. We would LOVE to have your kids be another exception. We only want the best for your kids and all other deaf kids out there. We don't want them limited in any way.

We would cheer their successes. But the chances of any child being the exception is slim. I personally don't think it is worth the risk. And if they do end up being the exception, having a full tool box will allow them to be the best exception there is.

 

[faire_jour]

Why not a lot? That's why we hate having stats thrown at us. We would LOVE to have your kids be another exception. We only want the best for your kids and all other deaf kids out there. We don't want them limited in any way.

But my point is, when it is so many kids, it's not the exception anymore.

Unfortunatly, there are always going to be kids with bad parents, bad starts, and that end up with bad outcomes. That is just a fact of life. (There are plenty of hearing kids with terrible stories too.) But that doesn't mean that you should tell the involved parents that they are wrong, and that their kids are going to end up with severe issues because of it.

 

[GrendelQ]

To be perfectly honest, I'm unsure as to why Grendel keeps attacking me.

Poor, poor victimized Jillio. It must be terrible to have someone drop in out of the blue and proclaim that you are discounting deaf experiences and baselessly claim you are an audist. Brutal attack. Oh, wait -- that's not what happened to you, is it? That's what you did to me...

Again, you are discounting the experiences of the deaf in favor of what the hearing want to believe. The very definition of audist.

Frankly, I have no idea why you are even present here.

 

[faire_jour]

We would cheer their successes. But the chances of any child being the exception is slim. I personally don't think it is worth the risk. And if they do end up being the exception, having a full tool box will allow them to be the best exception there is.

But that isn't what you want. Both Grendel and I are giving our children ASL and spoken language but DAILY you insult us and call us audists.

 

[jillio]

Poor, poor victimized Jillio. It must be terrible to have someone drop in out of the blue and proclaim that you are discounting deaf experiences and baselessly claim you are an audist. Brutal attack. Oh, wait -- that's not what happened to you, is it? That's what you did to me...

Get over yourself, angry woman. On second thought, keep posting. Your colors become more evident with each and every one.

 

[AlleyCat]

We would cheer their successes. But the chances of any child being the exception is slim. I personally don't think it is worth the risk. And if they do end up being the exception, having a full tool box will allow them to be the best exception there is.

You're absolutely right. One thing I want to say, though, is that I don't think my parents were "taking a risk". I think they went in blind. I feel comfortable saying that because every time I asked for a change (in schools, teachers, interpreters, etc., I always got told "no".) To this day, as an adult who is educated, has street smarts, has common sense, I think my parents were making those "no" decisions based on lack of any other knowledge of programs or resources, or what to do with me. But, having a full toolbox I think is what did me best in the end.

 

[jillio]

But that isn't what you want. Both Grendel and I are giving our children ASL and spoken language but DAILY you insult us and call us audists.

You really need to stop telling me what I want. You have virtually no idea what I want. You misread and misinterpret every single post I make, and all here see it. You and Grendel are terribly defensive and quick to anger when reality slaps you in the face.

You value spoken language over signed language. Your decisions are indicative of the fact that you believe that hearing makes one more valuable than not hearing. Audism is based on that belief. You can provide ASL and still be audist. You simply do not understand the meaning of audism.

 

[faire_jour]

You really need to stop telling me what I want. You have virtually no idea what I want. You misread and misinterpret every single post I make, and all here see it. You and Grendel are terribly defensive and quick to anger when reality slaps you in the face.

You value spoken language over signed language. Your decisions are indicative of the fact that you believe that hearing makes one more valuable than not hearing. Audism is based on that belief. You can provide ASL and still be audist. You simply do not understand the meaning of audism.

No, when get angry when you call us names.

And you have no idea what I understand, you simply can't.

 

[posts from hell]

No, when get angry when you call us names.

And you have no idea what I understand, you simply can't.

in all fairness - i think youre an audist.

especially after making that ridiculous post where you said the deaf lack english skills just because they are deaf.... :smh:

 

[faire_jour]

in all fairness - i think youre an audist.

I don't care what you think. I think many things about you that would earn me another ban.

 

[posts from hell]

I don't care what you think. I think many things about you that would earn me another ban.

Youre one of few then.

 

[faire_jour]

in all fairness - i think youre an audist.

especially after making that ridiculous post where you said the deaf lack english skills just because they are deaf.... :smh:

That's not what I said and I am sick and tired of you lying about it.

 

[jillio]

You're absolutely right. One thing I want to say, though, is that I don't think my parents were "taking a risk". I think they went in blind. I feel comfortable saying that because every time I asked for a change (in schools, teachers, interpreters, etc., I always got told "no".) To this day, as an adult who is educated, has street smarts, has common sense, I think my parents were making those "no" decisions based on lack of any other knowledge of programs or resources, or what to do with me. But, having a full toolbox I think is what did me best in the end.

Oh, absolutely. Your parents did not have the information that is available today. They did not have the advantage of having a forum like this that has deaf people willing to share their experiences in order to prevent another deaf child from going through what they went through. And I have no doubt that the full tool box was to your advantage.

What concerns me is that there are still those who have the advantages your parents did not have and still poo-poo the information in favor of wishful thinking.

 

[posts from hell]

That's not what I said and I am sick and tired of you lying about it.

Nope, that was what you said. 30 others saw it too.

 

[jillio]

No, when get angry when you call us names.

And you have no idea what I understand, you simply can't.

I don't call names. Again with your misinterpretations based on your own insecurities. I said your attitude is audist. That is no where close to calling you a name. BTW: when I call you a name, there will be no doubt on any front that you have been called a name.

 

[shel90]

One can support the concept of parental choice, and still know that the choice made is most likely not the one that will provide the greatest benefit for the child.

And you certainly don't find the extremists here. Lord, you should have been around when a certain extremist was a member here. She would have chewed you up and spit you out. You have no idea.

Sweetmind?