Speaking and signing called key to richer life

[deafgal001]

I am not going to post their information here, but anyone can feel free to contact the schools and ask. I don't feel comfortable sharing their names because I am concerned that they will get attacked by extremists. There are factions of the Deaf community who think it is appropriate to email hate mail and threats to people they disagree with and protest against oral schools, in front of the schools. I refuse to aid them in harassing these people.

I think that is reasonable.

then don't mention them. If they want to be open about it, let them.

 

[GrendelQ]

Then stop bringing them into the conversation.

It is obvious that you don't care what anyone's credentials are. You are not interested in giving credence to what anyone has to say if it conflicts with the ideas that you have. I wish we all could learn everything there is to know in the matter of a few short months. You must be an amazing person to be able to accomplish that.

Jillio, nice little twist: it is YOU who keep challenging people to justify their rights to be here -- claiming that we don't have the credentials to engage in the discourse. And it is not the credence of 'deaf people' I question, but yours, that of just another hearing mother of a deaf child participating on this board.

You may have several like-minded cronies who also object to those who value both ASL and spoken language equally, but you certainly don't represent all who are deaf, and you don't represent an objective perspective on deaf views. You don't determine who posts here, who is 'deaf enough' to participate, and your trigger-happy use of the term 'audist' to cover your own oppression of the deaf -- those who don't subscribe to your narrow and dated views -- is offensive.

 

[jillio]

then don't mention them. If they want to be open about it, let them.

There you go. I get tired of all these phantom people being used as a support tactic.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

I wouldn't be surprised if it has happened!

Of course you wouldn't. Deaf people are all uncouth savages.

not at all. But there certainly are some. There is a deaf blogger who said that he hoped that ci kids would end up brain damaged so that the asl kids would be smarter and parents would stop implanting kids.

to me, that kind of sentiment (along with the act of protesting in front of oral schools) is extremist and way over the line.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

then don't mention them. If they want to be open about it, let them.

There you go. I get tired of all these phantom people being used as a support tactic.

are you really demanding that i "name names"? Do you actually believe that there are no deaf people who support spoken language? What about the last two presidents of ag bell? They were both deaf since birth. Do they not count as deaf people?

 

[deafgal001]

Wirelessly posted



are you really demanding that i "name names"? Do you actually believe that there are no deaf people who support spoken language? What about the last two presidents of ag bell? They were both deaf since birth. Do they not count as deaf people?

you just need to back your source. Those deaf people can step up and tell us themselves. and yes AGBELL deaf can count. just not people you personally know

 

[Banjo]

Wirelessly posted

are you really demanding that i "name names"? Do you actually believe that there are no deaf people who support spoken language? What about the last two presidents of ag bell? They were both deaf since birth. Do they not count as deaf people?

What I would like to know is why people are supporting an organization named after a man who advocated eugenics? They should just rename the organization to something else with no link to eugenics.

 

[Jiro]

Hmmmm, haven't thought about it before. I think they should have to meet the same standards in academics and English, but mandating one methodology over another....I don't think I am comfortable with that. But, on the other hand, I think that if they did mandate one, I think private programs supporting the others would pop up and those kids would still use the other methods.

so you're comfortable with the way mainstream is since they have all same standard? (quality of standard varies, of course)

 

[Jiro]

I even know three teachers of the deaf who are deaf and advocate for spoken language.

And aren't YOU disrespecting their perspectives?

so do you agree with their perspectives? would you like your daughter to be taught by them?

 

[deafgal001]

FYI, There's plenty of us who are for spoken language too.

 

[shel90]

FYI, There's plenty of us who are for spoken language too.

Yep...we dont support ORAL-only.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



not at all. But there certainly are some. There is a deaf blogger who said that he hoped that ci kids would end up brain damaged so that the asl kids would be smarter and parents would stop implanting kids.

to me, that kind of sentiment (along with the act of protesting in front of oral schools) is extremist and way over the line.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



are you really demanding that i "name names"? Do you actually believe that there are no deaf people who support spoken language? What about the last two presidents of ag bell? They were both deaf since birth. Do they not count as deaf people?

Who doesn't support spoken language as a useful tool for the deaf? I don't see anyone around here.

 

[jillio]

FYI, There's plenty of us who are for spoken language too.

Exactly. I have no idea where that keeps coming from. No one here is against a deaf child having spoken language as part of the tool box.

 

[Bottesini]

Wirelessly posted



not at all. But there certainly are some. There is a deaf blogger who said that he hoped that ci kids would end up brain damaged so that the asl kids would be smarter and parents would stop implanting kids.

to me, that kind of sentiment (along with the act of protesting in front of oral schools) is extremist and way over the line.

Well it is to everybody who is sane.

 

[jillio]

Yep...we dont support ORAL-only.

First we're anti CI and now we are against a deaf child having spoken language skills. This is getting downright comical.

 

[jillio]

Well it is to everybody who is sane.

No doubt. But the fact is there are extremists on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[deafdyke]

My daughter doesn't struggle to lipread when people are speaking -- she hears without lipreading (there are no lips in sight when she has conversations on phones, when she listens to music/the radio, or watches cartoons) and understands with lipreading (when people talk to her while her CIs are off)

Ummmm actually she is prolly lipreading when she is watching cartoons. Unless of course, she is watching dubbed anime. Also, the other situtions aren't exactly representive of typical talking. Music and radio= people who have been trained to talk (did you know that dhh kids learn the same vocal techniques as singers, and actors with vocal modulation and all that? In elementary school, my speech therapist and I would practice class plays.) and most people tend to subconsciously modify their speech patterns when they are interacting with dhh people. Many people do not do that thou. Which is why even hoh folks have trouble talking with a person off the street.
jillo, I'm really confused as to why you're bashing Grendel. She does seem to have a realistic handle on bringing up her daughter with both spoken English and ASL. Or do you think that Grendel is one of those parents who is ooooing and ahhing over spoken language that is in actuality REALLY far behind where she should be? It does sound like Li Li is doing extremely well.......(and that is WITHOUT intense spoken language therapy a la auditory verbal or auditory oral classes)
It is possible that Li-Li may have a decent grasp on spoken language, and there's not a huge gap (even a mildly hoh style gap) that will become more obvious when she gets older and encounters more complicated language. The presense of that gap is why there are still public oral graded programs, as well as graded programs at Clarke, CID, Moog etc. Even hoh kids have that spoken language gap. However, some hoh kids don't. It's possible that Li Li is one of them. Which is AWESOME! I know I didn't have a HUGE spoken language gap (except in preschool or kindergarten)
On the other hand, I did (and still do) have issues with volumne, pitch, articualtion etc as well as pragmatic language abilty. Many dhh as kids do.

One is late deafened and works at USDB. One uses ASL and works at JTC and the third is at CID.

Ummm well first of all, late deafened people have different issues then do people who are dhh as kids. So? There were deaf teachers who were pro oral only in the 1960's. Remember that teacher at the Jane Brooks School in Deaf Like Me?
I think that many of them assume that dhh kids cannot get good spoken language therapy at a Deaf school. They still have it stuck in their head that Deaf Schools are all voice off ASL only Deaf seperatist paradises.

 

[faire_jour]

Yep...we dont support ORAL-only.

Yes, YOU don't. But the point is that there are deaf people who support parental choice and listening and spoken language programs.

 

[jillio]

Ummmm actually she is prolly lipreading when she is watching cartoons. Unless of course, she is watching dubbed anime. Also, the other situtions aren't exactly representive of typical talking. Music and radio= people who have been trained to talk (did you know that dhh kids learn the same vocal techniques as singers, and actors with vocal modulation and all that? In elementary school, my speech therapist and I would practice class plays.) and most people tend to subconsciously modify their speech patterns when they are interacting with dhh people. Many people do not do that thou. Which is why even hoh folks have trouble talking with a person off the street.
jillo, I'm really confused as to why you're bashing Grendel. She does seem to have a realistic handle on bringing up her daughter with both spoken English and ASL. Or do you think that Grendel is one of those parents who is ooooing and ahhing over spoken language that is in actuality REALLY far behind where she should be? It does sound like Li Li is doing extremely well.......(and that is WITHOUT intense spoken language therapy a la auditory verbal or auditory oral classes)
It is possible that Li-Li may have a decent grasp on spoken language, and there's not a huge gap (even a mildly hoh style gap) that will become more obvious when she gets older and encounters more complicated language. The presense of that gap is why there are still public oral graded programs, as well as graded programs at Clarke, CID, Moog etc. Even hoh kids have that spoken language gap. However, some hoh kids don't. It's possible that Li Li is one of them. Which is AWESOME! I know I didn't have a HUGE spoken language gap (except in preschool or kindergarten)
On the other hand, I did (and still do) have issues with volumne, pitch, articualtion etc as well as pragmatic language abilty. Many dhh as kids do.
Ummm well first of all, late deafened people have different issues then do people who are dhh as kids. So? There were deaf teachers who were pro oral only in the 1960's. Remember that teacher at the Jane Brooks School in Deaf Like Me?
I think that many of them assume that dhh kids cannot get good spoken language therapy at a Deaf school. They still have it stuck in their head that Deaf Schools are all voice off ASL only Deaf seperatist paradises.

To be perfectly honest, I'm unsure as to why Grendel keeps attacking me. She seems to get extremely upset when I correct one of FJ's misinformation posts. Or when I post something about deaf/hh kids that is generally well known in the professional field. Check out some of the posts I am responding to. I am, quite simply, defending myself against her attacks. But yes, I think Grendel is a bit unrealistic in both her assessments of her daughter's progress and what the future holds for her daughter, and is overly sensitive to anything that suggests her daughter may encounter many stumbling blocks and adjustment issues. But hey, a lot of parents refuse to see that their child is not the most unique child in the world. But chances are greater that a deaf child will encounter the same things that I see deaf kids going through for the last 20 years, simply because of the attitude of "my kid will be different" than the chance that she will be one of the few phenominal poster kids.

And we both know that kids that perform on par with hearing peers at kindergarten and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade begin to fall behind at about 4th grade and the gap widens as they get older. Social issues don't even become evident until 10-12 years of age.