Lies about CI's

[Oceanbreeze]

Have been trying to give the benefit of the doubt in case someone really wanted to learn, but I do believe that is now an option.

You tried. That's all you can do. You can preach until you're blue, but some just won't get it. Oh well...

I just hope these kids don't suffer too much for it. As I said in another post somewhere else, I'd love to see what these kids are saying about their devices/AVT/ect and so on, in, say, 20 yrs.

 

[GrendelQ]

Oh, please, Grendel. The child has to be exposed to it in order to acquire it. Obviously, you need to spend some time reading a bit about language acquisition.
?

Yes, that is my point. In her "natural" environment, there's no ASL floating about, as there is spoken English (which surrounds her and is accessible to her everywhere she goes). She acquires English incidentally and peripherally, naturally, even though she can do this because of the "unnatural" mechanical tool on her head. We teach her ASL using therapy and directed learning activities because unfortunately it's not native to her everyday environment.

for the tip on reading a bit about language acq. -- I will. Li's picking up a fair bit of Spanish from one of her classmates -- incidentally -- and I'm considering exploring Mandarin with her. Being a relative newcomer to the forum, I won't return the favor and suggest what you need to spend your time doing, as I'm sure lots of people have already told you.

 

[jillio]

You tried. That's all you can do. You can preach until you're blue, but some just won't get it. Oh well...

I just hope these kids don't suffer too much for it. As I said in another post somewhere else, I'd love to see what these kids are saying about their devices/AVT/ect and so on, in, say, 20 yrs.

I would love for some of these parents to hear what these kids say in therapy groups. But, confidentiality forbids it.

 

[GrendelQ]

She is being taught both at this point. However, her ASL instruction, according to Grendel, is concerned with vocab. The most recent unit is in relation to cooking vocab. However, being taught vocab and acquiring language is two very different cognitive processes, and that is where Grendel keeps getting confused.

No, I think you are confused. I hadn't mentioned vocabulary or a cooking unit. My daughter is in a cooking class on Friday mornings, taught by a deaf teacher, in a room with children using only ASL. The subject is cooking, they actually cook, the language in use is ASL, vocabulary, grammar are rolled together.

 

[jillio]

Yes, that is my point. In her "natural" environment, there's no ASL floating about, as there is spoken English (which surrounds her and is accessible to her everywhere she goes). She acquires English incidentally and peripherally, naturally, even though she can do this because of the "unnatural" mechanical tool on her head. We teach her ASL using therapy and directed learning activities because unfortunately it's not native to her everyday environment.

for the tip on reading a bit about language acq. -- I will. Li's picking up a fair bit of Spanish from one of her classmates -- incidentally -- and I'm considering exploring Mandarin with her. Being a relative newcomer to the forum, I won't return the favor and suggest what you need to spend your time doing, as I'm sure lots of people have already told you.

You still don't get it. I truly don't know if it is because you can't or simply because you refuse to accept anything that counters your perspective. But that's okay. Perhaps with time, you will see exactly what we are all talking about. Perhaps not. Your issue, not mine.

 

[kokonut]

Yes, that is my point. In her "natural" environment, there's no ASL floating about, as there is spoken English (which surrounds her and is accessible to her everywhere she goes). She acquires English incidentally and peripherally, naturally, even though she can do this because of the "unnatural" mechanical tool on her head. We teach her ASL using therapy and directed learning activities because unfortunately it's not native to her everyday environment.

for the tip on reading a bit about language acq. -- I will. Li's picking up a fair bit of Spanish from one of her classmates -- incidentally -- and I'm considering exploring Mandarin with her. Being a relative newcomer to the forum, I won't return the favor and suggest what you need to spend your time doing, as I'm sure lots of people have already told you.

Since your daughter wears two CIs, has wearing two helped increased the pace on picking up spoken language, "incidentally and peripherally"? How long for each of the CI has she worn it for each ear? And has she tried using the phone? Is she curious about it? Etc.

 

[jillio]

No, I think you are confused. I hadn't mentioned vocabulary or a cooking unit. My daughter is in a cooking class on Friday mornings, taught by a deaf teacher, in a room with children using only ASL. The subject is cooking, they actually cook, the language in use is ASL, vocabulary, grammar are rolled together.

Do you understand educational methodolgy even the least little bit? I am not confused, but you certainly are. These classes are used to teach vocab.:roll:They use hands on experience because it has been shown that kinesthetic activities increases retention of the vocab being learned. And the class is specific to a certain activity because that is the vocab being concentrated on.

Maybe you need to ask some of the teachers what the purpose of certain activities is.

 

[jillio]

Since your daughter wears two CIs, has wearing two helped increased the pace on picking up spoken language, "incidentally and peripherally"? How long for each of the CI has she worn it for each ear? And has she tried using the phone? Is she curious about it? Etc.

Children with CI don't pick up spoken language incidentally and peripherally. That is why all the follow up therapies are necessary.:roll:

 

[kokonut]

..

 

[GrendelQ]

Children with CI don't pick up language incidentally and peripherally. That is why all the follow up therapies are necessary.:roll:

1. In direct contradiction to this, you have just spent a bit of time arguing that a deaf child CAN pick up ASL incidentally and peripherally. Now you say a deaf child can't pick up a language in this way? Or are you specifying CI children as being unable to do so?

2. You may know some who don't, as do I. But I also know many deaf children with CIs who DO pick up spoken language incidentally and peripherally, including my child.

 

[jillio]

1. In direct contradiction to this, you have just spent a bit of time arguing that a deaf child CAN pick up ASL incidentally and peripherally. Now you say a deaf child can't pick up a language in this way? Or are you specifying CI children as being unable to do so?

2. You may know some who don't, as do I. But I also know many deaf children with CIs who DO pick up spoken language incidentally and peripherally, including my child.

Good Gawd, Grendel...slow down and read. Oh, then why is your daughter getting follow up therapies for her new CI status?

Maybe you just don't understand the meaning of incidental and peripheral learning. If you want clarification, just ask.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I would love for some of these parents to hear what these kids say in therapy groups. But, confidentiality forbids it.

There you go, but yes, confidentiality cuts both ways. Good for the client, but, bad for those who could learn from what's said in those sessions.

 

[jillio]

There you go, but yes, confidentiality cuts both ways. Good for the client, but, bad for those who could learn from what's said in those sessions.

I suspect the parents would still refuse to pay attention, and try to explain it all away. Sad, isn't it? They never once listen, truly listen and consider, what is being said to them. They just dismiss it because it isn't what they want to hear. Like you said, denial is strong.

 

[GrendelQ]

Do you understand educational methodolgy even the least little bit? I am not confused, but you certainly are. These classes are used to teach vocab.:roll:They use hands on experience because it has been shown that kinesthetic activities increases retention of the vocab being learned. And the class is specific to a certain activity because that is the vocab being concentrated on.

Maybe you need to ask some of the teachers what the purpose of certain activities is.

Your need to argue with me about what my child is doing in class is very sad. I hope it's therapeutic for you.

As I said, the purpose in this directed learning class is to develop her use of ASL. You corrected me and said it was a vocabulary unit, and she was not working on acquiring language. I continue to disagree, but if you've had a chance to discuss exactly what being taught in detail with my daughter's teachers, that's just great. It must be wonderful to think you know everything.

The point, though? According to the school, my daughter -- and all of the d/Deaf students in her classes -- require directed learning to develop language. One of their major initiatives this year is to formalize the teaching of ASL in the same way that English is taught as a subject in itself, and at the early ed level, this is being done via small call-out classes of children across different age ranges, providing peer language models to the younger children.

 

[GrendelQ]

Good Gawd, Grendel...slow down and read. Oh, then why is your daughter getting follow up therapies for her new CI status?

She's not. My daughter has never been an AVT participant. She's receiving directed instruction in ASL at a bi-bi school where ASL is the predominant language. Her English is primarily peripheral and incidental in that she learns it in the same manner a hearing child does (although obviously, as a deaf child with CIs, 'hears' very differently).

 

[jillio]

Your need to argue with me about what my child is doing in class is very sad. I hope it's therapeutic for you.

As I said, the purpose in this directed learning class is to develop her use of ASL. You corrected me and said it was a vocabulary unit, and she was not working on acquiring language. I continue to disagree, but if you've had a chance to discuss exactly what being taught in detail with my daughter's teachers, that's just great. It must be wonderful to think you know everything.

The point, though? According to the school, my daughter -- and all of the d/Deaf students in her classes -- require directed learning to develop language. One of their major initiatives this year is to formalize the teaching of ASL in the same way that English is taught as a subject in itself, and at the early ed level, this is being done via small call-out classes of children across different age ranges, providing peer language models to the younger children.

Yes, you do continue to disagree, and each time you do, you support my assertion that you are confused about many things.

Know everything? Not me. That's why I still, after 20+ years, listen to what the deaf people tell me about their experience and what is helpful to them. Know more than most about the areas of cognitive and clinical psychology and educational psychology. Yep, I do. I have the credentials and the experience to back it up. Why are you so threatened by that?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I suspect the parents would still refuse to pay attention, and try to explain it all away. Sad, isn't it? They never once listen, truly listen and consider, what is being said to them. They just dismiss it because it isn't what they want to hear. Like you said, denial is strong.

Case in point:

It is sad. One of my friends' Mom said something directly to her along the lines of ....

"Aren't you glad you can speak?" This was after the Mom was introduced to a voice off friend. My friend defended her voice off friend by saying "She's no different from me."

Mom just stood there stonefaced.

Incidently, I know both of these ladies, and, they BOTH are very accomplished. You don't need spoken language to succeed. Plain and simple.

 

[jillio]

She's not. My daughter has never been an AVT participant. She's receiving directed instruction in ASL at a bi-bi school where ASL is the predominant language. Her English is primarily peripheral and incidental in that she learns it in the same manner a hearing child does (although obviously, as a deaf child with CIs, 'hears' very differently).

AVT is not the only follow up for CI. So, you are saying that following implantation, your child has never attended a speech therapy session nor a session teaching her to use the CI?

And, I can guarantee you that she does not learn spoken English is the same way that a hearing child does. But, that's okay. You just keep believing that. Your child, herself, will one day show you your error.

But then, I suppose it is always possible that your daughter is totally unlike all of the other deaf individuals in brain structure and function.

 

[Mountain Man]

I thought parents were the only source of trouble on AD?

Only source, no. Significant source, yes.

 

[AlleyCat]

That's what I was saying the other day. I don't understand the constant need to disagree with everything we post here. What has become the point of these threads anymore? Many of us have just about stopped posting our own experiences anymore. It's too bad it's come to this.