States Launch Lawsuits Against Health Care Plan

[Steinhauer]

Well, On Liberty got nothing to do with socialism but rather classic liberalism (*coughs*libertarians*coughs*), however when you compare it to Robert Owen's works, the basics of socialism become glaringly obvious-- which is especially helpful because they came about during the same time period.

I will have to brush up on my reading - thanks for the info.

And no, I was not mentioning "On Liberty" because I thought it had to do with socialism. I am aware it has to do with Libertarians.

 

[Foxrac]

It was reported by CNN, and I chose CNN over Fox (Fox says 65%) because CNN is a left leaning media outlet.

I will tell you why 75% oppose this bill.

Because it criminalizes you if you do not purchase health care insurance.


If it did not, and you could "opt-out" then there would not be such opposition.

so remove the mandatory insurance coverage from health care bill would make constitutional?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Yes, trying to explain it to someone who asked what it was

The idea is that the economy should be ran by the workers themselves.

Communism is different though... even I am not sure what Karl Marx is going on about... but nonetheless:

The principles behind market socialist societies is:

- If you pay for someone's education, they will become better workers and thus be able to contribute to society itself once it's time for them to work (hence the whole socialist aspect tied with children's rights during the Industrial Revolution)
- It's better for everyone if the sick to become better so they can get back to work sooner rather than later
- Workers who less hours are more productive and produce better quality products (oppose to cheap crappy products)
- People who live in reasonable accommodations are happier and are healthier than those who are forced to live in run-down dwellings.

Problem is socialism doesn't work in real life once people start re-distributing wealth among the people, businesses and corporates, rather than improving the working conditions. Early socialist ideas were meant to improve the lives of the employees, not the collective mass as a whole.

 

[Steinhauer]

so remove the mandatory insurance coverage from health care bill would make constitutional?

It would be a step in the right direction. Also, allowing people to choose their own premiums and coverage.

There has been no contention between the parties that insurance companies have become corrupt. Republicans and Democrats both see the need to clean the mess up.

The problem is, this Bill is not the answer to the problem, it only makes it worse.

 

[Steinhauer]

The idea is that the economy should be ran by the workers themselves.

Communism is different though... even I am not sure what Karl Marx is going on about... but nonetheless:

The principles behind market socialist societies is:

- If you pay for someone's education, they will become better workers and thus be able to contribute to society itself once it's time for them to work (hence the whole socialist aspect tied with children's rights during the Industrial Revolution)
- It's better for everyone if the sick to become better so they can get back to work sooner rather than later
- Workers who less hours are more productive and produce better quality products (oppose to cheap crappy products)
- People who live in reasonable accommodations are happier and are healthier than those who are forced to live in run-down dwellings.

Problem is socialism doesn't work in real life once people start re-distributing wealth among the people, businesses and corporates, rather than improving the working conditions. Early socialist ideas were meant to improve the lives of the employees, not the collective mass as a whole.

You hit the nail on the head. This is the agenda of the Obama administration.

And ... people are saying "whoa! hold on there a minute ...."

 

[Foxrac]

It would be a step in the right direction. Also, allowing people to choose their own premiums and coverage.

There has been no contention between the parties that insurance companies have become corrupt. Republicans and Democrats both see the need to clean the mess up.

The problem is, this Bill is not the answer to the problem, it only makes it worse.

Oh okay, do you believe that supreme court could kill entire of bill or some part like mandatory insurance coverage to be strike down?

It is kinda hard to predict right now.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

I wonder how long it will take Americans to realize they are not being represented.

Corporations are being represented now. Individual liberty is being stripped away.

No doubt.

I find it shocking that one representative is responsible for 1.5 million Americans.

I honestly think America's too big for its own good, and the only way it can sustain its massive population size without breaking up is increase the number of representatives to representing one for every 500,000 Americans or less.

That and match the salaries of the representatives directly proportional to the living costs of the local community they're representing.

 

[TXgolfer]

No doubt.

I find it shocking that one representative is responsible for 1.5 million Americans.

I honestly think America's too big for its own good, and the only way it can sustain its massive population size without breaking up is increase the number of representatives to representing one for every 500,000 Americans.

That and match the salaries of the representatives directly proportional to the living costs of the local community they're representing.

Interesting

BTW>>>>Totally off topic but I am watching An American Crime right now......geez

 

[Steinhauer]

Oh okay, do you believe that supreme court could kill entire of bill or some part like mandatory insurance coverage to be strike down?

It is kinda hard to predict right now.

When Obama signs this bill, it becomes law.

Do you realize now what they did?

Did you realize that he was going to make average ordinary citizens criminals if they did not purchase health insurance?

 

[Steinhauer]

No doubt.

I find it shocking that one representative is responsible for 1.5 million Americans.

I honestly think America's too big for its own good, and the only way it can sustain its massive population size without breaking up is increase the number of representatives to representing one for every 500,000 Americans or less.

That and match the salaries of the representatives directly proportional to the living costs of the local community they're representing.

I like it!

Great advice from a friendly "neighbor"

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Interesting

BTW>>>>Totally off topic but I am watching An American Crime right now......geez

Not to mention limit how often a representative can be re-elected since apparently there's a 90% re-election rate?

 

[TXgolfer]

Not to mention limit how often a representative can be re-elected since apparently there's a 90% re-election rate?

I have always been for term limits......hard to get the majority to vote for that no matter which side has it......We may actually be close to another Constitutional Convention.....I think that would be great for everyone.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

I like it!

Great advice from a friendly "neighbor"

if the world does thing my way, everyone would be living in tribes or colonies.

Something I have observed from the Anabaptists... when they feel that their community is too big (usually in surplus of 50-100 families or more) and that people are not being completely honest, they split up.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

I like it!

Great advice from a friendly "neighbor"

Only reason why I am glad i am in Canada is...

What's the dealio with you guys only having two major parties?

At least we have four major ones, used to be five, here in Canada.

At least all the far-lefts and socialists join the NDP (New Democratic Party)... leaving only the moderate ones for the Liberal Party.

 

[Steinhauer]

I wonder what the reaction is going to be when Americans realize that the next item on Obama's agenda is granting Amnesty to illegal aliens.


And, I am ever so curious what reactions there will be when Americans realize they will be forced to pay for health insurance for the sole reason that former illegal aliens can receive healthcare.

 

[Steinhauer]

Only reason why I am glad i am in Canada is...

What's the dealio with you guys only having two major parties?

At least we have four major ones, used to be five, here in Canada.

At least all the far-lefts and socialists join the NDP (New Democratic Party)... leaving only the moderate ones for the Liberal Party.

We have more than two parties. The major ones are Democrats and Republicans.

However, even within these parties, there are those to the far right, and those to the far left.

We have the "green" party too. Green Party of the United States | Homepage

Constitution Party - Constitution Party National Political Headquarters

and the Libertarian Party - Libertarian Party | Smaller Government | Lower Taxes | More Freedom

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

We have more than two parties. The major ones are Democrats and Republicans.

However, even within these parties, there are those to the far right, and those to the far left.

We have the "green" party too. Green Party of the United States | Homepage

Constitution Party - Constitution Party National Political Headquarters

and the Libertarian Party - Libertarian Party | Smaller Government | Lower Taxes | More Freedom

We got a lot of other ones too here.

Hence I used the word "major."

 

[Steinhauer]

We got a lot of other ones too here.

Hence I used the word "major."

I sincerely believe that the Republican and Democrat parties have squandered our rights in their quest to hold and maintain power.

Especially in the last 20 years.

 

[deafskeptic]

I wonder how long it will take Americans to realize they are not being represented.

Corporations are being represented now. Individual liberty is being stripped away.

I don't always see eye to eye on things with you but I certainly agree with this one. I stopped voting when I noticed that the Democrats were taking on a corporatist approach to politics.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Only reason why I am glad i am in Canada is...

What's the dealio with you guys only having two major parties?

At least we have four major ones, used to be five, here in Canada.

At least all the far-lefts and socialists join the NDP (New Democratic Party)... leaving only the moderate ones for the Liberal Party.

We have plenty of other parties, they are just not popular, BUT whenever their idea is popular, for some reasons they become included with Republican or democrats. (like instead of Green party, their idea of being green will be part of the democrats politics)

It just seem like Republicans and democrats are parties of ideas opposite of each other no matter what topic is.

Me, I'm a blue-dog democrat and that's a party itself.