The CI for children issue (My POV)

[faire_jour]

To see if they are prepared to enter an academic environment.:roll:

Maybe in your area it's different, but here the kids must know 50 sight words and be able to add and subtract in order to advance to 1st grade. They have homework every night and have tests. I do not see how that is not academics.

I know you seek out ways to argue with me, but this is pointless and derailing the thread, so please move on.

 

[jillio]

Maybe in your area it's different, but here the kids must know 50 sight words and be able to add and subtract in order to advance to 1st grade. They have homework every night and have tests. I do not see how that is not academics.

I know you seek out ways to argue with me, but this is pointless and derailing the thread, so please move on.

Like I said, to determine whether they are ready to enter an academic environment. There are also several assessments of social skills and self help skills they must pass to be determined ready to transition to an academic environment.

Perhaps after you begin study for that educational degree you said you are going back to school to get, you will have a better understanding of the differences and the implications.

Moving on now.

 

[faire_jour]

Like I said, to determine whether they are ready to enter an academic environment. There are also several assessments of social skills and self help skills they must pass to be determined ready to transition to an academic environment.

Perhaps after you begin study for that educational degree you said you are going back to school to get, you will have a better understanding of the differences and the implications.

Moving on now.

In this thread alone you have been the expert on child development, educational curricum, early intervention, lingustics and otolaryngological surgerical procedure, how on earth do you hold degrees in all those things?

 

[jillio]

In this thread alone you have been the expert on child development, educational curricum, early intervention, lingustics and otolaryngological surgerical procedure, how on earth do you hold degrees in all those things?

Nope, shel, sallylou, and lighthouse have all demonstrated a great degree of expertise on the topic, as well. I have 3 degrees, thank you.
And a lifetime of experience in application of the knowledge gained from them.

 

[shel90]

And that is why we are keeping our eyes open and all modes of communication avaliable.

I think middle school is a really hard part. With all the changes, needing to fit in, etc.

We have never ever closed the door to her gpoing back to the bi-bi school. In fact, next year they are hoping to start a high school program, I couldn't be happier! To know that the option of a Deaf high school could be there, easies a lot of worries about the future.

That's great news about the high school.

 

[shel90]

Maybe in your area it's different, but here the kids must know 50 sight words and be able to add and subtract in order to advance to 1st grade. They have homework every night and have tests. I do not see how that is not academics.

I know you seek out ways to argue with me, but this is pointless and derailing the thread, so please move on.

Every child must pass the readiness milestones to enter first grade. I think they vary state to state.

 

[jillio]

Every child must pass the readiness milestones to enter first grade. I think they vary state to state.

Yeppers. Readiness for what? Readiness to enter the academic environment of first grade.

 

[shel90]

In this thread alone you have been the expert on child development, educational curricum, early intervention, lingustics and otolaryngological surgerical procedure, how on earth do you hold degrees in all those things?

In my experience, people who hold PhD's tend to be extremely knowledgeable on a wide variety of subjects. Most people whom I know who hold PhDs tend to read up on a lot of things in their spare time. It is rare for someone who doesnt enjoy reading to obtain a PhD.

 

[faire_jour]

That's great news about the high school.

It really is! They have been struggling with this for several years, and now it looks like it is finally going to hapen. There are so many additional issues with high school (credits, being "highly qualified" in all the different core areas, struggles with electives) that many people thought it would never happen. They have had to mainstream the kids with interpreters up until now. Hopefully the new superintendant keeps his word and keeps this a priority.

 

[jillio]

In my experience, people who hold PhD's tend to be extremely knowledgeable on a wide variety of subjects. Most people whom I know who hold PhDs tend to read up on a lot of things in their spare time. It is rare for someone who doesnt enjoy reading to obtain a PhD.

Thank you.

 

[shel90]

It really is! They have been struggling with this for several years, and now it looks like it is finally going to hapen. There are so many additional issues with high school (credits, being "highly qualified" in all the different core areas, struggles with electives) that many people thought it would never happen. They have had to mainstream the kids with interpreters up until now. Hopefully the new superintendant keeps his word and keeps this a priority.

Keep me posted!

I like the idea of magnet programs where deaf children can take classes at the local high school while taking their core classes at the BiBi program/school.

 

[sallylou]

Thanks for the clarification, Jillio. My eldest when to private school and we handled things privately (expensive!).

I was surprised when my youngest kid's kindergarten teacher told me that the district now had academic milestones for kindergartners. It's the NCLB madness. She even had to test the kindergartners. Really, kindergartens is for socialization and learning readiness. I hate the idea and so did this kindergarten teacher.

Middle school is a nightmare for any parent of any child. I survived that experience with my eldest and lived to tell about it. Like everyone told me, high school is much better!

 

[sallylou]

duplicate post

 

[jillio]

Thanks for the clarification, Jillio. My eldest when to private school and we handled things privately (expensive!).

I was surprised when my youngest kid's kindergarten teacher told me that the district now had academic milestones for kindergartners. It's the NCLB madness. She even had to test the kindergartners. Really, kindergartens is for socialization and learning readiness. I hate the idea and so did this kindergarten teacher.

Middle school is a nightmare for any parent of any child. I survived that experience with my eldest and lived to tell about it. Like everyone told me, high school is much better!

Exactly. The insitution of academic milestones is definately the result of NCLB and "teaching to the test" mentality that has resulted.

I also agree with you that high school is much better in terms of adjustment for students. The middle school years are that hell of in between for so many kids, and especially for a kid that has any kind of difference.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Exactly. The insitution of academic milestones is definately the result of NCLB and "teaching to the test" mentality that has resulted.

I also agree with you that high school is much better in terms of adjustment for students. The middle school years are that hell of in between for so many kids, and especially for a kid that has any kind of difference.

I would have been comfortable with people I grew up with. I wouldn't mind going to middle and high school with them. I only got teased by people who went to a different elementary school than I did. But it got better in high school as people got used to me and they grew more mature.

 

[shel90]

I would have been comfortable with people I grew up with. I wouldn't mind going to middle and high school with them. I only got teased by people who went to a different elementary school than I did. But it got better in high school as people got used to me and they grew more mature.

It was the same for me in high school...however, it still didnt solve all of my problems with lack of access to the curriculm and communication. I was always left behind everwhere..whether it was in social settings or in the classroom.

 

[deafdyke]

The point keeps being ignored that deaf children are exposed to oral language on a consistent and frequent basis without any additional effort. It is all around them in their environment. The question is, is it the best language for instruction when a child is learning complicated concepts in the classroom? Unless it allows for 100% access, then the answer is no. Period.

Yes! As long as they have some formal instruction, they don't need constant speech therapy. They can simply learn by soaking it up. Kids do not need formal schooling/instruction 24/7! Heck....my best friend was unschooled and she's one of the smartest people I know!
And Faire_jour........it's awesome that Miss Kat is doing well orally so far. I think what most of us are trying to say is that it's very common for kids to do decently in the early grades. That does not mean that a kid will develop sophisticated enough oral abilty to continue doing very well. In fact isn't it common for kids with oral abilty/skills to use a 'terp (not an oral 'terp) in school? (b/c it's harder for them to learn in group situtions then it is to learn one on one)
Hearing parents may want their dhh kids to be 100% fluent with no delays with spoken language..............but the question is whether that's possible for all dhh kids, rather then only a small group?
Most kids will be able to develop oral abilty and skills...........but the question is whether they'll be able to function with those skills on a par with hearing people.
Given that even a lot of the academic or oral superstars have social-emoitional pragmatic language issues, I would say it's a rare event that spoken language 100% equalizes dhh kids.
Kat will have the abilty to function OK and it's great that she's doing awesome now....Just be VERY careful in thinking that means sucess down the line, when things get harder.
And shel....that's awesome that there are 20 more new students! Heck that's a BIG number for a lot of schools! Hopefully they'll catch up and do well and their parents will think " Why did we wait so long to enroll them in a deaf school?"

 

[faire_jour]

Yes! As long as they have some formal instruction, they don't need constant speech therapy. They can simply learn by soaking it up. Kids do not need formal schooling/instruction 24/7! Heck....my best friend was unschooled and she's one of the smartest people I know!
And Faire_jour........it's awesome that Miss Kat is doing well orally so far. I think what most of us are trying to say is that it's very common for kids to do decently in the early grades. That does not mean that a kid will develop sophisticated enough oral abilty to continue doing very well. In fact isn't it common for kids with oral abilty/skills to use a 'terp (not an oral 'terp) in school? (b/c it's harder for them to learn in group situtions then it is to learn one on one)
Hearing parents may want their dhh kids to be 100% fluent with no delays with spoken language..............but the question is whether that's possible for all dhh kids, rather then only a small group?
Most kids will be able to develop oral abilty and skills...........but the question is whether they'll be able to function with those skills on a par with hearing people.
Given that even a lot of the academic or oral superstars have social-emoitional pragmatic language issues, I would say it's a rare event that spoken language 100% equalizes dhh kids.
Kat will have the abilty to function OK and it's great that she's doing awesome now....Just be VERY careful in thinking that means sucess down the line, when things get harder.
And shel....that's awesome that there are 20 more new students! Heck that's a BIG number for a lot of schools! Hopefully they'll catch up and do well and their parents will think " Why did we wait so long to enroll them in a deaf school?"

I completely agree. We intend for Miss Kat to always have ASL, and in the mainstream, that would mean an interpreter.

 

[shel90]

Yes! As long as they have some formal instruction, they don't need constant speech therapy. They can simply learn by soaking it up. Kids do not need formal schooling/instruction 24/7! Heck....my best friend was unschooled and she's one of the smartest people I know!
And Faire_jour........it's awesome that Miss Kat is doing well orally so far. I think what most of us are trying to say is that it's very common for kids to do decently in the early grades. That does not mean that a kid will develop sophisticated enough oral abilty to continue doing very well. In fact isn't it common for kids with oral abilty/skills to use a 'terp (not an oral 'terp) in school? (b/c it's harder for them to learn in group situtions then it is to learn one on one)
Hearing parents may want their dhh kids to be 100% fluent with no delays with spoken language..............but the question is whether that's possible for all dhh kids, rather then only a small group?
Most kids will be able to develop oral abilty and skills...........but the question is whether they'll be able to function with those skills on a par with hearing people.
Given that even a lot of the academic or oral superstars have social-emoitional pragmatic language issues, I would say it's a rare event that spoken language 100% equalizes dhh kids.
Kat will have the abilty to function OK and it's great that she's doing awesome now....Just be VERY careful in thinking that means sucess down the line, when things get harder.
And shel....that's awesome that there are 20 more new students! Heck that's a BIG number for a lot of schools! Hopefully they'll catch up and do well and their parents will think " Why did we wait so long to enroll them in a deaf school?"[/QUOTE]


In the 8 years I have worked at the deaf school, I have had parents tell me the exact same thing over and over again. At first, I thought it was cool..now, it is like I ask them "Why dont YOU go out in the community and tell them that! " One parent of a pre-k is alredy going out in one city to advocate for the deaf school and deaf children because her granddaughter is thriving in our program. I think she was the big reason for the 20 plus kids transferring to our program this year. We need MORE parents like her. Deaf people do advocate but as it has been stated before, hearing people tend not to listen to deaf people most of the time.

 

[deafdyke]

Faire_jour...............then we basicly all agree 100% I think most of your defensiveness may be b/c all the reading you've been doing on oral education has tapped some of your anxiety issues. It's OK.......the language they use is very psychologically designed to tap into the anxiety issues. It'll be OK....As long as Kat gets instruction and intervention, she'll do well. It's not like you're doing nothing. I think that the pro oral propaganda is designed to make you think that if you don't make every single mintute into an oral teaching moment, then your kid won't develop well.
Just remember that many of the kids who are doing REALLY REALLY well may be either gifted or from families where overachievement/ overprogramming is the norm. As I said above, it's very rare that oral skills/abilty 100% equalizes a dhh kid. Most kids will have useful oral skills.......which is good.

And that is why we are keeping our eyes open and all modes of communication avaliable.

I think middle school is a really hard part. With all the changes, needing to fit in, etc.

We have never ever closed the door to her gpoing back to the bi-bi school. In fact, next year they are hoping to start a high school program, I couldn't be happier! To know that the option of a Deaf high school could be there, easies a lot of worries about the future.

THAT is AWESOME!!!!! I have to say that I think that most dhh kids need to be carefully monitored. In the mainstream it's like " Oh we'll give you mimimal accomondations and if you don't do well withthose we're gonna condemn you to the Resource Room with those kids who are all " Who's President Obama?"
I am very happy you're openminded in that sense...........wish more hearing parents were...