Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

[Royale]

Liberals seek health-care access for illegals - Washington Times

If the Health Care Reform Act package included with the health care access for illegals is passed, it will dearly cost the Democrats control of the House. IMHO, many Americans do not want to see their tax money used to provide health care access to illegals.

 

[sallylou]

The truth is that the US is providing health care to illegal aliens when they show up in the emergency room. If illegal aliens live in the US, hospitals have to treat life threatening conditions. As it is now, we treat these people in the most expensive way possible.

If you want to prevent this, you have to stop employers from hiring illegal aliens. The reason these people are here is because business owners want them here. Plenty of these business owners are conservative people who want to exploit cheap labor and ignore labor safety issues. Desperate people work cheap in the most deplorable conditions. These people are desperate for work.

I live in Texas and this is not an abstract discussion for me. Parts of my large urban area are like Mexico or Central America. Are you in an area with a large Hispanic population? Have you ever been to Mexico, Guatemala, Columbia or any other Central American country?

 

[Lighthouse77]

well, I can understand where they are coming from. We have to treat them rather they are illegal or not. If they are right there bleeding, you can't just leave them there. BUT the doctors need to be paid for the service they done for them. So really, we are paying American Doctors , not the illegals.

This is why some people want to tighten the border, so people in their own country will start taking care of their needs.

 

[jillio]

The truth is that the US is providing health care to illegal aliens when they show up in the emergency room. If illegal aliens live in the US, hospitals have to treat life threatening conditions. As it is now, we treat these people in the most expensive way possible.

If you want to prevent this, you have to stop employers from hiring illegal aliens. The reason these people are here is because business owners want them here. Plenty of these business owners are conservative people who want to exploit cheap labor and ignore labor safety issues. Desperate people work cheap in the most deplorable conditions. These people are desperate for work.

I live in Texas and this is not an abstract discussion for me. Parts of my large urban area are like Mexico or Central America. Are you in an area with a large Hispanic population? Have you ever been to Mexico, Guatemala, Columbia or any other Central American country?

Exactly. What people need to keep in mind is that the reform bill is intended to provide accessable and low cost insurance to all Americans that will assist in covering their health care costs. That is quite a different concept than access to health care. The uninsured Americans currently have access to health care via emergency rooms, etc. It's just that they do not have insurance, and therefore, their bills largely go unpaid. That results in higher medical costs for insured Americans.

The bill does not provide for health insurance coverage for illegals.

 

[Bramus]

...

Have you ever been to Mexico, Guatemala, Columbia or any other Central American country?

Mexico is a part of N. America.

*Colombia is a S. American country not Central. I would know because I used to go there every year for my summer vacation.

 

[sallylou]

Lighthouse, I agree with you. I understand the border issue well. The border situation is a completely separate issue from health care. I don't want to get bogged down in another issue in the health care context.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Mexico is a part of N. America.

*Colombia is a S. American country not Central. I would know because I used to go there every year for my summer vacation.

Central America is part of North America... Anything north of Colombia is North America. Anything between the U.S. and Colombia is Central America. Either way... doesn't matter: Latin America is what she meant.

 

[sallylou]

Ya'll, I let the geography experts here sort that out.

What I should have said is that we get immigrants here from as far as El Salvador and Honduras. Somehow people with limited means manage to get all the way to Texas by foot and vehicle.

We have some immigrants from Columbia but they tend to be legal immigrants with more wealth.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Ya'll, I let the geography experts here sort that out.

What I should have said is that we get immigrants here from as far as El Salvador and Honduras. Somehow people with limited means manage to get all the way to Texas by foot and vehicle.

We have some immigrants from Columbia but they tend to be legal immigrants with more wealth.

A friend of mine, Ollie, said that busses in Belize and other Central American countries are cheaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Cheaaaaaaaaaaaaap. And that it doesn't take long to reach the Colombian border from the Texas border... maybe a few days drive at the most.

 

[Bramus]

I consider myself fairly Liberal and this is really complicated subject.

I'm 1st generation Colombian and all my family made it here legally(this definitely skews my view on certain local policies such as Wet foot, dry foot, etc.) and we're by no means rich. At the same time I have friend who just received their papers their senior year of high school (07-08).

I do believe that the gov't should pass this reform and provide insurance only to legal citizens--whether born or naturalized--but I don't disagree with basic healthcare that's provided to everyone without insurance-the bleeding person being a perfect example.

Treating them but to not receive payment... In the end, wouldn't that result in the gov't needing to pay more as the prices continue to go up?

 

[sallylou]

Bramus, you're hit the real problem. Skyrocketing prices. Something has to be done to make health care affordable.

 

[jillio]

I consider myself fairly Liberal and this is really complicated subject.

I'm 1st generation Colombian and all my family made it here legally(this definitely skews my view on certain local policies such as Wet foot, dry foot, etc.) and we're by no means rich. At the same time I have friend who just received their papers their senior year of high school (07-08).

I do believe that the gov't should pass this reform and provide insurance only to legal citizens--whether born or naturalized--but I don't disagree with basic healthcare that's provided to everyone without insurance-the bleeding person being a perfect example.

Treating them but to not receive payment... In the end, wouldn't that result in the gov't needing to pay more as the prices continue to go up?

Currently, the illegals receiving treatment in emergency rooms and not paying for care is insignificant when compared to the number of uninsured Americans doing the same. Many of these unisured work 40-50 hours a week, and still cannot afford health insurance, or have an employer that refuses to provide a company sponsored plan. The reform bill would insure coverage for these Americans, thus significantly reducing the number of people forced to receive care in an ER and not pay for it. Ameicans are the largest population receiving ER care for minor illness and catastrophic care that goes unpaid for alike. Providing that population with insurance will reduce the sky rocketing costs associated with health care.

 

[CJB]

Personally--and I might get a lot of grief for this--but I don't think someone should be denied medical care just because they're an illegal citizen. People immigrate to the U.S. for many reasons, and it's not our place to judge them in the E.R. Treat their medical condition and "waste" money on an "illegal," who actually like everyone else, is just as a human being in need of medical attention as any E.R. patient that's an American citizen. I know money is an issue but I think money should try to be saved in other areas.

 

[jillio]

Personally--and I might get a lot of grief for this--but I don't think someone should be denied medical care just because they're an illegal citizen. People immigrate to the U.S. for many reasons, and it's not our place to judge them in the E.R. Treat their medical condition and "waste" money on an "illegal," who actually like everyone else, is just as a human being in need of medical attention as any E.R. patient that's an American citizen. I know money is an issue but I think money should try to be saved in other areas.

That is exactly why they are not turned away from the ER when they show up to receive care. Ethical concerns take precedence over business concerns, as well they should.

 

[CJB]

Currently, the illegals receiving treatment in emergency rooms and not paying for care is insignificant when compared to the number of uninsured Americans doing the same. Many of these unisured work 40-50 hours a week, and still cannot afford health insurance, or have an employer that refuses to provide a company sponsored plan. The reform bill would insure coverage for these Americans, thus significantly reducing the number of people forced to receive care in an ER and not pay for it. Ameicans are the largest population receiving ER care for minor illness and catastrophic care that goes unpaid for alike. Providing that population with insurance will reduce the sky rocketing costs associated with health care.

Excellent point!

In fact, if they're interested in saving money, they should turn down all the patients that go to the E.R. for minor conditions that aren't in need of urgent care. The last time I went to the E.R. the patient next to me was there for a pink eye--not even a severe case, according to the conversation I overheard. There's wasted money.

Another example is that I was admitted to the E.R. against my knowledge and consent once and when I told them I didn't need to be there, they still kept pushing me through the system. I kept refusing but they kept coddling me and telling me "it's going to be all right" like I was a small child. If they had just let me go, they could have saved a lot of money.

Of course later, they charged me a hefty bill, a bill I couldn't pay, might I add. There's wasted money, especially when I shouldn't even have been admitted to begin with. In fact, the doctor even had the nerve to say "Didn't you see the Emergency Room sign?" to which I replied: "Are you blind? Can't you see I'm blind?" I can't blame the individual medical people cause they're just doing what they're told, but there's something flawed with the system if the only way out is to go through all the steps. Another case of wasted money.

 

[webexplorer]

I think that sometimes we have to help illegals no matter what.

In general, a hospital fee is a lot cheaper in Mexico than in our country. They should stay in Mexico, but they are greedy to steal our jobs in America which is obvious for a long time. We need, first, to blame business owners in our country that hired illegals which is somewhat unethical to sweep away American employees. I am tired of Mexicans who cannot read or write in our country. It is a big problem that their Mexican teenagers involved in Mexican gang crimes in our soil that lead our taxpayers to pay for the hospital for them in case they get hurt or stab in their back. Actually, I thought that they have a common sense to create a civil war in their country to fight for their rights and create open free market business legally.

It seems that we rather complain about unnecessary taxes for middle-class than the illegals.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Excellent point!

In fact, if they're interested in saving money, they should turn down all the patients that go to the E.R. for minor conditions that aren't in need of urgent care. The last time I went to the E.R. the patient next to me was there for a pink eye--not even a severe case, according to the conversation I overheard. There's wasted money.

Another example is that I was admitted to the E.R. against my knowledge and consent once and when I told them I didn't need to be there, they still kept pushing me through the system. I kept refusing but they kept coddling me and telling me "it's going to be all right" like I was a small child. If they had just let me go, they could have saved a lot of money.

Of course later, they charged me a hefty bill, a bill I couldn't pay, might I add. There's wasted money, especially when I shouldn't even have been admitted to begin with. In fact, the doctor even had the nerve to say "Didn't you see the Emergency Room sign?" to which I replied: "Are you blind? Can't you see I'm blind?" I can't blame the individual medical people cause they're just doing what they're told, but there's something flawed with the system if the only way out is to go through all the steps. Another case of wasted money.

unfortunately, what seem like a minor problem is a big problem for some. My exbf had a severe case of crohn's disease... and being sick make him dehydrated very easily. He view it as an emergency and I don't blame him. BUT they ended making him wait all night and I felt he could gotten an appointment first thing in the morning and be seen right away. Anyway, I know that some people go to ER because they worry about their job in the morning and can't find a clinic that is open at night. I think hospitals should have a afterhour clinic plus ER combine, so if one is not considered emergency, they still could be seen by a doctor. but ER is already treated as that way.

 

[Beowulf]

That is exactly why they are not turned away from the ER when they show up to receive care. Ethical concerns take precedence over business concerns, as well they should.

Agreed. That applies to certain business practices as well. Does anyone know how hard it is to turn down a starving illegal looking for work? I do.

 

[deafskeptic]

The truth is that the US is providing health care to illegal aliens when they show up in the emergency room. If illegal aliens live in the US, hospitals have to treat life threatening conditions. As it is now, we treat these people in the most expensive way possible.

If you want to prevent this, you have to stop employers from hiring illegal aliens. The reason these people are here is because business owners want them here. Plenty of these business owners are conservative people who want to exploit cheap labor and ignore labor safety issues. Desperate people work cheap in the most deplorable conditions. These people are desperate for work.

I live in Texas and this is not an abstract discussion for me. Parts of my large urban area are like Mexico or Central America. Are you in an area with a large Hispanic population? Have you ever been to Mexico, Guatemala, Columbia or any other Central American country?

I used to live in an area that had a very large Mexican population; the local Domino's even had it's menu printed in Spanish first and then English. I agree with everything you've written. It's not an abstract discussion for me either.

 

[CJB]

unfortunately, what seem like a minor problem is a big problem for some. My exbf had a severe case of crohn's disease... and being sick make him dehydrated very easily. He view it as an emergency and I don't blame him. BUT they ended making him wait all night and I felt he could gotten an appointment first thing in the morning and be seen right away. Anyway, I know that some people go to ER because they worry about their job in the morning and can't find a clinic that is open at night. I think hospitals should have a afterhour clinic plus ER combine, so if one is not considered emergency, they still could be seen by a doctor. but ER is already treated as that way.

I can appreciate what you mean by what may not seem like an emergenyc very well may be. The only reason I said the person's pink eye was not an emergency is because of what I overheard the doctor say. Otherwise I wouldn't know if the person had AIDS or an autoimmune disorder where something like pink eye could really blow up.

I agree that there needs to be a shift in the system itself.

1) There needs to be a way to get out of the E.R. that isn't just going through it for patients that realize they're not in an emergency situation.

2) There should be healthcare options for where you can't wait 3 weeks for an appointment with your doctor, but you also don't need to take up the resources in the E.R. I think doctor's offices should have walk-in hours from 7AM to 9AM or from 5PM to 7PM or something so people can drop in right before or after work. My internist had walk-in hours that I made use of on several occasions.

3) I think when you're in the E.R., there are often a waste of resources just because the whole thing is so procedural. If the system were less routinized then a lot of resources would be saved, and therefore money would also be saved.