TV channel to broadcast assisted suicide

Dreama has one true agenda - to speak out in support of people with severe disability to live. While her agenda is very passionated and noble - her fight is wrong. She's targeting at issues that have nothing to do with her agenda. Dreama spoke out with fervent opinion especially at American policy and we have REPEATEDLY proved her wrong.

For example -

1. the practice of euthanasia on babies with severe disability - Euthanasia is ILLEGAL in USA but not in Europe
2. the practice of abortion on babies with severe disability - Yes it has happened here but it is regulated and it is entirely up to mothers, not government or doctors.
3. family members can request for assisted suicide for people with severe disability or mental illness - Under PAS, ONLY patient can request for it and must be found mentally competent

get it? dreama = noble agenda, wrong fight.
 
Dreama has one true agenda - to speak out in support of people with severe disability to live. While her agenda is very passionated and noble - her fight is wrong. She's targeting at issues that have nothing to do with her agenda. Dreama spoke out with fervent opinion especially at American policy and we have REPEATEDLY proved her wrong.

For example -

1. the practice of euthanasia on babies with severe disability - Euthanasia is ILLEGAL in USA but not in Europe
2. the practice of abortion on babies with severe disability - Yes it has happened here but it is regulated and it is entirely up to mothers, not government or doctors.
3. family members can request for assisted suicide for people with severe disability or mental illness - Under PAS, ONLY patient can request for it and must be found mentally competent

get it? dreama = noble agenda, wrong fight.

She needs to concentrate her fight on changing things in the UK and Europe as a whole. Reminds me of the saying "Don't put your finger in the other porridge until you finish the porridge you have".
 
Dreama has one true agenda - to speak out in support of people with severe disability to live. While her agenda is very passionated and noble - her fight is wrong. She's targeting at issues that have nothing to do with her agenda. Dreama spoke out with fervent opinion especially at American policy and we have REPEATEDLY proved her wrong.

For example -

1. the practice of euthanasia on babies with severe disability - Euthanasia is ILLEGAL in USA but not in Europe
2. the practice of abortion on babies with severe disability - Yes it has happened here but it is regulated and it is entirely up to mothers, not government or doctors.
3. family members can request for assisted suicide for people with severe disability or mental illness - Under PAS, ONLY patient can request for it and must be found mentally competent

get it? dreama = noble agenda, wrong fight.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Jiro!
 
We are not challenging Dreama on her beliefs. We are challenging her on her confusion regarding euthanasia and PAS. We are challenging her on her lack of knowledge regarding the stipulations that must be fulfilled regarding PAS, and the limitations imposed. We are challenging her on her confusion between disability and terminal illness. And we are challenging her on her confusion between support of human rights, and denial of human rights.

human right politics is in as far as i am concerned is BULLSHIT period, it does not hold up to the principles as they proclaimed. it is just another para-legal term to swoon gullible public about what is right or wrong, in other words just another political excercise.

i Do not believe Dreama is confused about anything at all, I believe she was stating from a very stauch pro-life stance, and coupled this with disability rights, (now please DONT confuse this with human rights, as they ARE such disabiloity academics whose are leery of human rights, while on other hand, there also many of those who believes in human rights and have fought long and hard to be included in some form of decision making but fails, not because those advocates/academics failed, it's those policy makers fuckers who failed to listen or even fail to understand this double edged sword nature of philosophy

I can see clearly where Dreama is coming from,

when dreama has said this, "Plus you can't change your mind if someone helps you kill yourself. Sometimes seriously disabled people DO change their minds and were glad that they weren't alowed to die.

If someone who wasn't disabled wanted to kill themselves would you help them? Why should the disabled and terminally ill be any differant. " in this excerpt she meant to start thinking about how arragonce of abled people deciding when to finish off disabled people when they get close to being terminally ill or put other way, deciding how to hasten the death of the terminally ill disabled person (on the thinking they dont want to live' whereas that disabled person have a very real human feelings and emotions which of course they would be frustrated at being treated like an inhuman freak of nature but they are still human AND indeed they have a right to change their mind(s) !!
it is a difficult one to explain, here is another example of this;
as i have said before but i will add on to it, just hopefully provide a better explanation of dreama's position of thinking on this elusive issue.

back on topic, dreama, if someone WANTS to die from the worse case of illness and they get denied that choice to slip away into peace -death- the inevitable, then we are doing the crime against the sick. On the other hand, Disability is a form of sickness in which it stem from a particular kind of maltreatment from society in which they dont let us live to the fullest. However to extend the suffering because 'we tell them when they can die' is cruel as well? it is not? because we assumed they want to die as much as we dont accept them in our society...this is that form of utter arrogance, a total insidious disregard for severely disabled people who DO NOT WANT TO DIE (YET !!!! - hence the NOT DEAD YET title !!!!!)Dreama is against

This is not different because these ruling is based on the premise that they can only do what we assume, that there is one reality, no adjustments, no respect for people to make own choices. If you studied Disability studies this is exactly what 'rights' centres on, now on that account of rights, the right to die is not much different to right to choose how we live? the rights to decide how the most severely impaired people live and die DOES NOT LIE on the decision of abled-bodied people and this is exactly what not-dead-yet people are trying to say is....it is a horrible powerless struggle to stand up and say dont kill us, let us live, and stop pestering into our lives as we are not medical lab rats or medical problems - we are HUMANS too just with a greater degree of imperfection

Also lastly, I think Dreama does know the difference, just hasnt it occured to you that she doesnt give a shit about it, because this doesnt concern her, after all this is the whole point she was making. The whole excercise of "proving her wrong" could well actually show how arrogant d/Deaf people are to other humans with a far greater degree of human imperfection

its like euthanasia /PAS to dreama is the same, that's her point of view , repsect that, also the powers of the mind to perceive this whole thing in a different light is a gift - if you are willing to drop all the righteousness bullshit to the floor. its yours to experience to new 'human experience' and 'a new way of considering what is the value of human life'.

that is all , so up to you stop and take a silence and observe from this angle
i do not know if this post is going to help or compell others to lean over side of the fence for a gentle reckoning, well i hope.

cheers
 
icon14.gif

Kudos, Grummer. I also agree with the last statement, let's hope this doesn't go overboard from here.
 
Come on guys, this is going to turn into another locked topic during the period each contender awaits the next post with bated breath.

Just need to address dreama more politely, she probably felt offended for people not regarding her input seriously - I would too, if I had people ganging up on me that I felt I was an one man army to reply to all that.

She stated that her kin was related to an incident similar to jillio's original news report about assisted suicide, then everyone kind of (no offense) veered offside to disagree with how she handled the situation and how she was actually doing more harm, disprove of the idea she perceived of the PAS. Assisted suicide is an issue of bereavement for the affected to deal with, it is a hard thing for anyone. Challenging them for what they think; especially if what they thought was right - is often not the correct approach.

It's the past, she's moved on from that, perhaps she learned a thing new or two - but keeping up on deliberately railing her with "you are wrong, come on and take this" is only going to cause more retaliation in her defense or personality. In the end, no good will come from the discussion other than perhaps a member withdrawing from the forum or future talk within our already small but growing community. You may be right - but what's the purpose? Just to prove him/her wrong?

Thanks for sticking up for me. I've more or less said what I'm going to on this thread. If they think my dad was lying and my links aren't good enough just because they don't support what they believe, there is nothing I can do about that but I'm not going to waste any more time arguing with them as it's all going round and round in circles. I just hope that others will read my posts with more of an open mind.
 
Thanks for sticking up for me. I've more or less said what I'm going to on this thread. If they think my dad was lying and my links aren't good enough just because they don't support what they believe, there is nothing I can do about that but I'm not going to waste any more time arguing with them as it's all going round and round in circles. I just hope that others will read my posts with more of an open mind.

but you are the one who are going around and around in circles with accusations that have already been disproved by what I've shown you such as the PAS requirements. and I've proved to you that euthanasia is illegal in USA. what more do you need to know?

You are wasting your time arguing with the country that does not do what you thought. Your country and your neighbors are doing it. I hope you get it right this time.......
 
what make you think exaclty that 'the coutry' (america) has EVERY person of the 300+ population in there does not want to do with not-dead-yet. This is a highly erroneous thinking, this is extreme overgeneralising.

Not dead yet may come from UK, but academics and advocates are from abroad, I do know this because I am a Post Graduate Disability Studies student !!
and yes there are such thing as an american flavour as does there is a british slant however in principle and depending on the individuals scholar's thinking, citizenry does not determine what POV does one take. Example of this is like this in the yesturyear when Russia was once a large, powerful communist country it was well known that not every russian believed in communism.

lastly as found in the not dead yet, their big concern are outline SO CLEAR;
Not Dead Yet is a national disability rights group which opposes the legalization of assisted suicide and euthanasia, because of the lethal danger to this nation's largest minority group, people with disabilities.

what this is saying, People with disabilities would be put in high risk of being shoved into a situation which endangers their right to stay alive, " We believe that legalising assisted dying will inevitably lead to increasingly adverse judgements about the quality of life of disabled people. This will undoubtedly begin to affect the many disabled people who cannot speak for themselves and who have not requested death. " look here>> <<Living with Dignity - Not Dead Yet UK Campaign

well my time is frugal i have to make track for the dat, so cheers anyway
 
Not Dead Yet is a national disability rights group which opposes the legalization of assisted suicide and euthanasia, because of the lethal danger to this nation's largest minority group, people with disabilities.

what this is saying, People with disabilities would be put in high risk of being shoved into a situation which endangers their right to stay alive, " We believe that legalising assisted dying will inevitably lead to increasingly adverse judgements about the quality of life of disabled people. This will undoubtedly begin to affect the many disabled people who cannot speak for themselves and who have not requested death. " look here>> <<Living with Dignity - Not Dead Yet UK Campaign

Again.... I have already proved you wrong. Looks like I need to speak louder.

1. Euthanasia is ILLEGAL in USA
2. Nobody CANNOT request for assisted suicide except the patients themselves.
3. Assisted Suicide is NOT for all - you MUST be terminally-ill with 6 months left to live.
4. Patient MUST be mentally-competent and have 6 months left to live to request for assisted suicide.


That is American system but dreama kept saying we do it in USA. Again - I have proved her wrong. See above. "Not Dead Yet's" agenda is OF NO CONCERN to me because we do not do those in America. EUROPE DOES. Like I said previously - NOBLE AGENDA, WRONG FIGHT.

:cool2:
 
Again.... I have already proved you wrong. Looks like I need to speak louder.

1. Euthanasia is ILLEGAL in USA
2. Nobody CANNOT request for assisted suicide except the patients themselves.
3. Assisted Suicide is NOT for all - you MUST be terminally-ill with 6 months left to live.
4. Patient MUST be mentally-competent and have 6 months left to live to request for assisted suicide.


That is American system but dreama kept saying we do it in USA. Again - I have proved her wrong. See above. "Not Dead Yet's" agenda is OF NO CONCERN to me because we do not do those in America. EUROPE DOES. Like I said previously - NOBLE AGENDA, WRONG FIGHT.

:cool2:

I get it. I don't see why others can't understand what you've typed. They've got to step around it with their own "interpretations".
 
just because euthaniasia it is illegal in usa, it doesnt mean it does not happen, and furthermore it does not mean it will be forever illegal, laws do change. besides the point proving dreama wrong about disabilty issues regarding assisted dying is correct as long as it is in terms of abled, ordinary persons, this then changes to be irrelevent when everyone gangs up against her 'noble agenda in the wrong place', after all it could be said, that's interesting Dreama, ok so what does this means for the more severe disabled person, this topic may be treated differently, like perhaps to recognise the potential is there to be abused against the will of disabled people is very real. I believe this is what Dreama is trying to highlight. and yes it is correct euthanasia is illegal, but we shouldnt take it as gospel that this is confirmed answer. yes it is the european concern but all the while usa is not immune to a swing of change.
 
just because euthaniasia it is illegal in usa, it doesnt mean it does not happen, and furthermore it does not mean it will be forever illegal, laws do change. besides the point proving dreama wrong about disabilty issues regarding assisted dying is correct as long as it is in terms of abled, ordinary persons, this then changes to be irrelevent when everyone gangs up against her 'noble agenda in the wrong place', after all it could be said, that's interesting Dreama, ok so what does this means for the more severe disabled person, this topic may be treated differently, like perhaps to recognise the potential is there to be abused against the will of disabled people is very real. I believe this is what Dreama is trying to highlight. and yes it is correct euthanasia is illegal, but we shouldnt take it as gospel that this is confirmed answer. yes it is the european concern but all the while usa is not immune to a swing of change.

Grummer - please read this CAREFULLY. I'm basically repeating myself at least 4x already.

the LAW says euthanasia is illegal and that's the American stance on it. Period. Therefore - dreama has nothing to fight against. Europe legalized euthanasia and that's who she should be fighting against. Any of those who performed euthanasia in America will be caught and prosecuted. As far as I'm concerned.... until America changes its stance and legalize euthanasia... then yes by all means - complain to us.

i don't really understand why you and dreama kept on insisting about possible abuse of forcing assisted suicide on people with severe disability and such. I cannot understand. I've already explained that you need to be mentally-competent by 2 doctors and have less than 6 months left in order to request for assisted suicide. Why would you go thru trouble to "kill" them when they have a few months left? Why risk getting prosecuted for murder/manslaughter/fraud/etc when patient has less than 6 months left to live? 6 months left is not that long to wait. They're not going to live for 6 full months anyway.

???????????????????????

***sorry to sound callous but i'm trying to make a point in here
 
Jiro,

What if dreama doesn't care what you think and they wish to have it their way?
What if her misconception of other countries is wrong, but she does not care?
 
Jiro,

What if dreama doesn't care what you think and they wish to have it their way?
What if her misconception of other countries is wrong, but she does not care?

she has a misconception of one country only... and that's America. ironically - her neighbor country is practicing euthanasia.
 
I would not like to repeat my view on this since you know my POV in my thread few months ago.

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/57544-do-you-support-suicide-assistance.html


Dreama, what would you react IF your Dad ask you to fulfill his wish to get the doctor to end his life due his terminally illness? (I mean, it's NO chance for him to remain alive longer)...

a more accurate question would be - "Dreama - would you fulfill your father's wish to have assisted suicide when he has less than 6 months left to live?"
 
Grummer - please read this CAREFULLY. I'm basically repeating myself at least 4x already.

the LAW says euthanasia is illegal and that's the American stance on it. Period. Therefore - dreama has nothing to fight against. Europe legalized euthanasia and that's who she should be fighting against. Any of those who performed euthanasia in America will be caught and prosecuted. As far as I'm concerned.... until America changes its stance and legalize euthanasia... then yes by all means - complain to us.

i don't really understand why you and dreama kept on insisting about possible abuse of forcing assisted suicide on people with severe disability and such. I cannot understand. I've already explained that you need to be mentally-competent by 2 doctors and have less than 6 months left in order to request for assisted suicide. Why would you go thru trouble to "kill" them when they have a few months left? Why risk getting prosecuted for murder/manslaughter/fraud/etc when patient has less than 6 months left to live? 6 months left is not that long to wait. They're not going to live for 6 full months anyway.

???????????????????????

***sorry to sound callous but i'm trying to make a point in here

:werd:

That is why I have to refrain myself from posting further in this thread - this can easily go out of hand.
 
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